Zakuska Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 (edited) We read the following in the book of Luke:Luke 1114 ¶And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.27 ¶And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.29 ¶And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.33 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.I've read this story many times before but I never made the connection with the Testament of Solomon until I watched the History Channel Bible special linked below.So what is the Testament of Solomon any way and why did Luke invoke it as source material?1st, It was extremely popular and ciculated in Christian circles during the time that the Bible Canon was being formulated. 2nd, It presents Solomon as not only the wisest of the Magi of the ancient world, but through the power of a "magic ring", (One Ring to Rule Them All) given to him by an Angel of the Lord, subdues Demons and uses their great power and strength to move and place the enormous stones used in the Temple construction. Beelzabub is even marked by solomons ring and the seal of God so solomon becomes the great ruler over the powers of darkness.What better source to invoke when Christ is claiming to be geater than Solomon, the ruler of the Demons who's great strength was used to build the temple? he's being accused of casting out demons In the name of Beezlabub and here he reminds his audience that Solomon cast demons out by Beelzabub through the power of God and a ring. Then he claims to be greater than solomon which would again be a claim to Godhood or at least an angel of God.This also fills in some important and powerful back story for a lot of things such as this:Matt 241 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.If it took Solomon using the underworldly strength of Demons to errect the temple, what sort of other worldly strength and power is it going to take to fulfill the Lords prediction of the impending destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by the Romans?!Text of The Testament of Solomonhttp://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/testamen.htmWiki: Testament of Solomonhttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testament_of_SolomonHistory Channel SpecialVideoLets discuss! Edited June 15, 2014 by Zakuska
Zakuska Posted June 16, 2014 Author Posted June 16, 2014 Well I guess religion isnt as popular around here as I've been lead to believe.
Zakuska Posted June 16, 2014 Author Posted June 16, 2014 I doubt the Testament of Solomon has anything to do with the Q saying quoted in Luke 11:31.Please ellaborate.
Zakuska Posted June 16, 2014 Author Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) Additionally, The New Testament itself references the Solomonic tradition. In the Gospel of Luke Jesus casts out an evil spirit causing some of the people to accuse Jesus of having an evil spirit himself. Jesus rebuked the people declaring of himself, “Behold, a greater than Solomon is here” (Luke 11:31). Some scholars believe that this verse is possibly a reference to the old apocryphal tradition of King Solomon.By referencing this tradition in the context of casting out a demon, Jesus would have been declaring He was greater than Solomon because He (Jesus) did not need a magic ring to command the evil spirits. Therefore, His power, simply by the word of His mouth, was greater.The tradition of Solomon, the belief that through various spells, incantations or divine authority a person could control various spirits became a widespread, if underground, movement. It ultimately became the foundation for western belief in magic as well as witchcraft. http://mythsofchristianity.com/magic-in-ancient-christianity/ancient-exorcism/ Edited June 16, 2014 by Zakuska 1
USU78 Posted June 16, 2014 Posted June 16, 2014 This: http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/testsolomon.html suggests an unknown date of production for the ToS, and a reliance by several ancient sources on a body of traditions about the magical construction of the First Temple.
Zakuska Posted June 16, 2014 Author Posted June 16, 2014 The Testament of SolomonABSTRACTby Richard J. Waymanrjw10@st-andrews.ac.uk[Richard Wayman is a fourth-year undergraduate at St. Mary's College in the University of St. Andrews.--JRD]The Testament of Solomon (TSol) is not really a testament, but rather an example of magical literature, to which a number of features of the genre testament have been added.The issue of Jewish or Christian origin is difficult to determine due to the syncretistic nature of magic in general, but allusions in the book suggest either Christian composition or redaction. The book contains what might be termed Jewish elements, but these are not sufficiently clear for us to postulate with certainty a Jewish work behind TSol. Most scholars argue for a date in the early third century A.D.TSol is comprised of a haggadic folktale telling how Solomon used a magic ring to force the demons to help build the Temple, and a collection of ancient magical, medical, astrological, angelological and demonological lore. The book is intended as an 'encyclopaedia of demonology' and may well have been used as a manual for exorcisms.The book stands in the developing tradition of Jewish speculation about Solomon's magic powers, and shares a number of features with Jewish magical literature, including: the use of Solomon's seal-ring, name, incantations, and similar adjurations and magical acts for controlling demons.BIBLIOGRAPHYAs per the Course Bibliography, plus:Alexander, P. S., "Incantations and Books of Magic", in Schurer, _HJP_, vol. III.1, 342-379.Schafer, P., "Jewish Magic Literature in Late Antiquity and Early Middle Ages", _JJS_ 41 (1990), 75-91.Sperber, D., "Some Rabbinic Themes in Magical Papyri", _JSJ_ 16 (1983), 93-103.© 1997Reproduction beyond fair use only on permission of the author.Back to the OT Pseud Web Page.https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/divinity/rt/otp/abstracts/tsol/
Zakuska Posted June 16, 2014 Author Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) Nothing in the saying is dependent on the Testament of Solomon. The story of the Queen of Sheba coming from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon is recounted in 1 Kings 10 and 2 Chron. 9, so there's no need to posit an extra-biblical source. Furthermore, there is no evidence that the Testament of Solomon even existed yet in the first century CE.But the question isnt anything about the Queen of Sheba... in any of the OT literature where ever is Solomon associated with exorcisms and being able to control demons. Especially Beelzebub. That is the over all context we need to be looking at. Edited June 16, 2014 by Zakuska
Zakuska Posted June 16, 2014 Author Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) The Seal of Solomon (or Ring of Solomon, Arabic Khātim Sulaymāni خاتم_سليمان) is the signet ring attributed to King Solomon in medieval Islamic tradition, later also in the Jewish Kabbalah and in Western occultism. It was often depicted in either a pentagram or hexagram shape; the latter also known as Shield of David or Star of David in Jewish tradition. This magic ring variously gave Solomon the power to command demons, genies (or jinni), or to speak with animals. Due to the proverbial wisdom of Solomon, his signet ring, or its supposed design, came to be seen as an amuletor talisman, or magical symbol or character in medieval and Renaissance-era magic, occultism and alchemy. The legend of the Seal of Solomon was developed primarily by medieval Arabic writers, who related that the ring was engraved by the name of God and was given to the king directly from heaven. The ring was made from brass and iron, and the two parts were used to seal written commands to good and evil spirits, respectively. The tale that a demon, either Asmodeus, or Sakhr one obtained possession of the ring and ruled in Solomon's stead for forty days. In a variant of the tale of the ring of Polycrates from Herodotus, the demon eventually threw the ring into the sea, where it was swallowed by a fish, caught by a fisherman, and served to Solomon.[1] In Islamic eschatology, the Beast of the Earth is equipped with both the Staff of Moses and the Seal of Solomon and uses the latter to stamp the nose of the unbelievers.[2]The date of origin legends surrounding the Seal of Solomon is difficult to establish. It is known that a legend of a magic ring with which the possessor could command demons was already current in the 1st century (Josephus 8.2 telling of one Eleazar who used such a ring in the presence of Vespasian), but the assocociation of the name of Solomon with such a ring is medieval. The Tractate Gittin (fol. 68) of the Mishnah has a story involving Solomon, Asmodeus, and a ring with the divine name engraved.[3] The specification of the design of the seal as a hexagram seems to arise from a medieval Arab tradition. The name "Solomon's seal" was given to the hexagram engraved on the bottom of drinking-cups in Arab tradition. In theArabian Nights (chapter 20), Sindbad presented Harun al-Rashid with such a cup, on which the "Table of Solomon" was engraved.[4] Hexagrams feature prominently in Jewish esoteric literature from the early medieval period, and some authors have hypothesized that the tradition of Solomon's Seal may possibly predate Islam and date to early Rabbinical esoteric tradition, or to early alchemy in Hellenistic Judaism in 3rd-century Egypt, but there is no positive evidence for this, and most scholars assume that the symbol entered the Kabbalistic tradition of medieval Spain from Arabic literature.[5] The representation as a pentagram, by contrast, seems to arise in the Western tradition of Renaissance magic (which was in turn strongly influenced by medieval Arab and Jewish occultism); White Kennett (1660–1728) makes reference to a "pentangle of Solomon" with the power of exorcising demons.[6]The hexagram or "Star of David", which became a symbol of Judaism in the modern period and was placed on the flag of Israel in 1948, has its origins in 14th-century depictions of the Seal of Solomon. In 1354, King of BohemiaCharles IV prescribed for the Jews of Prague a red flag with both David's shield and Solomon's seal, while the red flag with which the Jews met King Matthias of Hungary in the 15th century showed two pentagrams with two golden stars.[7]Peter de Abano's Heptameron (1496) makes reference to the "Pentacle of Solomon" (actually a hexagram drawn on the floor in which the magician has to stand) to invoke various demons.[8]Lippmann Moses Büschenthal (d. 1818) wrote a tragedy with the title Der Siegelring Salomonis ("the signet-ring of Solomon"). An "Order of the Seal of Solomon" was established in 1874 in Ethiopia, where the ruling houseclaimed descent from Solomon.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_Solomon Im beginning to wonder if we are seeing where Tolken got his ideas from?! Edited June 16, 2014 by Zakuska 1
Zakuska Posted June 16, 2014 Author Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) Jesus says he is "greater than Solomon" and "greater than Jonah." Does that mean that Jonah was an exorcist too? Even if an exorcism context for the saying is supposed (and I don't see that it must be), legends about Solomon's ability to cast out demons were already widely available (see Josephus, Ant. 8.2.5). I see no reason to think that Jesus (or the Q editor) must have been referring to the Testament of Solomon (which probably didn't even exist yet). Yes Jospehus 8.2.5 is one of the sources linked to in the previous post. Antiquities 8:2:5 5. Now the sagacity and wisdom which God had bestowed on Solomon was so great, that he exceeded the ancients; insomuch that he was no way inferior to the Egyptians, who are said to have been beyond all men in understanding; nay, indeed, it is evident that their sagacity was very much inferior to that of the king's. He also excelled and distinguished himself in wisdom above those who were most eminent among the Hebrews at that time for shrewdness; those I mean were Ethan, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol. He also composed books of odes and songs a thousand and five, of parables and similitudes three thousand; for he spake a parable upon every sort of tree, from the hyssop to the cedar; and in like manner also about beasts, about all sorts of living creatures, whether upon the earth, or in the seas, or in the air; for he was not unacquainted with any of their natures, nor omitted inquiries about them, but described them all like a philosopher, and demonstrated his exquisite knowledge of their several properties. God also enabled him to learn that skill which expels demons, (4) which is a science useful and sanative to men. He composed such incantations also by which distempers are alleviated. And he left behind him the manner of using exorcisms, by which they drive away demons, so that they never return; and this method of cure is of great force unto this day; for I have seen a certain man of my own country, whose name was Eleazar, releasing people that were demoniacal in the presence of Vespasian, and his sons, and his captains, and the whole multitude of his soldiers. The manner of the cure was this: He put a ring that had a Foot of one of those sorts mentioned by Solomon to the nostrils of the demoniac, after which he drew out the demon through his nostrils; and when the man fell down immediately, he abjured him to return into him no more, making still mention of Solomon, and reciting the incantations which he composed. And when Eleazar would persuade and demonstrate to the spectators that he had such a power, he set a little way off a cup or basin full of water, and commanded the demon, as he went out of the man, to overturn it, and thereby to let the spectators know that he had left the man; and when this was done, the skill and wisdom of Solomon was shown very manifestly: for which reason it is, that all men may know the vastness of Solomon's abilities, and how he was beloved of God, and that the extraordinary virtues of every kind with which this king was endowed may not be unknown to any people under the sun for this reason, I say, it is that we have proceeded to speak so largely of these matters. That reference even lends more creadance, Nevo! Which came first... TOS or Josephus? Where are the Incantations Josephus says Solomon wrote? Definately not in our Bible, but they are in TOS. Edited June 16, 2014 by Zakuska
mfbukowski Posted June 16, 2014 Posted June 16, 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_Solomon Im beginning to wonder if we are seeing where Tolken got his ideas from?! This is interesting stuff, no question but you have hit on an important point, and the reason I don't get as excited about ancient texts as others seem to. Human culture is a mixture of every story and explanation everyone has ever come up with throughout history, and is just a huge deposit of explanations. Some of those stories we call "science" because they work practically speaking, some we call "religion" because they give meaning to our lives and others we call "fiction" because they are fun to read and never meant to be "true stories" Again and again we see science getting closer to science fiction, and vice versa, and the same works for works of literature and religion- it is impossibly difficult to draw the line between what is what. So though I find such discussions fun and interesting, I do not think for a minute that they will lead to "new information" which will become relevant to our lives. The best we can hope is to find some nuggets of understanding to help us put together our own "story" that works for our own construction of the way we see the world. So for me at least, questions about the "authenticity" of a text become irrelevant, whether or not it is "historical" or an "eyewitness account" or even "true" or questions about its sources become pretty irrelevant also. They are all just stories - matter unorganized- that we get to create our own world out of, "like unto the others which have been created". So thanks for the extra "sand" for my cement mixer- I have a few holes in my world that need patching!
BCSpace Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Rudyard Kipling must have known of something like this when he wrote: The Butterfly That Stamped
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