Are There Valid Reasons to Leave the Church?

[consiglieri]

3 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

There is no need for confusion because D&C 76 is in perfect harmony with sections 19, 88, 124, 128, and 138. Section 76 clearly and unambiguously testifies that all, except for the sons of perdition, will receive forgiveness, all will obtain salvation, and all will inherit a mansion in one of the Father's kingdoms of heavenly glory. D&C 76 anticipates and harmonizes perfectly with section 138. Who can deny that section 76 is all about forgiveness in the world to come and salvation for the dead?

Keep studying.

D&C 76 says those who didn't except the gospel because they didn't have the chance go to the terrestrial kingdom.

If memory serves.

[consiglieri]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

This kind of sentiment implies that there is something wrong with those who do find church uplifting even if they've been members for decades. 

I try to stay away from those kind of self centered (the "your obviously wrong because you don't agree with me" type) explanations for problems.

I don't mean to say that you are obviously wrong because you don't agree with me, Bluebell.

Beauty, like inspiration, is in the eye of the beholder.

[consiglieri]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

We had a training meeting with Elder Bednar last year, and in answer to a question about recognising the voice of the Spirit, he noted that it takes much practice, but one of the ways we can begin to identify it is that it usually is telling us that we're wrong about something.

Did he give an example?

[Bobbieaware]

21 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

Keep studying.

D&C 76 says those who didn't except the gospel because they didn't have the chance go to the terrestrial kingdom.

If memory serves.

What chutzpah! You're not even sure D&C 76 says what you"d like to think it says, but you think I'm the one who needs to 'keep studying?' Why don"t you do your own studying and then report back?

By the way, D&C 76 doesn't say those who go to the terrestrial kingdom do so because they didn't have the chance to receive the Gospel in the flesh. What it actually says is that THEY received not the Gospel in the flesh, and therefore died without accepting the Gospel law, because they allowed themselves to be blinded by the craftiness of men. In other words, they were deceived and blinded to the truthfulness of the Gospel by the unholy efforts of the evil men.

[bluebell]

34 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

I don't mean to say that you are obviously wrong because you don't agree with me, Bluebell.

Beauty, like inspiration, is in the eye of the beholder.

If I read sarcasm into your post where none was intended, I apologize.

[consiglieri]

11 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If I read sarcasm into your post where none was intended, I apologize.

It's an occupational hazard with me.

 

[consiglieri]

12 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

What chutzpah! You're not even sure D&C 76 says what you"d like to think it says, but you think I'm the one who needs to 'keep studying?' Why don"t you do your own studying and then report back?

By the way, D&C 76 doesn't say those who go to the terrestrial kingdom do so because they didn't have the chance to receive the Gospel in the flesh. What it actually says is that THEY received not the Gospel in the flesh, and therefore died without accepting the Gospel law, because they allowed themselves to be blinded by the craftiness of men. In other words, they were deceived and blinded to the truthfulness of the Gospel by the unholy efforts of the evil men.

 

Quote

 

D&C 76:71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

 72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

 73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

 74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

 

Keep studying.

 

[Bobbieaware]

37 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

 

Keep studying.

 

You are in error. In order to properly interpret these verses, one must realize there's a cohesive train of thought that doesn't come to completion until the period at the end of verse 74. 

 72 Behold, THESE ARE THEY WHO DIED WITHOUT THE LAW;

 73 And ALSO THEY WHO ARE THE SPIRITS OF ME KEPT IN PRISON,, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

 74 WHO RECEIVED NOT THE TESIMONY OF JESUS IN THE FLESH, but afterwards received it.

 75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men. (D&C 76)

So the reason why the people described died without the law and were kept in the spirit prison because they (of their own will and choice) RECEIVED NOT (remember, there's a big difference between receiving not the Gospel and not having the chance to receive the Gospel) THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IN THE FLESH, but AFTERWARDS RECEIVED IT (of their own free will and choice). Then in verse 75 we learn the reason why those who die without the law and end up in spirit prison is because they allowed themselves to be blinded to the truth by the craftiness of evil men who persuaded them to reject the Gospel message.

Just because you have been misinterpreting these verses the whole of your life doesn't make your faulty interpretation the correct one. 

Edited January 12, 2016 by Bobbieaware

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, consiglieri said:

Did he give an example?

Not a specific one, though he mentioned how he'd repeatedly been corrected by God over the course of his lifetime and told us directly that none one of us in the meeting, himself included, was yet the man the Lord needs him to be. He did warn us specifically about tradition and thinking that we know what the Lord wants just because other people have done it, as well as personal agendas.