ELF1024 Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) I tried to stand up for myself, but it did not work. Things aren't always so cut and dried. I think you missed the point I was attempting to make. I'd tell you about the abuse my wife suffered at the hands of her step-father, and how her pastor stood with the step-father against her in court... but I'm not sure it would be any more enlightening than the example I've already used. Edited June 27, 2014 by ELF1024
Calm Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) I tried to stand up for myself, but it did not work. Things aren't always so cut and dried.I do believe this can and does happen. I have no statistics, no scientific studies. It's personal experience, anecdotes, etc. Take it for what you will.Which? I suggested two interpretations? Or do you mean both?Given the confidential nature, I don't think we can find studies on this. There may be some generic ones, but given that LDS go against the trend in several areas, I would hesitate to assume we were typical unless there were good justifications for doing so.And given LDS seem to prefer thinking the best of members, being trusting, not speaking about issues with others, it is possible we are more likely than other groups to be more accepting of the "lesser evil" than something we find horrific (though I believe the current generic data shows that the previous trend of this...disbelieving children and others who accused parents of abuse has been reversed, they are more likely to believe the accuser than not). Believing someone lied is more comfortable than believing abuse, how one reacts to this discomfort is highly cultural IMO...some respond that no one (or a child, etc) would intentionally cause that discomfort for no reason so they assume the abuse must be real, others go with the lie theory because they can't imagine or don't want to believe the level of sickness that would lead to abuse exists close by).But we are also very protective of children and those who are vulnerable so I couldn't guess where we land. Edited June 27, 2014 by calmoriah
Nofear Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 I am not saying that this doesn't happen. It does often for a lot of women. My husband even complained one time to a counselor (he was going through depression due to stress) that I used the Priesthood as a complaint against him for stuff I thought he should be doing and didn't, but he was projecting because it never would have occurred to me to do so because I dont look at the Priesthood in that way...so even men do it to themselves at times. I wish more women and men would adopt your viewpoint. Sometimes we are too quick at attribute the failings of men as an institutional failing (e.g. for letting it happen). But, the fact that we do means there is definitely room for progress among the saints collectively.
watermelongirl Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Which? I suggested two interpretations? Or do you mean both?Given the confidential nature, I don't think we can find studies on this. There may be some generic ones, but given that LDS go against the trend in several areas, I would hesitate to assume we were typical unless there were good justifications for doing so.And given LDS seem to prefer thinking the best of members, being trusting, not speaking about issues with others, it is possible we are more likely than other groups to be more accepting of the "lesser evil" than something we find horrific (though I believe the current generic data shows that the previous trend of this...disbelieving children and others who accused parents of abuse has been reversed, they are more likely to believe the accuser than not). Believing someone lied is more comfortable than believing abuse, how one reacts to this discomfort is highly cultural IMO...some respond that no one (or a child, etc) would intentionally cause that discomfort for no reason so they assume the abuse must be real, others go with the lie theory because they can't imagine or don't want to believe the level of sickness that would lead to abuse exists close by).But we are also very protective of children and those who are vulnerable so I couldn't guess where we land. I did mean both. I think that we want to believe that our priesthood holders are acting in good faith and it's not a bad thing. I hope that we've all but eradicated the inclination to disbelieve children, as you talk about. The kind of abuses of power that I think apply to the dynamics between men and women are subtle. I wish I could find good sources on them, but as it stands I feel I have an obligation to believe others when they relate their experiences and hope that they believe me about mine.
watermelongirl Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 I think you missed the point I was attempting to make. I'd tell you about the abuse my wife suffered at the hands of her step-father, and how her pastor stood with the step-father against her in court... but I'm not sure it would be any more enlightening than the example I've already used. I don't think I missed it. You talked about trying to stand up for a male friend versus a priesthood holder and it didn't work. It didn't work for me either. I get it. You disagree with me about it being a sexist practice to disbelieve a woman versus a priesthood holder. You seem to be arguing it's equally likely for a male. We don't have to agree about that. I kinda think I'm right, but ya know... that's the nature of an opinion. Like I said, no scientific facts on my side.
ELF1024 Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) I don't think I missed it. You talked about trying to stand up for a male friend versus a priesthood holder and it didn't work. It didn't work for me either. I get it. You disagree with me about it being a sexist practice to disbelieve a woman versus a priesthood holder. You seem to be arguing it's equally likely for a male. We don't have to agree about that. I kinda think I'm right, but ya know... that's the nature of an opinion. Like I said, no scientific facts on my side. Mostly... Holding the Priesthood, or not, made no difference in my example. My father was a Priesthood holder, I was a Priesthood holder, my best friend was a Priesthood holder. My friend was living with us, so it would have seemed that proof was rather self-evident... However, for whatever reason it didn't get resolved my liking. However, I'd say we both did the right thing and stood against it. The Lord's ways are not our ways. The Lord's time is not our time. I'm learning to be patient. Edited June 27, 2014 by ELF1024 1
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