Salvation And Exaltation

[Stargazer]

Same here but I think Cain will not be alone.  I do believe a certain number of apostates will also be joining Cain. 

 

I agree, but I would never presume to identify any by name.  This is in the hands of God, and God alone, and fortunately I don't have to make that judgement.

[Stargazer]

Christ has my heart but I have a messed up brain sometimes that I don't know who has power over my mind.

 

My mission president once told us that we cannot stop the birds from flying above our heads, but we can stop them from building nests in our hair.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Ya I have to rely on the medications of Clonidine, Escitilopram, Lorazepam, and Ziprasidone (an anti-psychotic med) to try and help my mind keeping those birds from nesting in my hair.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I've been told recently that Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial glory aren't necessarily different locations in heaven, but what kind of different bodies we can be resurrected with. Any thoughts on that? That the degrees of glory are about how the light shines from ourselves in the resurrection.

[Tony Frank]

Duplicate Post

Edited October 27, 2015 by Tony Frank

[Tony Frank]

I've been told recently that Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial glory aren't necessarily different locations in heaven, but what kind of different bodies we can be resurrected with. Any thoughts on that? That the degrees of glory are about how the light shines from ourselves in the resurrection.

 

They are three different kingdoms, those of the celestial kingdom can minister to those of the terrestrial kingdom, and those of the terrestrial kingdom can minister to those of the telestial kingdom.

 

And concerning the telestial kingdom, Jesus Christ stated in Doctrine and Covenants 76:112, "And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end," which should tell you they are definitely in different locations.

 

You may be thinking about the telestial kingdom, where people will have differing glories, as explained in D&C 76:98; "And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world."

[Tony Frank]

And I agree entirely with Teancum. For all that he's a bit of an apostate (and a beloved one, at that), you need to understand that you're addrssing a former Bishop who has a good understanding of the Gospel, even if he's become a bit unbelieving as of late. I remember Teancum in this forum when he was a TBM, so I know whereof I speak.

Besides, Tony Frank, I do believe your understanding of the Plan of Salvation is a bit "off". Those sinners who will not repent, and must suffer for their own sins, are the only ones who will see the Telestial Kingdom. Those in the Terrestrial Kingdom will be those who did accept the Savior and are among the beneficiaries of the Atonement, but who were not valiant in the Testimony of Jesus. This will also be the glory of those who heard the Gospel in this life, but did not accept it here, and only do so in the Spirit World. But they still benefit from the Atonement.

 

Let's look to the scriptures and the words of the Prophet Joseph Smith, who puts it all into perspective for us.

 

Doctrine and Covenants 76:79 tells us: "These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God."

 

Doctrine and Covenants 121:29 tells us "All thrones and dominions, principalities and powers shall be revealed and set forth upon all who have endured valiantly for the gospel of Jesus Christ."

 

The Prophet Joseph Smith stated, “The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.”

 

According to the law, we must endure valiantly for the gospel of Jesus Christ in order to receive eternal life. The alternative to eternal life is "the deaths," which the following scriptures from D&C 132 show.

 

"For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 

"But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.

 

"This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 

"Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law."

 

 

And we read in D&C 29:43-44; “And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—that by his natural death he might be raised in immortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe; And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not;

 

The words of Christ in D&C 56:14 also apply: “Behold, thus saith the Lord unto my people—you have many things to do and to repent of; for behold, your sins have come up unto me and are not pardoned, because you seek to counsel in your own ways.”

 

D&C 76:16-17 tells us about the resurrections of the just and the unjust: “Speaking of the resurrection of the dead, concerning those who shall hear the voice of the Son of Man: And shall come forth; they who have done good, in the resurrection of the just; and they who have done evil, in the resurrection of the unjust.”

 

Now let’s read specifically about the resurrection of the just from D&C section 76.

 

 50 And again we bear record—for we saw and heard, and this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just—

 

 51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—

 

 52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;

 

 53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.

 

 54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.

 

 55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—

 

 56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;

 

 57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.

 

 58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—

 

 59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

 

 60 And they shall overcome all things.

 

 61 Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.

 

 62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.

 

 63 These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.

 

 64 These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.

 

 65 These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.

 

 66 These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.

 

 67 These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.

 

 68 These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.

 

 69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.

 

 70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.

 

 

 

D&C section 88 also tells us about those who are Christ’s and those who are condemned:

 

97 And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven—

 

 98 They are Christ’s, the first fruits, they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him; and all this by the voice of the sounding of the trump of the angel of God.

 

 99 And after this another angel shall sound, which is the second trump; and then cometh the redemption of those who are Christ’s at his coming; who have received their part in that prison which is prepared for them, that they might receive the gospel, and be judged according to men in the flesh.

 

 100 And again, another trump shall sound, which is the third trump; and then come the spirits of men who are to be judged, and are found under condemnation;

 

 101 And these are the rest of the dead; and they live not again until the thousand years are ended, neither again, until the end of the earth.

 

 

And we especially need to remember that in Doctrine and Covenants 82:3, Jesus Christ said, "For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation."

 

I certainly hope no one is looking forward to condemnation. Latter-day Saints who think they can take the gospel lightly and reject certain parts of it, believing they are going to get the terrestrial kingdom, are sinning against the greater light, and as such, shall receive the greater condemnation. Think about it. Between the terrestrial kingdom and the telestial kingdom, which one is "the greater condemnation"?

Edited October 27, 2015 by Tony Frank

[Meadowchik]

I certainly hope no one is looking forward to condemnation. Latter-day Saints who think they can take the gospel lightly and reject certain parts of it, believing they are going to get the terrestrial kingdom, are sinning against the greater light, and as such, shall receive the greater condemnation. Think about it. Between the terrestrial kingdom and the telestial kingdom, which one is "the greater condemnation"?

 

 

Yet that does not mean they are deliberately trading sin for glory.  Some LDS genuinely may feel they are choosing the better part when they reject some parts of the Church/gospel. 

 

Personally, I'd want them to stay and keep working it all out and trying out the word continually until the end. I believe the greater light will come that way.

 

But, I'll leave it up to God to make the final call.  However, it's not Church membership which determines how much light we've actually received and therefore, actually rejected.

[Tony Frank]

Yet that does not mean they are deliberately trading sin for glory.  Some LDS genuinely may feel they are choosing the better part when they reject some parts of the Church/gospel. 

 

Personally, I'd want them to stay and keep working it all out and trying out the word continually until the end. I believe the greater light will come that way.

 

But, I'll leave it up to God to make the final call.  However, it's not Church membership which determines how much light we've actually received and therefore, actually rejected.

 

I agree 100%. The gospel is learned, as it states several places in the scriptures, "line upon line, precept upon precept." In the end, one has to be worthy of celestial glory, having worked out their salvation with trembling and fear, or they will be condemned.