Thinking Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Since the 2008 statistics were released, I have been keeping track of the membership growth in 20 areas of the LDS Church. Since 2008 the total membership has increased from 13,508,509 to 15,372,337 – an increase of 13.8%. During that same time the number of congregations has increased from 28,109 to 29,621 – an increase of 5.3%. Changes of Note from 2013 to 20147 areas decreased the number of members per congregation: South Africa, Ghana, United Kingdom, Australia, Samoa, California, Connecticut. 2 areas decreased total membership: United Kingdom, California. 4 areas decreased the number of congregations: Peru, Japan, Alabama, Michigan. Attached is the PDF with the statistics for the 20 areas for each year from 2008 to 2014. LDS Church Membership 2008-2014.pdf 4
canard78 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Fascinating as ever. I remember last year we had a long conversation about the implications for activity rates from members per congregation. It seems that trend continues.It either means the inactivity trend is increasing or it means the church continues to have a policy of letting units gradually grow bigger before splitting them. Greetings from UK. I'll let everyone know to pull our collective socks up.
Brian 2.0 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) There must be a LOT of inactives in Mexico and Peru to get those M/C numbers. Edited April 13, 2015 by Brian 2.0
Robert F. Smith Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Since the 2008 statistics were released, I have been keeping track of the membership growth in 20 areas of the LDS Church. Since 2008 the total membership has increased from 13,508,509 to 15,372,337 – an increase of 13.8%. During that same time the number of congregations has increased from 28,109 to 29,621 – an increase of 5.3%. Changes of Note from 2013 to 20147 areas decreased the number of members per congregation: South Africa, Ghana, United Kingdom, Australia, Samoa, California, Connecticut. 2 areas decreased total membership: United Kingdom, California. 4 areas decreased the number of congregations: Peru, Japan, Alabama, Michigan......................................................That one-year period is too short to tell us anything substantive. In California (where I was born and raised), for example, there has been an overall increase in both membership and the membership per congregation since 2008. At the same time, a lot of people have been leaving California, both for financial reasons and due to the long drought (resulting in lack of jobs, retirement & relocation, etc.). So, we should be interested in more nuanced statistics dealing with convert baptisms versus children of record, in order to understand outmigration from California (or anywhere else) and levels of stasis. There have also been vast demographic shifts in the ethnic composition of California over time. One would like to see your spreadsheet converted to graphs for comparison. It would be nice to include the missionary statistics graphed along with these other figures. Also, if you could include stats for the entire history of the LDS Church. One would like to know, for example, how many missionaries were in the field in the early years of LDS history in comparison with the baptism rate then. Would be nice to see the rate per capita then and now, if only for perspective. 2
Shadrak Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Thinking. Where did you get the stats by country??One place for current statistics is http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/ I believe you need a desktop computer to access the individual country info menu, it doesn't work on my phone.
stemelbow Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 There must be a LOT of inactives in Mexico and Peru to get those M/C numbers. There are ten countries with a larger members per congegration rate than Peru. Chile (959) Nicaragua (870) District of Columbia (854) Northern Mariana Islands (789) Bolivia (760) Ecuador (744) El Salvador (734) Colombia (725) Honduras (723) Uruguay (721) But I've always heard the activity rates in Both Mexico and Brazil are extremely low. I assume these countries are on the same scale.
stemelbow Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Fascinating as ever. I remember last year we had a long conversation about the implications for activity rates from members per congregation. It seems that trend continues. It either means the inactivity trend is increasing or it means the church continues to have a policy of letting units gradually grow bigger before splitting them. Greetings from UK. I'll let everyone know to pull our collective socks up. Has anyone figured out whether we are growing in wards and branches, just branches, just wards? 2014 was reported to have 29,621 wards and branches. 2013 reported 29,253. But I don't know how many wards and how many braches for each. If say the number of wards is growing but the number of branches is staying the same, we might not be able to conclude, based on this alone, anything about activity.
Thinking Posted April 13, 2015 Author Posted April 13, 2015 There are ten countries with a larger members per congegration rate than Peru.Chile (959)Nicaragua (870)District of Columbia (854)Northern Mariana Islands (789)Bolivia (760)Ecuador (744)El Salvador (734)Colombia (725)Honduras (723)Uruguay (721)But I've always heard the activity rates in Both Mexico and Brazil are extremely low. I assume these countries are on the same scale. Are there any recently returned missionaries from these countries who could give us an idea of the sacrament meeting attendance?
Paddy Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 One place for current statistics is http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/ I believe you need a desktop computer to access the individual country info menu, it doesn't work on my phone.Cool. Thanks Shadrak
Shadrak Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Last November we had a 5th Sunday lesson exhorting us to pay more fast offerings. As a proof that more was needed, the bishopric showed a graph of the percentage of tithe vs fast offering payers based on regions around the world they received from a regional training they had, there are more tithe payers than FO. I assumed a tithe payer is an active member, one can derive activity rates in each region when used with the info on mormonnewsroom/facts and statistics. These numbers correlate fairly well with the 36% active member rate (sacrament attendance) leaked (it was fairly quickly redacted) by the church CIO in an article in the Deseret News Oct 17, 2014. http://www.nearingkolob.com/original-deseret-news-article-statistics-deleted/ Coincidentally 36% was the active member rate in 1965 as well (Improvement Era Jan 1968, pg29). I guesstimated Oceania as 36% rate. tithing FO North America 45% 37% Africa 29% 16% Europe 23% 17% Asia 19% 13% Latin America 17% 10% total members congregations members/ congregation tithing rates from 11/30/14 5th Sunday PH/RS combined active members/ congregation based on tithers active members North America 8,943,640 17,914 499 45% 225 4,024,638 Africa 460,055 1,445 318 29% 92 133,416 Europe 504,198 1,456 346 23% 80 115,966 Asia 1,087,368 1,934 562 19% 107 206,600 Latin America 3,833,336 5,530 693 17% 118 651,667 Oceania 520,401 1,192 437 36% 157 187,344 total 15,348,998 29,471 521 35% 130 5,319,631
Robert F. Smith Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 New York Times, Jan 29, 2012, online at http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2012/01/29/sunday-review/29giving-gfx.html?ref=sunday-review ,–blog comments (not mine): In a recent article highlighting Mitt Romney’s charitable giving, the New York Times shared a graph that outlines the amount of giving major religions in America contribute. The LDS, or Mormon Church’s members give nearly twice as much as the denomonation in the number two spot. Here’s the breakdown of the average percentage of giving per member of each denomonation: Mormon: 5.6% Assemblies of God: 2.9% Nondenominational Evangelical: 2.6% Baptist: 2% Lutheran: 1.5% Jewish: Mormon: 5.6%Assemblies of God: 2.9%Nondenominational Evangelical: 2.6%Baptist: 2%Lutheran: 1.5%Jewish: 1.4%Orthodox: 1.3%Methodist: 1.2 %Episcopalian: 1.2%Presbyterian: 1.2%Catholic: .7%Muslim/Buddhist: .6%Since paying tithing is a requirement for Mormons to attend the temple, I can understand how they could have a relatively high percentage. Also, regular church attendance for Mormons is usually around 50% and since the tithing requirement is 10%, I can see how the Mormon church members are at around 5%. For other Christian faiths, I’m actually pretty amazed how low the charitable giving is. My understanding was that tithing is a law for all Christian faiths, but evidently I’m wrong about that. Also, I’m amazed that giving isn’t up for Christians merely based on the fact that Jesus taught about giving to those in need. 2
CCRW Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 For other Christian faiths, I’m actually pretty amazed how low the charitable giving is. My understanding was that tithing is a law for all Christian faiths, but evidently I’m wrong about that. Also, I’m amazed that giving isn’t up for Christians merely based on the fact that Jesus taught about giving to those in need. I suppose its possible they give to other charities which would not be reported by their respective churches. I wonder if other faiths would consider this type of giving as tithing?
VideoGameJunkie Posted April 17, 2015 Posted April 17, 2015 I'm happy to see growth, but it's still only 15 million out of 7 billion people worldwide. We'll have a LOT of work to do during the Millenium.
Stone holm Posted April 18, 2015 Posted April 18, 2015 Sunstone just published a piece regarding the relatively small bump in conversions compared with the large spike in number of missionaries. In our Ward there was a massive fall off in the number of investigators and baptisms after we lost our sister missionaries. Am wondering if that was just our Ward, or has happened elsewhere.
Okrahomer Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Sunstone just published a piece regarding the relatively small bump in conversions compared with the large spike in number of missionaries. In our Ward there was a massive fall off in the number of investigators and baptisms after we lost our sister missionaries. Am wondering if that was just our Ward, or has happened elsewhere.So did the Deseret News: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865626695/Number-of-LDS-converts-missionaries-increasing-conversion-rate-declines.html?pg=all
stemelbow Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 Armand Mauss, a retired professor of sociology and religious studies at Washington State University, said the figures also might represent a shift to having missionaries focus on bringing inactive Mormons back into the faith. Social scientists estimate that half or more of all converts stop attending church within a year of their baptism. As a result, new missionaries have likely spent time trying to "reconvert" people who strayed, Mauss said. SOrry Bro, Mauss, that was the focus 20 years ago when I was on my mission-when we had far less missionaries and far more converts. We called it a great inspiration that by doing so our convert baptisms, at the time was so high. As you go to the less active, you find plenty of family members who have not been baptized. Also blaming the people of the world is just ridiculous--they are ripe in inequity. The problem is ours. The burden should rest squarely on our shoulders. This weird nonsense explaining is not helpful. If we can't adjust and make the "true religion" appealing to people, then it's our problem, I'd say. Plenty of things contribute to that, though. We're a bit stuck, it seems to me, in many ways. The legalism that the Church prefers is unappealing, and contrary to Jesus' grand message. The near rameumptum-type worship is unappealing, lacks meaning, and again, is opposed to Jesus' grand message. To me, these are the types of things that are causing a pretty hefty decline in the Church's growth attempts, as much as anything. I suppose there are plenty of secular positions that are appealing because they hold such credibility. But, I'd say one of the problems there is our insistence that secular and spiritual are dichotomous--our allegiance to conservative Evangelical type dogma doesn't help that (somewhat going away, it seems like to me). 2
Robert F. Smith Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I suppose its possible they give to other charities which would not be reported by their respective churches. I wonder if other faiths would consider this type of giving as tithing?Actually, charitable giving can be measured in a quite dispassionate and even-handed way -- through IRS annual charitable giving figures. Turns out that large Mormon population areas also have the largest levels of giving of any group in America. They give to charities in addition to their own Church contributions. I even know of Mormons who contribute to the American Bible Society, just because they like to see more Bibles distributed. One also should note that the LDS Church gives to disaster sites at a much higher per capita level than other Churches, and we cooperate with and coordinate closely with other organizations in doing so, as with Catholic Relief. See my coverage in my “LDS Church Welfare Expenditures,” 2012, online at http://www.scribd.com/doc/107498713/LDS-Church-Welfare-Expenditures . 1
Robert F. Smith Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 ................................................................................................Also blaming the people of the world is just ridiculous--they are ripe in inequity. The problem is ours. The burden should rest squarely on our shoulders. This weird nonsense explaining is not helpful. If we can't adjust and make the "true religion" appealing to people, then it's our problem, I'd say. Plenty of things contribute to that, though. We're a bit stuck, it seems to me, in many ways. The legalism that the Church prefers is unappealing, and contrary to Jesus' grand message. The near rameumptum-type worship is unappealing, lacks meaning, and again, is opposed to Jesus' grand message. To me, these are the types of things that are causing a pretty hefty decline in the Church's growth attempts, as much as anything. I suppose there are plenty of secular positions that are appealing because they hold such credibility. But, I'd say one of the problems there is our insistence that secular and spiritual are dichotomous--our allegiance to conservative Evangelical type dogma doesn't help that (somewhat going away, it seems like to me).Pretty harsh condemnation, but I just don't see it. You may be viewing the LDS people and Church through jaundiced eyes. What is true is that our missionaries are sent to find the honest in heart, those who are ready to receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Their job is to preach Him Crucified and allow the Holy Ghost to testify to the truth of their words. They will always find the good people of the world ready to accept the Restoration, as they always have. That "hefty decline" in LDS Church growth is apparently a wish-fulfillment figment on your part. Secularism does have a powerful effect on all religions in places like Western Europe, but that is predictable and understandable. Worldwide LDS growth is extraordinary, even though it seems to anger you. 1
CCRW Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Wow, I scrolled through Satan: Notes on the Gods ... I have no clue. I have seen the 1.4bil from 1985 to its seems like 2005 or so when they quit putting out detail on these things. I believe the following statement is true: If a member only pays their 10% tithing, they have applied nothing to humanitarian aid. 1
stemelbow Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Pretty harsh condemnation, but I just don't see it. You may be viewing the LDS people and Church through jaundiced eyes. Could be. What is true is that our missionaries are sent to find the honest in heart, those who are ready to receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Their job is to preach Him Crucified and allow the Holy Ghost to testify to the truth of their words. They will always find the good people of the world ready to accept the Restoration, as they always have. As it is, we don't know who are the honest of heart, whether our missionaries have missed them or not, though. It very well could be that our approach needs some fixing in order to reach more of the honest in heart. That "hefty decline" in LDS Church growth is apparently a wish-fulfillment figment on your part. I'm not glad or happy about a decline at all. It just so happens we are below 2 percent growth rate, a rate we haven't seen for decades. And not long ago, that rate, like when I was on my mission just under 20 years ago, was 100% greater than it is today. The last time we've seen a 3% growth rate was in the 90s. Secularism does have a powerful effect on all religions in places like Western Europe, but that is predictable and understandable. Worldwide LDS growth is extraordinary, even though it seems to anger you. I'm not angry about it. I'm disappointed that we can't seem to acknowledge the obvious and pretend all is well, in some way. I think we'd be wise to be able to adjust to the way the world has gone in order to be more credible to more people.
ERayR Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Could be. As it is, we don't know who are the honest of heart, whether our missionaries have missed them or not, though. It very well could be that our approach needs some fixing in order to reach more of the honest in heart. I'm not glad or happy about a decline at all. It just so happens we are below 2 percent growth rate, a rate we haven't seen for decades. And not long ago, that rate, like when I was on my mission just under 20 years ago, was 100% greater than it is today. The last time we've seen a 3% growth rate was in the 90s.I'm not angry about it. I'm disappointed that we can't seem to acknowledge the obvious and pretend all is well, in some way. I think we'd be wise to be able to adjust to the way the world has gone in order to be more credible to more people. What do the numbers signify to you.
stemelbow Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 What do the numbers signify to you. Well not much more than what I've already stated. It seems like we aren't as appealing as we once were to people. I think that is probably due to our methods in seeking converts. While it once worked quite well, it seems to have lost it's appeal. I think that's at least one reason we are seeing far less growth than what we once did. Of coruse there are plenty of other reasons, and no doubt the world being more secular plays a role. Also, I recall one forum member here suggested that back in the 60s through much of the 90s there were all sorts of baptism gimmicks that some missionaries did, thus putting names on rolls without the people realizing what that meant to the Church. That probably inflated the actual growth rate to some extent.
ERayR Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Well not much more than what I've already stated. It seems like we aren't as appealing as we once were to people. I think that is probably due to our methods in seeking converts. While it once worked quite well, it seems to have lost it's appeal. I think that's at least one reason we are seeing far less growth than what we once did. Of coruse there are plenty of other reasons, and no doubt the world being more secular plays a role. Also, I recall one forum member here suggested that back in the 60s through much of the 90s there were all sorts of baptism gimmicks that some missionaries did, thus putting names on rolls without the people realizing what that meant to the Church. That probably inflated the actual growth rate to some extent. Thanks. I don't think numbers are significant to the mission of the Church. While we are to take the gospel to the world it is my understanding that the Church will always be a minority.
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