cursor Posted November 25, 2014 Author Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Thats the point, we do not know what exactly is the scope of distances and size of nation that Mormon, as General, is referring to. For all we know the Nephite nation spanned thousands of miles. Certainly, the Inca, as a nation, spread over thousands of miles when the Spanish explorers discovered them. I m inclined to believe the Nephites and Lamanites were a much more advanced and larger civilization than the Inca. In fact, most Inca sites show two distinct eras of building with the earlier (Nephite?) building being far superior than what the Inca were capable of. There are very SO many geographic hints offered by Mormon (who was born in the land northward, and migrated to ("carried into")) the land southward (at the ripe age of eleven ... yet selected by Ammaron at the ripe age of 10 to assume the records) that suggest that the distance from the hill Cumorah/Ramah the final battleground of the Nephites and Jaredites to the narrow neck of land is not at all distant. The Inca empire had nothing to do with the folk described in the Book of Mormon. Edited November 25, 2014 by cursor 1
LinuxGal Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 There are very SO many geographic hints offered by Mormon (who was born in the land northward, and migrated to ("carried into")) the land southward (at the ripe age of eleven ... yet selected by Ammaron at the ripe age of 10 to assume the records) that suggest that the distance from the hill Cumorah/Ramah the final battleground of the Nephites and Jaredites to the narrow neck of land is not at all distant. Someone did an analysis and found a similarity of place names between settings in the Book of Mormon and places in New York and Ontario.Morianton = MoraviantownJacobugath = JacobsburgOnidah = OneidaKishkumen = Kiskiminetasetc...The sheer number of coincidences makes the case pretty clear cutto me.
cursor Posted November 25, 2014 Author Posted November 25, 2014 And what might be the source of that analysis, LinuxGal? Please share.
LinuxGal Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 And what might be the source of that analysis, LinuxGal? Please share. Do you think knowing who did the study would alter the statistical correspondence between the place names? "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
Calm Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) Looking at the original work would help know whether there statistical claim you are making for it is significant or not. For example, some of the names used in the claim weren't even around in the time of Joseph Smith, but were towns founded much later. Then he also uses "Jerusalem" as if that wouldn't be a name the Nephites would have been familiar with and used for the same reason that the town was named in JS's time. If one eliminates all the names that were legitimate biblical names (including partial names like Jacob), the list gets much smaller. Nor do the names really line up well for the geography given. Found in one of the many previous discussions: Of the 17 Book of Mormon place names treated by Mr. Holley, nine of them (more than 50%) are mentioned only once or twice in the entire Nephite/Jaredite record. This reveals an effort to try to pinpoint cities which have little or no clue given as to their respective locations from the text of the Book of Mormon itself. Even so, it surprised me to learn that many of the cities on Holley's maps are placed in incorrect relationship to one another.For instance, Angola and Jacobugath should be north of Zarahemla (Mormon 2:3b-4 and 3 Nephi 7:12a; 9:9a); Alma should be north of Lehi-Nephi (Mosiah 18:30-34; 23:1-4, 19; 24:20, 24-25); Jerusalem should be in the land of Lehi-Nephi (Alma 21:1; 24:1); and Morianton should be on the eastern borders of the land southward (Alma 50:28-34; 51:26). Mr. Holley has altered these locational relationships in every instance. Furthermore, he displays a glaring inconsistency in his treatment of the river Sidon. On his maps, he sees a parallel between this river and the Genesee River, yet on pages 14-15 he draws a parallel between the river Sidon and the Ohio River.Other pertinent questions surface when considering just how original the place names are. For instance, several of the Book of Mormon place names appear in the Bible. These include Ephraim (2 Samuel 13:23), Ramah (Joshua 19:36), and, of course, Jerusalem. If the author of the Book of Mormon were given to pilfering, why would he need the Manuscript Story when the Bible would serve just as well?It is also important to note that some of the New England cities were not even incorporated entities prior to 1830. Angola was incorporated in 1873, and in Monroe County, Ohio, Jerusalem's post office wasn't established until January 8, 1850. Thus, Mr. Holley's claim that such places were known in the neighborhood of Joseph Smith is chronologically misinformed. Finally, to draw etymological parallels between "Jacobugath" and "Jacobsburg," or "Shurr" and "Sherbrooke" is to strain one's credulity. http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1424&index=10&keyword=vernal%20holley Edited November 26, 2014 by calmoriah 1
LinuxGal Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) It is also important to note that some of the New England cities were not even incorporated entities prior to 1830. Angola was incorporated in 1873, and in Monroe County, Ohio, Jerusalem's post office wasn't established until January 8, 1850. Thus, Mr. Holley's claim that such places were known in the neighborhood of Joseph Smith is chronologically misinformed. For a time I lived in a town called Sifton in Washington, it was never incorporated, and is now a neighborhood in Vancouver, but the place was known by that name for many decades and was, in the 1920s, the terminus of a trolley line. Another place a few miles away called Sara consists only of a general store, with no post office, but is still marked by its name on the map. So neither the lack of incorporation nor the lack of a post office are deal breakers when stacked against the sheer number of correspondences in the list I mentioned. I suspect the tendency to locate Zarahemla, etc, in Central America is to stay very far away from the implications of the place names in the BoM being creative distortions of the names of existing towns surrounding Palmyra, NY. Edited November 26, 2014 by LinuxGal
Calm Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) " I suspect the tendency to locate Zarahemla, etc, in Central America is to stay very far away from the implications of the place names in the BoM being creative distortions of the names of existing towns surrounding Palmyra, NY." I suspect you are completely wrong. "Sheer number"…and how many are those actually once you subtract biblical names? And how many names are there in the BoM to begin with to compare them to? Edited November 26, 2014 by calmoriah 1
cursor Posted November 26, 2014 Author Posted November 26, 2014 Do you think knowing who did the study would alter the statistical correspondence between the place names? "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt Actually, I look forward to reading the study ... but can't, of course, if I have no reference. Again, please share.
cursor Posted November 26, 2014 Author Posted November 26, 2014 While I really look forward to your referenced study, LinuxGal ... please keep in mind the topic of this thread. It is about volcanic and seismic data that might reasonably connect with the BofM times within 3NE. That's it. It's not about site naming convention, etc.
Pinecone Posted November 28, 2014 Posted November 28, 2014 While I really look forward to your referenced study, LinuxGal ... please keep in mind the topic of this thread. It is about volcanic and seismic data that might reasonably connect with the BofM times within 3NE. That's it. It's not about site naming convention, etc.You should be more polite to ladies. And I have yet to read any references to volcanic and seismic data in this discussion while you have earlier written of anything but. Just saying! 1
strappinglad Posted November 29, 2014 Posted November 29, 2014 If cursor was any more polite, he would be mistaken for a Canadian.
cursor Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 Actually, my oldest brother has been a Canadian for these last 46 years ... so that makes him BOTH a Canadian AND a Sorenson ... OH NO! And his three sons are all "sons of a Canadian Sorenson." 1
cursor Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) By the way, I just got word from Jerry Grover that his book is now available, Geology of the Book of Mormon. He wrote: Curtis, The printing of the book should be done in a week, it is now available on Amazon or ebay. Hope to have an e-book available as well within a couple of weeks. It is the first item that appears if one does a search of “Geology of the Book of Mormon”. Whatever publicity you can give to the book would be appreciated. I am creating an emag for the book that I will give you a link to so you can read the book online. I think it is a nice product, and does verify and support (and hopefully add new information) to your father’s work. Thanks for your help on the project. Jerry I have a digital copy ... and it really looks well done. I strongly recommend it to all. Edited January 10, 2015 by cursor 1
cursor Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) You should be more polite to ladies. And I have yet to read any references to volcanic and seismic data in this discussion while you have earlier written of anything but. Just saying! Seriously, I can't imagine how I could be, or should be "more polite to ladies." My wife, and all of her female friends find me exceptionally cordial. And, really, how might that expected politeness be projected or vary with respect to men? I try as hard as I can to be polite to everyone, regardless of gender, species, or whatever. Pleased be sure to check out, and then purchase, Jerry Gover's very fine text, entitled " Geology of the Book of Mormon." Hey ... just sayin'. Edited January 11, 2015 by cursor
piccione Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 A free electronic version of Geology of the Book of Mormon is now available on my websiteAnyone interested in a free electronic copy of my three books, Geology of the Book of Mormon, Translation of the "Caractors" Document, and Ziff, Magic Goggles and Golden Plates can find them at my website www.bookofmormoncaractorstranslation.com . Also available for free is my new book Translation of the "Caractors" Document and a draft of another book Ziff, Magic Goggles, and Golden Plates. Feedback on the drafts are always appreciated. Home bookofmormoncaractorstranslation.com 1
Scott Lloyd Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 THREAD NECROMANCY (and blatant marketing) ALERT!
Calm Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) I don't think the marketing is inappropriate (you may not be saying so, but just in case you are) this time since he didn't start the thread and it is free and he is sincerely looking for feedback in my opinion, not just looking for readers as some of our less experienced in writing posters have appeared to be. Plus he has an established record that gives him credibility: http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/tag/geology/ Edited November 14, 2015 by Calm
Scott Lloyd Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 I don't think the marketing is inappropriate (you may not be saying so, but just in case you are) this time since he didn't start the thread and it is free and he is sincerely looking for feedback in my opinion, not just looking for readers as some of our less experienced in writing posters have appeared to be. Plus he has an established record that gives him credibility: http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/tag/geology/No, I don't think it inappropriate. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it at all. My bad.
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