Christian Mormon Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 do you think all this is correctly interpreted? Eleven are named in Acts 1:13, “Peter and John, and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew,James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James. “Judas Iscariot, one of the original twelve, the one who betrayed Jesus, is not named in that list.That’s the original twelve.Then add Matthias who replaced Judas Iscariot to become one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb (Acts 1:26). When we include both Judas and Matthias the total is now thirteen.We know additional apostles besides these men exist because Christ, after His ascension, appointed "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of ChristTill we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:(Ephesians 4:11-13). Are we there yet? Have we all attained to the unity of the faith? Or mature manhood? Or the fullness of Christ? Clearly, the apostolic ministry will continue until Christ returns!James, the half brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem church—Galatians 1:19Barnabas-Acts 14:14Paul-Acts 14:14 and many other referencesApollos- Corinthians 4:6-9Timothy and Silvanus- I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6Epaphroditus-Philippians 2:25. While the King James Version translates the word as “messenger”, the Greek word (apostolon) is actually “apostle”.Two unnamed apostles-Second Corinthians 8:23. A brother of fame among the churches,and a brother tested-“As for our brethren, they are messengers of the churches, a glory to Christ.” Again, the Greek word is “apostoloi” but is translated here as “messengers”.These nine now make a total of 22 (13 +9 = 22).Andronicus and Junia-Romans 16:7 “Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note amongthe apostles, who also were in Christ before me.” Were these genuine apostles or were they, as some (Charles Ryrie and others)translate, “well-known to the apostles”? If we count Andronicus and Junia, the total jumps to 24.How Many Apostles?Finally, Hebrews 3:1 designates Jesus Christ the “Apostle and High Priest of our profession.” That makes 25 apostles in the New Testament!
JLHPROF Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Assuming all those named were actually apostles. 1
Popular Post Russell C McGregor Posted November 3, 2015 Popular Post Posted November 3, 2015 do you think all this is correctly interpreted? Eleven are named in Acts 1:13, “Peter and John, and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James. “ Judas Iscariot, one of the original twelve, the one who betrayed Jesus, is not named in that list. That’s the original twelve. Then add Matthias who replaced Judas Iscariot to become one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb (Acts 1:26). When we include both Judas and Matthias the total is now thirteen. We know additional apostles besides these men exist because Christ, after His ascension, appointed "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: (Ephesians 4:11-13). Are we there yet? Have we all attained to the unity of the faith? Or mature manhood? Or the fullness of Christ? Clearly, the apostolic ministry will continue until Christ returns! James, the half brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem church—Galatians 1:19 Barnabas-Acts 14:14 Paul-Acts 14:14 and many other references Apollos- Corinthians 4:6-9 Timothy and Silvanus- I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6 Epaphroditus-Philippians 2:25. While the King James Version translates the word as “messenger”, the Greek word (apostolon) is actually “apostle”. Two unnamed apostles-Second Corinthians 8:23. A brother of fame among the churches, and a brother tested-“As for our brethren, they are messengers of the churches, a glory to Christ.” Again, the Greek word is “apostoloi” but is translated here as “messengers”. These nine now make a total of 22 (13 +9 = 22). Andronicus and Junia-Romans 16:7 “Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.” Were these genuine apostles or were they, as some (Charles Ryrie and others) translate, “well-known to the apostles”? If we count Andronicus and Junia, the total jumps to 24. How Many Apostles? Finally, Hebrews 3:1 designates Jesus Christ the “Apostle and High Priest of our profession.” That makes 25 apostles in the New Testament! One of the problems is that we have English words that are valid translations of Greek words, but are not necessarily cognate with them. Take the Greek word "episkopos." It comes from two Greek elements: "epi" = above, and "skopos" = seeing. This word descends into English by three routes: Via Latin, it becomes "super" and "visor;" through Germanic sources, it's "over" and "seer;" while directly from Greek, it becomes "bishop." So when Bible readers encounter "episkopos" in the texts, does it mean "bishop" as an ecclesiastical title, or is it merely descriptive, of someone who has oversight, or supervises the work in a particular area? The same issue arises with "apostolos." The meaning is "one who is sent." Now it happens that we have other words in English that also mean "one who is sent," including "messenger," "emissary" and "missionary." There is no doubt that the 1st Century Church was a missionary organisation; but the word "missionary" never appears in the English Bible. Perhaps not all of those apostoloi were members of the presiding quorum. Perhaps some of them were simply missionaries. 6
Alan Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 I think some of them were Seventy's. In NT times the Seventy were often referred to as the "Seventy Apostles" In fact, there is a tradition that Paul was in fact a Seventy and was never a member of the Twelve (but I can't remember where I read it). 1
Ahab Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) More evidence that an appeal to the Bible is not enough because of how different sects interpret the words differently.No wonder Joseph Smith needed more wisdom. Edited November 3, 2015 by Ahab
Zakuska Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) +1 Russel C McGregor Another one of those words which gets muddled through translation so we can't tell if its a Title/Office or simply descriptive is found in this verse... JAMES 5:14-15 KJVIs any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. The word there is... Strong's Greek: 4245. πρεσβύτερος (presbuteros) -- elder Which can also be applied to those of the Female Gender. Please note that Paul uses the same word to describe "elder women" in the church in 1 Tim. 5:2. So how in the world can we justify not letting women participate in healing AND anointing blessings if this isn't even referring to the office in the priesthood of "Elder"? More on that translation. https://books.google.com/books?id=_2FYbmwnAiYC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=presbuteras&source=bl&ots=ylfW9jcF_u&sig=O8FI_0cNtu2_ffazrj1gG_47wws&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAmoVChMIptHHl7z1yAIVAdZjCh0jYAK1#v=onepage&q=presbuteras&f=false Edited November 4, 2015 by Zakuska
rpn Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Andronicus and Junia-Romans 16:7 “Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note amongthe apostles, who also were in Christ before me.”Some say that Junia is a woman apostle based on this wording. It can as easily be read as they were known by apostles. And if Junia was a woman, then she could have been Andronicus' wife (which would be more consistent with how "prisoners" would be treated, wouldn't it?
Russell C McGregor Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Some say that Junia is a woman apostle based on this wording. It can as easily be read as they were known by apostles. And if Junia was a woman, then she could have been Andronicus' wife (which would be more consistent with how "prisoners" would be treated, wouldn't it? Yes, I think the most likely scenario is that Andronicus and Junia were something like a "missionary couple."
JLHPROF Posted November 4, 2015 Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Some say that Junia is a woman apostle based on this wording. It can as easily be read as they were known by apostles. And if Junia was a woman, then she could have been Andronicus' wife (which would be more consistent with how "prisoners" would be treated, wouldn't it? "who are of note among the apostles" This either could mean significant apostles, or noted by the apostles.There is no reason to assume Junia was an apostle based on this scripture alone (or even that Junia was a woman all things considered).Or that in this case apostle meant the priesthood office and not one of the other translations of the word - like messenger, disciple, missionary. It's a flimsy case for a female apostle at best, and a complete misapplication at worst. Edited November 4, 2015 by JLHPROF
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