Kgb Interrogation Meathods...

[changed]

Recently I started reading Natan Sharansky's book "Fear No Evil" - he writes about being in prison 9 years behind the iron curtain - and surviving with the help of his personal motto which was "Nothing they can do can humiliate me. I alone can humiliate myself." It might sound strange, but I started finding some of the phychological tools used by the KGB to be similar to some of the tactics currently used on the internet - whether it be in political debates, religious debates, or in any other area where an entity with an agenda is attempting to take advantage of the suggestibility of their audience.

A person's suggestibility is how willing they are to accept and act on someone else's suggestion. Interrogators seek to increase a subject's suggestibility through tactis such as:

* Sleep deprivation (how many people here have stayed up debating on the internet too late at night?)

* White noise, constant lights shining in their face (just like the fan on your computer, and the light from your screen)

* Engaging in long conversations - from the book "...the KGB now preferred to engage you in long conservations, which often lasted the whole day. They kept you here for weeks, months, even years, trying to manipulate you with explanations, threats, promises, hints, and more threats. The point of these incessant interrogations was twofold, to create an aura of legitimacy to mask what was still a legal farse, and second to induce you to reveal as much information as possible, even if it was already known by the investigators. Later, carefully selected and twisted excerpts could be used to pressure the next person: "You see? Shanransky has already told us all about this."

*repetition - repeat the same thing long enough, others become familiar with it, and eventually come to agree with it.

* "Pride-and-ego down" or attacking the source's sense of personal worth, in which they could only vindicate themselves through agreeing with their captor.

*Deception - interrogators lie about the strength of their case, push false implications, exaggerate, and misrepresent.

Different interrogation meathods have different success rates, people train themselves on how to best interrogate etc.

http://www.au.af.mil...errogations.pdf

Anyways, I thought it was interesting info. When you find someone who is being clearly dishonest with you, what meathods do you employ to elisit a confession? and what meathods have you recognized others employing against you?

I have seen a lot of the "pride and ego down" meathod - when they cannot win using logic, then the name-calling starts... I have also seen a lot of the "long conversations" with endless rationalizations and explanations meathods.

LOL, perhaps I should not post this, but as there are "interrogators" out there on the internet, I think it's important to warn people about them, and expose their tactics, don't you?

Edited July 17, 2013 by changed

[Ahab]

Interrogators seek to increase a subject's suggestibility through tactis such as:

* Sleep deprivation (how many people here have stayed up debating on the internet too late at night?)

I usually get only about 5 maybe 6 hours of sleep at night and I still stand firm on what I know is true despite suggestions to the contrary. Maybe I'm just immune to this tactic, or maybe I should learn to get by with even less sleep to increase my immunity.

* White noise, constant lights shining in their face (just like the fan on your computer, and the light from your screen)

I like white noise and I always try to have a fan on somewhere near me. For me it would be worse to be without it.

* Engaging in long conversations - from the book "...the KGB now preferred to engage you in long conservations, which often lasted the whole day. They kept you here for weeks, months, even years, trying to manipulate you with explanations, threats, promises, hints, and more threats. The point of these incessant interrogations was twofold, to create an aura of legitimacy to mask what was still a legal farse, and second to induce you to reveal as much information as possible, even if it was already known by the investigators. Later, carefully selected and twisted excerpts could be used to pressure the next person: "You see? Shanransky has already told us all about this."

Doh! There you go! You got me! No wonder I spend so much time on this board! I still don't give in to all suggestions, though.

*repetition - repeat the same thing long enough, others become familiar with it, and eventually come to agree with it.

The Church is true! The Church is true! The Church is true! And now you know it is true! Repeat after me now:

The Church is true! The Church is true! The Church is true!...

* "Pride-and-ego down" or attacking the source's sense of personal worth, in which they could only vindicate themselves through agreeing with their captor.

According to Moses, I am nothing. Must be true if it's in writing, and no truth-seeker should disagree with that idea.

*Deception - interrogators lie about the strength of their case, push false implications, exaggerate, and misrepresent.

It's not a deception unless it's a lie, though. Don't you agree?

Different interrogation meathods have different success rates, people train themselves on how to best interrogate etc.

You typed meathods 4 times. What is a meathod? You meant to type method, didn't you. Method. Method. Method. Method.

Anyways, I thought it was interesting info.

Me too.

When you find someone who is being clearly dishonest with you, what meathods do you employ to elisit a confession? and what meathods have you recognized others employing against you?

I'll just tell them they're wrong and wait for them to confess that they were wrong while I keep saying they are wrong until they stop.

Most people can't endure it for very long and will usually walk a way after a few second, thus thwarting that interrogation technique.

I have seen a lot of the "pride and ego down" meathod - when they cannot win using logic, then the name-calling starts... I have also seen a lot of the "long conversations" with endless rationalizations and explanations meathods.

Me too.

LOL, perhaps I should not post this, but as there are "interrogators" out there on the internet, I think it's important to warn people about them, and expose their tactics, don't you?

Yes. So are you now confessing to being an interrogator on this board? You should, you know. You are one of us.

[bluebell]

Recently I started reading Natan Sharansky's book "Fear No Evil" - he writes about being in prison 9 years behind the iron curtain - and surviving with the help of his personal motto which was "Nothing they can do can humiliate me. I alone can humiliate myself." It might sound strange, but I started finding some of the phychological tools used by the KGB to be similar to some of the tactics currently used on the internet - whether it be in political debates, religious debates, or in any other area where an entity with an agenda is attempting to take advantage of the suggestibility of their audience.

A person's suggestibility is how willing they are to accept and act on someone else's suggestion. Interrogators seek to increase a subject's suggestibility through tactis such as:

* Sleep deprivation (how many people here have stayed up debating on the internet too late at night?)

* White noise, constant lights shining in their face (just like the fan on your computer, and the light from your screen)

* Engaging in long conversations - from the book "...the KGB now preferred to engage you in long conservations, which often lasted the whole day. They kept you here for weeks, months, even years, trying to manipulate you with explanations, threats, promises, hints, and more threats. The point of these incessant interrogations was twofold, to create an aura of legitimacy to mask what was still a legal farse, and second to induce you to reveal as much information as possible, even if it was already known by the investigators. Later, carefully selected and twisted excerpts could be used to pressure the next person: "You see? Shanransky has already told us all about this."

*repetition - repeat the same thing long enough, others become familiar with it, and eventually come to agree with it.

* "Pride-and-ego down" or attacking the source's sense of personal worth, in which they could only vindicate themselves through agreeing with their captor.

*Deception - interrogators lie about the strength of their case, push false implications, exaggerate, and misrepresent.

Different interrogation meathods have different success rates, people train themselves on how to best interrogate etc.

http://www.au.af.mil...errogations.pdf

Anyways, I thought it was interesting info. When you find someone who is being clearly dishonest with you, what meathods do you employ to elisit a confession? and what meathods have you recognized others employing against you?

I have seen a lot of the "pride and ego down" meathod - when they cannot win using logic, then the name-calling starts... I have also seen a lot of the "long conversations" with endless rationalizations and explanations meathods.

LOL, perhaps I should not post this, but as there are "interrogators" out there on the internet, I think it's important to warn people about them, and expose their tactics, don't you?

I don't think you can count the first couple on the list, because they are not something that anyone is doing to another person. If someone becomes sleep deprived or has issues with the light from their computer because they are online so much, they have only themselves to blame.

[Deborah]

I think the tactics on the internet are simple bullying in some cases.

[Calm]

I don't think you can count the first couple on the list, because they are not something that anyone is doing to another person. If someone becomes sleep deprived or has issues with the light from their computer because they are online so much, they have only themselves to blame.

I would assume that most of us also get up from the computer from time to time and go get something to eat, use the facilities, have conversations with real people in our lives, etc. Having those kinds of breaks makes a huge difference to someone's resistance.

[volgadon]

There is a huge difference between staying up late at night on the internet to debate someone, and being summoned into a room in the Lyubyanka, being told that the officer would be there shortly to interview you, and then being forced to remain upright and awake for 48 hours, with no access to a bathroom, either.

[Calm]

There is a huge difference between staying up late at night on the internet to debate someone, and being summoned into a room in the Lyubyanka, being told that the officer would be there shortly to interview you, and then being forced to remain upright and awake for 48 hours, with no access to a bathroom, either.

Honestly, the level of fear involved in such interrogations would be so acute, the idea of comparing the two makes no sense to me even if the other aspects were more similar. The fact that they aren't, that most important, one had total control over one's actions, can leave the computer at anytime removes any similarity left over from the other extreme differences.

If one wants to examine behaviour influences on internet behaviour, there are a lot more other things that are more similar than KGB techniques.

Edited July 18, 2013 by calmoriah

[Robert F. Smith]

.......................................

Anyways, I thought it was interesting info. When you find someone who is being clearly dishonest with you, what meathods do you employ to elisit a confession? and what meathods have you recognized others employing against you?

I have seen a lot of the "pride and ego down" meathod - when they cannot win using logic, then the name-calling starts... I have also seen a lot of the "long conversations" with endless rationalizations and explanations meathods.

......................................................

Even the most experienced interrogators have difficulty knowing when someone is lying, and (contra **** Chaney) abusive techniques do not work well. Clever interrogators try to establish some kind of rapport with their captives, and are very successful in eliciting important information. The U.S. Army field manual on interrogation is the best source of information on successful methods.

You left out one method used by some on this board: Out and out lying. I knew of a missionary in the Texas Dallas Mission many years ago who deliberately lied during a debate with a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary -- just to win the debate (ego?). One of his best friends was thoroughly disgusted by that unseemly act, and never stopped talking about it. As though God needs someone to lie on His behalf!!

[thesometimesaint]

Recently I started reading Natan Sharansky's book "Fear No Evil" - he writes about being in prison 9 years behind the iron curtain - and surviving with the help of his personal motto which was "Nothing they can do can humiliate me. I alone can humiliate myself." It might sound strange, but I started finding some of the phychological tools used by the KGB to be similar to some of the tactics currently used on the internet - whether it be in political debates, religious debates, or in any other area where an entity with an agenda is attempting to take advantage of the suggestibility of their audience.

A person's suggestibility is how willing they are to accept and act on someone else's suggestion. Interrogators seek to increase a subject's suggestibility through tactis such as:

* Sleep deprivation (how many people here have stayed up debating on the internet too late at night?)

* White noise, constant lights shining in their face (just like the fan on your computer, and the light from your screen)

* Engaging in long conversations - from the book "...the KGB now preferred to engage you in long conservations, which often lasted the whole day. They kept you here for weeks, months, even years, trying to manipulate you with explanations, threats, promises, hints, and more threats. The point of these incessant interrogations was twofold, to create an aura of legitimacy to mask what was still a legal farse, and second to induce you to reveal as much information as possible, even if it was already known by the investigators. Later, carefully selected and twisted excerpts could be used to pressure the next person: "You see? Shanransky has already told us all about this."

*repetition - repeat the same thing long enough, others become familiar with it, and eventually come to agree with it.

* "Pride-and-ego down" or attacking the source's sense of personal worth, in which they could only vindicate themselves through agreeing with their captor.

*Deception - interrogators lie about the strength of their case, push false implications, exaggerate, and misrepresent.

Different interrogation meathods have different success rates, people train themselves on how to best interrogate etc.

http://www.au.af.mil...errogations.pdf

Anyways, I thought it was interesting info. When you find someone who is being clearly dishonest with you, what meathods do you employ to elisit a confession? and what meathods have you recognized others employing against you?

I have seen a lot of the "pride and ego down" meathod - when they cannot win using logic, then the name-calling starts... I have also seen a lot of the "long conversations" with endless rationalizations and explanations meathods.

LOL, perhaps I should not post this, but as there are "interrogators" out there on the internet, I think it's important to warn people about them, and expose their tactics, don't you?

The only way to get actionable, accurate information is to establish a personal relationship of trust with the person being interrogated. To use the threat of force or actual force eliminates the possibility of getting actionable, accurate information.

[changed]

I still stand firm on what I know is true despite suggestions to the contrary.

Have you ever changed your opinion on anything? I'm not sure that it is completely healthy to never change on anything. I still have a strong testimony, but there are many details of who people are, and how it all works out, that I have changed my mind on - I don't just get on to debate, I get on to listen, read, and consider the evidence too - hopefully everyone does that.

I like white noise and I always try to have a fan on somewhere near me. For me it would be worse to be without it.

At a recent science fair I judged at, one of the kids did a sleep analysis of those with fans, and those without. Those who liked to have their fan on reported better sleep... although those who did not use a fan were very adamant about not liking it...

Another part of the sleep study was how many hours, and how restful someone's sleep was as a function of how many electronic gagets they had in the house - the more gagets they had (phones, computers, TV's, radios) the fewer hours of sleep they got, and the worse their sleep was.... it was just an elementary kid interviewing a bunch of their friends/neighbors, but I believe her results.

The Church is true! The Church is true! The Church is true! And now you know it is true! Repeat after me now:

The Church is true! The Church is true! The Church is true!...

You have to admit, some of the same topics are recycled on here quite a bit... perhaps those who decide to create yet another thread on one of the popular topics shouldbe required to read through all of the old threads on said topic first, and prove that their thread is unique in some way before re-hashing it yet again?

According to Moses, I am nothing. Must be true if it's in writing, and no truth-seeker should disagree with that idea.

We start as nothing, but as children of God we have infinite potential! Although personal attacks don't bother me as much as when those I love (like Heavenly Father and Jesus) are attacked and misrepresented.

I'll just tell them they're wrong and wait for them to confess that they were wrong while I keep saying they are wrong until they stop.

Most people can't endure it for very long and will usually walk a way after a few second, thus thwarting that interrogation technique.

LOL, I'll have to rememebr that tactic .

Yes. So are you now confessing to being an interrogator on this board? You should, you know. You are one of us.

I would love to be in the "one of us" club! United with one heart and one mind... beats being off on your own, all alone, in some anti-social corner... some clubs are good to be a part of .

I don't think you can count the first couple on the list, because they are not something that anyone is doing to another person. If someone becomes sleep deprived or has issues with the light from their computer because they are online so much, they have only themselves to blame.

If someone walks aournd your neighborhood spraypainting buildings and signs in your area, do you sit by and do nothing? or do you feel obligated to go out on the streets and clean up the mess, set up a neighborhood watch, try to catch the perpetrator and talk some sense in to them, give them something construtive to do etc. etc.? Is what is happening on the internet any different? Aren't we all obligated to some degree to get on the computer occationally (moderation in all things of coarse) to correct misunderstandings, reach out to those in need, send out warm happy loving vibes to the world? No one is an island, I think we are all connected, and that what one person does changes everyone else too.. jmo.

Honestly, the level of fear involved in such interrogations would be so acute, the idea of comparing the two makes no sense to me even if the other aspects were more similar. The fact that they aren't, that most important, one had total control over one's actions, can leave the computer at anytime removes any similarity left over from the other extreme differences.

The level of fear involved... Natan sharkansky ended up in prison for standing up for political views, standing against anti-semitism, fighting for freedom. In or out of jail, he was not free because of the society he was forced to be living within... are there not real fears in the world? isn't that why everyone gets on the internet, is to fight against organizations like the KGB? aren't there real risks invovled if misinformation is left unchecked, if everyone just leaves the computer? Yes, we can leave the computer, but we cannot easily leave this world - the world is our prison, and some of the other people here are the guards.

If one wants to examine behaviour influences on internet behaviour, there are a lot more other things that are more similar than KGB techniques.

Mark Twain once said "If you want to tell the truth, you must lie. You must exaggerate the truth by measure, or your audience will not see it." ... going to the extremes of it all is an exaggeration, but I think a useful one.

Clever interrogators try to establish some kind of rapport with their captives,

Yes, honey gathers more bees than lemon juice... it is harder to establish rapport with those you are not physically face to face with though, as there is so much body language that you miss out on etc. etc. although it is nice to have the freedom of really thinking through a repsonse, being able to do a little research, having time to gather your repsonse, etc. etc. which you have on the net.

You left out one method used by some on this board: Out and out lying. I knew of a missionary in the Texas Dallas Mission many years ago who deliberately lied during a debate with a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary -- just to win the debate (ego?). One of his best friends was thoroughly disgusted by that unseemly act, and never stopped talking about it. As though God needs someone to lie on His behalf!!

I had deception on there, and yes, that is always sad when someone lies thinking perhaps that "the end justifies the means". ... like so many conspiracy theories - there are a few legitimate concerns perhaps, but then they start exaggerating, and lieing which discredits all of the valid points they have made in most people's mind. ... I've decided that most people lie (truth is always debatable) - some knowingly, some not, and you just have to separate the wheat from the tares in all of it.

The only way to get actionable, accurate information is to establish a personal relationship of trust with the person being interrogated. To use the threat of force or actual force eliminates the possibility of getting actionable, accurate information.

In this respect, the internet is a "safe" place to stand on a soapbox... I think some people are actually more honest with their feelings/concerns here than they would be if their mother were standing there looking at them etc. etc. there is a certain amount of freedom that comes from anonominity, which I like.... although sometimes this means people are not as polite as they might be in person... and I think internet mentality is now spilling out into the streets, that everyone has become more comfortable saying what they think in real life without worrying about who they might offend etc. etc.

It would be nice if we could all learn how to keep the honesty, while not also losing civility.

Edited July 18, 2013 by changed

[Ahab]

You left out one method used by some on this board: Out and out lying. I knew of a missionary in the Texas Dallas Mission many years ago who deliberately lied during a debate with a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary -- just to win the debate (ego?). One of his best friends was thoroughly disgusted by that unseemly act, and never stopped talking about it. As though God needs someone to lie on His behalf!!

Telling lies as an interrogation technique, though? Why would someone do that to get information from the one they're interrogating? Oh, I think I see now, maybe to try to make them feel defensive and say what they really did or thought to try to clear up the misrepresentations made by the one who is lying. I'm guessing propaganda might work too, aka false advertising, and probably also even when the one who is lying doesn't know they are lying or saying something that isn't the truth.

I think being a good interrogator is basically about being a good "questioner", and many times the person asking questions can know more than they are telling while hoping the one they're questioning will just share what they know for their answer.

[Calm]

Those who liked to have their fan on reported better sleep... although those who did not use a fan were very adamant about not liking it...

One gets used to it, too used to it unfortunately. I find it impossible to sleep without it. However, besides having a sleep disorder and too easily woken up by dogs barking at or roosters crowing at night (we have a rooster around here who seems to think the sun rises at 3 in the morning...though I try to be kind and imagine it is warning off the cats and foxes and stray dogs from its ladies) or cars driving by during the day if I am sleeping then, I have ringing in the ears that can become almost a symphony (literally, it morphs into complicated music for some reason) and keep me awake just because it is interesting to listen too, lol.

[volgadon]

The only way to get actionable, accurate information is to establish a personal relationship of trust with the person being interrogated. To use the threat of force or actual force eliminates the possibility of getting actionable, accurate information.

If not overdone, the possibility of force just in the background can be very effective when combined with a rapport of sorts. At any rate, the KGB goal was as much to inspire fear and uncertainty, as well as extracting confessions. This fear would help quash unrest, break up nationalist dissidents, and ensure a steady stream of informants snitching on their own accord.

[volgadon]

The level of fear involved... Natan sharkansky ended up in prison for standing up for political views, standing against anti-semitism, fighting for freedom. In or out of jail, he was not free because of the society he was forced to be living within... are there not real fears in the world? isn't that why everyone gets on the internet, is to fight against organizations like the KGB? aren't there real risks invovled if misinformation is left unchecked, if everyone just leaves the computer? Yes, we can leave the computer, but we cannot easily leave this world - the world is our prison, and some of the other people here are the guards.

From Graham Greene's Travels With My Aunt.

"I can't think why you persist in calling it a theatre. "All the world's a stage," of course, but a metaphor as general as that loses all its meaning."

To call the world our prison and some of the people in it the guards, and compare it to the KGB, weakens your postion, and renders it practically meaningless.

[changed]

From Graham Greene's Travels With My Aunt.

"I can't think why you persist in calling it a theatre. "All the world's a stage," of course, but a metaphor as general as that loses all its meaning."

To call the world our prison and some of the people in it the guards, and compare it to the KGB, weakens your postion, and renders it practically meaningless.

so, you believe ...All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth?

I do believe that watered down versions of the KGB do in fact exist, and that there are those, who under the guise of things like political correctness, or what they define as being "fair" act as guards of a sort... there is nothing new under the sun, what exists now existed behind the iron curtain once too, similar tactics are used over and over again.

Edited July 19, 2013 by changed

[volgadon]

so, you believe ...All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth?

I do believe that watered down versions of the KGB do in fact exist, and that there are those, who under the guise of things like political correctness, or what they define as being "fair" act as guards of a sort... there is nothing new under the sun, what exists now existed behind the iron curtain once too, similar tactics are used over and over again.

If so, then it is so watered down as to mean precisely nothing. I can spit on political correctness and not be worked over by a specialist in physical beatings, and forced to remain upright for several days, and more. If I were to apply your logic, my newborn is a KGB operative, as she specialises in ongoing sleep deprivation for her parents.

[Ahab]

From Graham Greene's Travels With My Aunt.

"I can't think why you persist in calling it a theatre. "All the world's a stage," of course, but a metaphor as general as that loses all its meaning."

To call the world our prison and some of the people in it the guards, and compare it to the KGB, weakens your postion, and renders it practically meaningless.

Another example of a tactic used in interrogation. Tell someone their position is weak and meaningless and then just wait for what they'll say in response, badgering them some more if that doesn't work.

There are many ways to get information from people and all you need is a way to get people to talk to share what they know, or whatever they think they know, or whatever they will say when they tell you something.

[volgadon]

Another example of a tactic used in interrogation. Tell someone their position is weak and meaningless and then just wait for what they'll say in response, badgering them some more if that doesn't work.

There are many ways to get information from people and all you need is a way to get people to talk to share what they know, or whatever they think they know, or whatever they will say when they tell you something.

Got it, everything is an interrogation tactic. Everything is everything, nothing is everything, everything is nothing, nothing is nothing.

[volgadon]

I also really don't understand how anyone reading Scharansky's book can make these comparisons.

[Ahab]

Got it, everything is an interrogation tactic. Everything is everything, nothing is everything, everything is nothing, nothing is nothing.

You're being sly and trying to build a repor with me, aren't cha? Yeah, I can tell. Trying to get me to talk some more.

Your ridiculous statement is just another way of trying to get me to tell you more of what I know, and think, and have to say.

Ah but you won't get me to give in to that tactic. I'm too smart for that to work on me. Are you ready to try something else now?

(psst, keep playing along, so we can show people some more about what goes on during an interrogation)

[Ahab]

I also really don't understand how anyone reading Scharansky's book can make these comparisons.

Someone skilled in interrogation techniques could probably get someone like changed to explain it. His position doesn't have to be right to be strong and have some kind of meaning. If you want to know how he thinks that, and why he does, then get him to talk.

[thesometimesaint]

In this respect, the internet is a "safe" place to stand on a soapbox... I think some people are actually more honest with their feelings/concerns here than they would be if their mother were standing there looking at them etc. etc. there is a certain amount of freedom that comes from anonominity, which I like.... although sometimes this means people are not as polite as they might be in person... and I think internet mentality is now spilling out into the streets, that everyone has become more comfortable saying what they think in real life without worrying about who they might offend etc. etc.

It would be nice if we could all learn how to keep the honesty, while not also losing civility.

With the recent revelations of NSA massive unwarranted spying on every American. The Mail, the Telephone, the Internet, even private conversations behind closed doors are no longer a safe places. It is a well known sociological function that a watched people behave differently than an unwatched people.

There is never any excuse to not be honest and civil.

[Calm]

If I were to apply your logic, my newborn is a KGB operative, as she specialises in ongoing sleep deprivation for her parents.

Hate to tell you this, but all children under the age of five are KGB operatives...