wenglund Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 You, Wade, & Mola keep referring to Hollywood, pop culture, and some mysterious universal "gay agenda". You'll note that none of us on the other side of this discussion have cited such sources. You tend not to provide citations at all, thus leaving open the question of your sources. However, the question is reasonably answered by how exactly your opinions on this matter match the pop culture talking points in contrast to the revelations and inspiration expressed by leaders in your own professed religious faith. In matters of homosexuality, you are of one mind with the world and against Church leadership. Be honest with yourself, and own your allegiance. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Rodeo Posted September 25, 2014 Author Posted September 25, 2014 I understand how the Church views homosexual behavior. Yet, I cannot imagine the Church coming out in this day and age and directly calling the holding of hands and kissing "gross" and an "abomination." That may be a logical inference to be drawn, and is likely the underlying doctrinal conclusion (at least with regard to the behavior being considered an abomination*). But I still can't see the Church actually saying it. Because it would also be viewed as insensitive if not hateful. It's certainly not something I'd expect from someone who was sincerely seeking a dialogue about same sex attraction and sin. To address the abomination/gross comment further: Sin, whatever it is, is an abomination in God's eyes. Whether something is doctrinally a sin is a question of fact. And as parents, we have an obligation to teach or children what sin is. Whether something is gross is a question of opinion. It is our duty to teach our children about gross immoral behavior. Two gay people kissing is gross immoral behavior.
rockpond Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 You tend not to provide citations at all, thus leaving open the question of your sources. However, the question is reasonably answered by how exactly your opinions on this matter match the pop culture talking points in contrast to the revelations and inspiration expressed by leaders in your own professed religious faith. In matters of homosexuality, you are of one mind with the world and against Church leadership. Be honest with yourself, and own your allegiance. Thanks, -Wade Englund- Let's see, I think the last citation I provided (in support of my statements) was that of an Apostle. I have repeatedly referred to the church produced MormonsandGays website which reflects the current position of the Church.
rockpond Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 It is our duty to teach our children about gross immoral behavior. Two gay people kissing is gross immoral behavior. Calling it "gross" seems like a fantastic way to open up a quality, mature dialogue with your children.
thesometimesaint Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 It is not "becoming something else". Religiously speaking, there are no homosexuals and heterosexuals. We are all just God's children with our own traits and trials to work with. SSA is a trait (possibly born with, possibly acquired, doesn't really matter). It is NOT something unchangeable that they are and should be allowed to be. It IS something that is within in them whatever its source. I was born with or developed a foul temper when young. It took much time and prayer to cease acting upon it. It took recognizing those feelings as wrong. So am I someone who had a negative trait (anger) and fought against it until it usually doesn't tempt me to act on it. We expect people to overcome shyness. We expect people to overcome lust. We expect people to overcome jealousy. Why is it any different to expect people to overcome a sinful attraction? We expect people to overcome a sinful attraction to food (gluttony)? We expect porn addicts to overcome a sinful attraction to pornography? If someone is born with or develops an attraction for the same sex they are accountable not to act on it, just as I am with my temper. Just as the porn addict is with pornography. Just as the glutton is with food. They are accountable to recognize those feelings are wrong.Claiming that we are asking homosexuals to go against their natural feelings is a poor excuse. We are ALL expected to go against our natural feelings. That is one of the main goals of life. To overcome the natural man. Homosexuals don't get a free pass just because their natural trait has become more societally acceptable or because sexuality is considered a unique situation. It's no different than lust, anger, jealousy, gluttony, sloth or any other sinful behavior. Incorrect. The attraction is not a sin. Acting on the attraction maybe a sin. Christ was tempted in all things. However he did not sin.
Tacenda Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) It is our duty to teach our children about gross immoral behavior. Two gay people kissing is gross immoral behavior.I hope you never have a child, sibling, relative come out as SSA for fear they might get the shaft, or sort of hope they do...because it changes everything. Then you get the point that these people that are born that way, yes I said born that way, feel the same way you do for people of the same sex as you do for the opposite sex. But I know my words aren't going to prove it. But maybe a video might give some insight? I dare you to watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ntauVWRUY EDIT: IF YOU DARED WATCH TO THE END, YOU WILL SEE THAT THE BOY IN THIS VIDEO, FELT LIKE HE WAS GROSS TO SOCIETY...HE STARTED A LIFE OF DRUGS AND HANGING WITH A BAD CROWD. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, THOSE THAT FEEL THEY ARE NOTHING AND DO GROSS THINGS BECAUSE OF IT, WILL GET TO THE POINT RYAN DID AND CAUSE HIS OWN DEATH. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, IF THEY DIDN'T FEEL GROSS FOR JUST BEING OR EVEN ACTING OUT, HE'D STILL BE ALIVE. MAYBE GOD IS TRYING TO TELL US SOMETHING, IS GOD USING HIM AND OTHERS? IS IT A TEST? I WONDER. BITS AND PEICES OF WORDS FROM RYAN'S FATHER: BEING GAY IS NOT A DEAL BREAKER TO GOD, HE IS BIGGER THAN THIS, GOD DOESN'T REJECT THE GAYS...GOD THROUGH YOU (RYAN) HAS OPENED A WHOLE WORLD UP FOR US...I'M SORRY FOR WANTING YOU (RYAN) TO BE SOMEONE OTHER THAN WHO GOD MADE YOU, I KNOW YOU ARE EXACTLY WHO GOD INTENDED YOU TO BE. FROM RYAN'S MOM: WE PRAY THAT GOD WILL USE OUR TRUTH STORY TO HELP OTHER PARENTS KNOW HOW TO TRULY LOVE THEIR OWN CHILDREN JUST.. BECAUSE.. THEY.. BREATH. Edited September 25, 2014 by Tacenda 1
thesometimesaint Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 It is our duty to teach our children about gross immoral behavior. Two gay people kissing is gross immoral behavior. Girls have cooties. Just ask any 7 year old boy.
wenglund Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Are they not consenting adults? Are adulterers and fornicators and swingers consenting adults? Are pornographers and their consumers consenting adults? Your point? Thanks, -Wade Englund- 1
wenglund Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Let's see, I think the last citation I provided (in support of my statements) was that of an Apostle. I have repeatedly referred to the church produced MormonsandGays website which reflects the current position of the Church. Your being obtuse. Your position on gay marriage and sin echoes that of the world and against that of the Church. Be honest with yourself and own your allegiance. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
rockpond Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Are adulterers and fornicators and swingers consenting adults? Are pornographers and their consumers consenting adults? Your point? Thanks, -Wade Englund- It was just a clarifying point in a Q&A with JLHPROF. I'm not going to try to rehash the whole thing -- you can go back and read the posts/replies.
rockpond Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Your being obtuse. Your position on gay marriage and sin echoes that of the world and against that of the Church. Be honest with yourself and own your allegiance. Thanks, -Wade Englund- My only allegiances are to the Lord and my family. The "world" and I disagree on a lot of things with respect to gay relationships. You can hardly say that the world supports the law of chastity - but I do. Emphatically. I can't help it if the world has some overlap with my beliefs.
wenglund Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Some people just don't get how repugnant it is to compare skin color to homosexual sin--i.e. a man putting his generative part where another man evacuates his bowels. Thanks, -Wade Englund- You are out of the thread. Next time it will be suspension or ban. 1
Rodeo Posted September 25, 2014 Author Posted September 25, 2014 Gross immoral behavior. Maybe if we stopped embracing homosexuality we would have less active homosexuals. 1
thesometimesaint Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 So? It was considered a gross sin to marry someone of a different skin color even in the Book of Mormon.
wenglund Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 My only allegiances are to the Lord and my family. The "world" and I disagree on a lot of things with respect to gay relationships. You can hardly say that the world supports the law of chastity - but I do. Emphatically. I can't help it if the world has some overlap with my beliefs. I can certainly say that the world, like you, believes in gay marriage and doesn't view gay sex within marriage as a violation of the law of chastity, whereas the Lord and his chosen leaders believe otherwise. In terms of what has been in dispute on this discussion board regarding homosexuality, you are unified with the world and against the Church. Personal integrity demands that you own your allegiance. Thanks, -Wade Englund- 1
wenglund Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 So? It was considered a gross sin to marry someone of a different skin color even in the Book of Mormon. CFR on the "gross sin". Thanks, -Wade Englund-
rockpond Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 I can certainly say that the world, like you, believes in gay marriage and doesn't view gay sex within marriage as a violation of the law of chastity, whereas the Lord and his chosen leaders believe otherwise. In terms of what has been in dispute on this discussion board regarding homosexuality, you are unified with the world and against the Church. Personal integrity demands that you own your allegiance. Thanks, -Wade Englund- I have owned my allegiance -- as I stated previously.
thesometimesaint Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 I can certainly say that the world, like you, believes in gay marriage and doesn't view gay sex within marriage as a violation of the law of chastity, whereas the Lord and his chosen leaders believe otherwise. In terms of what has been in dispute on this discussion board regarding homosexuality, you are unified with the world and against the Church. Personal integrity demands that you own your allegiance. Thanks, -Wade Englund- I agree with the Church that homosexual relations are sin, and that we are not to add burdens unto our fellow homosexual brothers and sisters.
rockpond Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 CFR on the "gross sin". Thanks, -Wade Englund- CFR's have become kinda pointless on this thread. Rodeo refuses to respond to them and it's his thread with the claim of wanting better understanding.
rockpond Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Gross immoral behavior. Maybe if we stopped embracing homosexuality we would have less active homosexuals. Yes, if we all talked about homosexuality the way you do, I am sure that even more homosexuals would become less active in the church. If that's what you want, please continue. But I would rather have them worshiping in the pew next to me. 1
tonie Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) Gross immoral behavior. Maybe if we stopped embracing homosexuality we would have less active homosexuals. Maybe you should follow the instruction of the Church and Prophets and consider whether your approach is in harmony with the teachings and instruction of the Church. Here is how the Church teaches against homosexual behavior: "[E]ngaging in homosexual behavior is in conflict with the “doctrinal principle, based on sacred scripture … that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.” - Same-Sex Attraction "As a church, our doctrinal position is clear: any sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong, and we define marriage as between a man and a woman. However, that should never, ever be used as justification for unkindness. Jesus Christ, whom we follow, was clear in His condemnation of sexual immorality, but never cruel. His interest was always to lift the individual, never to tear down." - Statement on Same-Sex attraction Now to read how the Church responds to those who advocate same-sex marriage: "[T]hose who promote same-sex marriage are entitled to civility,..." - Church Instructs Leaders on Same-Sex Marriage "Each Latter-day Saint family and individual should carefully consider whether their attitudes and actions toward others properly reflect Jesus Christ’s second great commandment - to love one another." - Statement on Same-Sex attraction "Church apostle Elder Quentin L. Cook stated: “As a church, nobody should be more loving and compassionate. Let us be at the forefront in terms of expressing love, compassion and outreach. Let’s not have families exclude or be disrespectful of those who choose a different lifestyle as a result of their feelings about their own gender.” - Same-Sex Attraction Edited September 25, 2014 by tonie 2
Tacenda Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) Some people just don't get how repugnant it is to compare skin color to homosexual sin--i.e. a man putting his generative part where another man evacuates his bowels. Thanks, -Wade Englund- I hope you don't get this thread shut down, but maybe that's your intentions. Edited September 25, 2014 by Tacenda
thesometimesaint Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 CFR on the "gross sin". Thanks, -Wade Englund- That's an easy one. Rodeo is calling it gross. but if you want to go the harder route.The world was/is full of idiots that feel it is righteousness to use everything from mistreatment to stoning, to torture murder homosexuals.SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapySEE Leviticus 20:13SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard
rockpond Posted September 25, 2014 Posted September 25, 2014 Maybe you should follow the instruction of the Church and Prophets and consider whether your approach is in harmony with the teachings and instruction of the Church. Here is how the Church teaches against homosexual behavior: "[E]ngaging in homosexual behavior is in conflict with the “doctrinal principle, based on sacred scripture … that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.” - Same-Sex Attraction "As a church, our doctrinal position is clear: any sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong, and we define marriage as between a man and a woman. However, that should never, ever be used as justification for unkindness. Jesus Christ, whom we follow, was clear in His condemnation of sexual immorality, but never cruel. His interest was always to lift the individual, never to tear down." - Statement on Same-Sex attraction Now to read how the Church responds to those who advocate same-sex marriage: "[T]hose who promote same-sex marriage are entitled to civility,..." - Church Instructs Leaders on Same-Sex Marriage "Each Latter-day Saint family and individual should carefully consider whether their attitudes and actions toward others properly reflect Jesus Christ’s second great commandment - to love one another." - Statement on Same-Sex attraction "Church apostle Elder Quentin L. Cook stated: “As a church, nobody should be more loving and compassionate. Let us be at the forefront in terms of expressing love, compassion and outreach. Let’s not have families exclude or be disrespectful of those who choose a different lifestyle as a result of their feelings about their own gender.” - Same-Sex Attraction Tonie -- Thank you for putting all of these church quotes in one place. Great summary!
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