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The Muslim Angle In The Boston Bombing Story


Daniel Peterson

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Isn't it interesting that the killings in the bible were done by men but blamed on God? In another thread they're discussing the BoM and the killing of Laban. And how could God demand killing and then command "thou shalt not kill". Is it men just thinking they're told to kill from above or is it really happening? How do we know? What about the MMM, I'm sure this may have crossed some minds here. It did mine. Here we have a religious killing also, with an Islamic bend? Sometimes religion or what it perpetuates is so unkind. I think there was a reason we have "thou shalt not kill".

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Unfortunately, the louder voices are the ones heard and the terrorists are the louder voices. Perhaps if the peaceful members of the faith were to speak more loudly the image would change. There have been a few outspoken Muslims, and surprisingly they seem to be mostly women, but they do fear for their lives. And when you have fathers killing their daughters in this country because of their "faith" it causes eyebrows to raise.

Ignorance is what feeds fear, but how do you overcome the ignorance of those who use the name of faith to perpetrate such horrid deeds. I'm truly wanting to know. It seems to me it isn't the religion which is motivating such actions but messed up and hateful people using the religion to justify their actions. But given the ignorance of the majority of people about the faith how do you educate and teach when the true believers in the peaceful religion don't speak out more? A great deal of persecution toward Christ and toward the early saints was based on ignorance, but when fear is at the forefront it's hard to open the mind to learning.

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In another thread they're discussing the BoM and the killing of Laban. And how could God demand killing and then command "thou shalt not kill".

But he does not command "thou shalt not kill", he commands "thou shalt not unlawfully kill". There is no contradiction there.
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What about the MMM, I'm sure this may have crossed some minds here. It did mine.

CFR that the men believed God had told them to kill the travelers (I don't remember if they did or didn't...my memory says there was justification that this was a righteous killing, but not if some went so far as to claim God did and it seems unlikely to me that they would ask for input from the Prophet and then claim such).
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Unfortunately, the louder voices are the ones heard and the terrorists are the louder voices. Perhaps if the peaceful members of the faith were to speak more loudly the image would change. There have been a few outspoken Muslims, and surprisingly they seem to be mostly women, but they do fear for their lives. And when you have fathers killing their daughters in this country because of their "faith" it causes eyebrows to raise.

Ignorance is what feeds fear, but how do you overcome the ignorance of those who use the name of faith to perpetrate such horrid deeds. I'm truly wanting to know. It seems to me it isn't the religion which is motivating such actions but messed up and hateful people using the religion to justify their actions. But given the ignorance of the majority of people about the faith how do you educate and teach when the true believers in the peaceful religion don't speak out more? A great deal of persecution toward Christ and toward the early saints was based on ignorance, but when fear is at the forefront it's hard to open the mind to learning.

Do we blame all Christians when the KKK does some evil act?

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Do we blame all Christians when the KKK does some evil act?

Some people do. There are plenty of people out there these days that point to Christianity and various forms of it as fostering violence. Some go to the extent to claim all religion does.
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I must preface this post disclosing my own ignorance as to Islamic doctrines. This is especially true regarding the Koran. I'm hardly an expert on it, nor even fmailiar with it except the verses here and there which I come across from others. I am also highly biased against those who say that they studieed Islam and found that Islam is maligned with hateful and vengeful doctrinal orthodoxies, again, particularly from the Koran. That said, here are my concerns.

I know that Muslims very much believe that allah is just and merciful. That to forgive others pleases Allah. But of the three Abrahamic religions, is not Islam the only one which has doctrines which essencially say "kill thine enemy"? If so I'm very willing to entertain the likely probability that i have heard this and / or read this out of context. But, nevertheless, is it not so? This to me would explain why today Islam is so widely used as an excuse to kill others.

Christians and Jews are indeed historically guilty of going out and killing in the name of God but frankly we need to dig back through hundreds of centuries of history such as to the Crusades to find such actions taken. There's also the wars whic plagued Ireland between Protestants and Catholics but I do not think it's one needs to stretch very hard to trace their contention to political origins. Nor will one hardly find a constant anf frequent world-wide effort to dominate tohers and to use violence to cleanse the earth of the unfaithful. However, Islam, from my understanding, especially in the latter portions of Muhammad's teachings, very much advocates taking up the sword, in the name of Allah and fight the unrighteous / unfaithful.

There's also the fact that buth Judaic and Christan and LDS Christian moments where God has commanded to kill. Outside the atmosphere of war, which I do not think Christians, Jews, or Muslims disagree God does allow man to kill, there is the slaughtering of the Canaanites which doctrinally applies to Christians and Jews and as Tecanda pointed out, the killing of Laban which doctirnally applies directly and perhaps exclusively to LDS Christianity. I do think that we can learn the most from God's nature from reading into the latter situation of Nephi and Laban. Nephi was openly hesitant to carry out God's will and kill Laban and Laban layed drunk and incapacitated. Nephi had to know for sure that killing Laban was God's will before carrying it out. We also learn that God had a specific purpose in having Laban killed. Likewise, I've no doubt the Israelites pondered upon the weight to kill the Canaanites and did not do so 9those who did) until after they knew it was indeed the Lord's will. In both situations we also learn that it was isolated geogrphically (in a specified land for Israel and in laban's house for Nephi). That these situations were NOT an open invite to kill just because others are infidels. Here is where I find the biggest difference between Islam and the two other religions, Judaism and Christianity. while the latter two have never believed there ot be God's doctrine to spread forth and kill in the name of God, my understanding is that there are enough doctrinal verses in the koran to justtify doing just that.

I've known many muslims in my life and they are a good people. I have always admired their moral living and scriptural studies. I am expressing my concerns regarding one specific area of doctrinal beliefs. Any insights or clarifications, even simple ones, I would be grateful.

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But of the three Abrahamic religions, is not Islam the only one which has doctrines which essencially say "kill thine enemy"?

The Bible can be used to show the same thing....where God commanded the Israelites to completely wipe out their enemies.
the latter two have never believed there ot be God's doctrine to spread forth and kill in the name of God
I am not sure you can demonstrate this as there seems to be some evidence from what I've read that there has been stages in both faiths where this was the attitude. The Crusades were for some not just about recovering Jerusalem from the pagan/infidel, but destroying them and spreading the true faith. The attitude of the Israelites at least during the conquering of Israel from the Canaanities may have been limited to that specific area, but if the culture had been more expansive, perhaps it would have taken on a more global approach.
Christians and Jews are indeed historically guilty of going out and killing in the name of God but frankly we need to dig back through hundreds of centuries of history such as to the Crusades to find such actions taken.
Which means it can be done, it is just unlikely to happen nowadays with Christians and Jews...well, depending on where one lives.

My opinion is that there is greater correlation between the location of the individual and the likelihood of them being violent for religious reasons than the religion itself. And of course it is not simply the geographical nature of the location that leads to a higher probability but the cultural and social nature of the region.

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That these situations were NOT an open invite to kill just because others are infidels.
This is a very strong accusation. Rather than relying on others to prove you are wrong, I think before you make it you should demonstrate that you are right...that the Koran as well as its prophet preached this. I don't think it is right to repeat it just because it is an impression you've received.
I've known many muslims in my life and they are a good people. I have always admired their moral living and scriptural studies.
Then this should cause you concern for making any global accusation as you have about their faith. They just may not be the exception that you seem to be painting them as, but the rule and if so, then how can it be their faith that promotes the violent acts rather than the peacefulness that most Muslims participate in?

My question is do the Muslim terrorists actually look at what they are doing as spreading the faith through violence or do they see it as retribution for past acts of oppression by political nations that happened to be Christian? If the latter, then how is that any less political than the Irish war between Protestants and Catholics?

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This is a very strong accusation. Rather than relying on others to prove you are wrong, I think before you make it you should demonstrate that you are right...that the Koran as well as its prophet preached this. I don't think it is right to repeat it just because it is an impression you've received.

I am openly addressing my understanding. I openly admitto ignorance and that I am likely understanding these doctrines to be out of context. If I were to quotep assages from the Koran to "back up" wmy understanding than I fear I'll find myself doing to others what i do not want to be done to me. For example, I do not like those who study mormonism and conclude it's Satanic or inspired form the Masons or anything of the such. i deliberately omit citing verses fromthe koran for this vary reason: to avoid misrepresenting what Muslims believe. Instead i openly plead ignorant on this subject and offer an invite from those who know far more onthis topic than I to clarify. Even simply clarifications would be appreciated.

then how can it be their faith that promotes the violent acts rather than the peacefulness that most Muslims participate in?

That was actually my point.

My question is do the Muslim terrorists actually look at what they are doing as spreading the faith through violence or do they see it as retribution for past acts of oppression by political nations that happened to be Christian? If the latter, then how is that any less political than the Irish war between Protestants and Catholics?

My view is that Muslim expremists ("Islamists") use religion to disguise their true motive of hate for western values. They use religion as an excuse, not the reason to act out on violence. But to make clear, I do not agree with those who attempt to equate the violence found in the name o Islam with violence from those who do so inthe name of other faiths. To me violence in the name of allah far outweighs violence from any other religious group save atheists.

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Just for clarification:

I am also highly biased against those who say that they studieed Islam and found that Islam is maligned with hateful and vengeful doctrinal orthodoxies, again, particularly from the Koran.
Do you mean here that you are biased against those who support the idea that Islam in a global sense (as opposed to the unorthodox interpretations that may be followed by an insignificant or maybe even significant minority) does not include doctrine that promotes hate and revenge?
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Just for clarification:

Do you mean here that you are biased against those who support the idea that Islam in a global sense (as opposed to the unorthodox interpretations that may be followed by an insignificant or maybe even significant minority) does not include doctrine that promotes hate and revenge?

Here I mean folks like Robert Spencer who is *very* well studied on Islam and presents them as a hatefilled group of religious people all due to their fundamental doctrines.

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I am openly addressing my understanding. I openly admitto ignorance and that I am likely understanding these doctrines to be out of context. If I were to quotep assages from the Koran to "back up" wmy understanding than I fear I'll find myself doing to others what i do not want to be done to me.

But due to how you have written it and what I quoted, you come across as presenting "this is what I hear, prove it wrong" not "I don't know about this aspect of the faith, can you inform me". Even if you don't believe such or are uncertain, you are not giving equal weight to the other possibilities.

I understand that you are not claiming knowledge, but the presentation of lack of knowledge can matter.

For example, Huckabee's response to a question of whether or not LDS were Christian (I believe that was the context) was "don't they believe Jesus and Satan are brothers?" He is presenting himself as ignorant looking for information, but the way it was done was to share an anti-mormon tidbit and then ask for a denial or confirmation.

Post 18 is a better approach, imo.

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Here I mean folks like Robert Spencer who is *very* well studied on Islam and presents them as a hatefilled group of religious people all due to their fundamental doctrines.

Unless my reading is really screwed up, then I think you mean "I have found that Islam is maligned..." rather than the way it is done because it looks like you are talking about those who claim it is maligned as the phrase following the "and" could be given the subject of "those who say they studied Islam" because it is confusing that you meant those who claimed they have, but really haven't....

No big deal, it was just confusing to me...

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But due to how you have written it and what I quoted, you come across as presenting "this is what I hear, prove it wrong" not "I don't know about this aspect of the faith, can you inform me". Even if you don't believe such or are uncertain, you are not giving equal weight to the other possibilities.

Apologies if my posts came across that way. I did write the following:

I'm very willing to entertain the likely probability that i have heard this and / or read this out of context

and:

Any insights or clarifications, even simple ones, I would be grateful

I made these statements precisely to in an attempt to avoid coming across of "prove me wrong" and to state anything about Muslims as an absolute fact while all along it is not and accurate reflection fof their doctrinal beliefs.

For example, Huckabee's response to a question of whether or not LDS were Christian (I believe that was the context) was "don't they believe Jesus and Satan are brothers?" He is presenting himself as ignorant looking for information, but the way it was done was to share an anti-mormon tidbit and then ask for a denial or confirmation.

Correct. And Huckabee was fully knowledgable about the doctrinal contraveries regarding Jesus and Satan being brothers. He was deliberately being deceptive in my view.

Post 18 is a better approach, imo.

Why, thank you kindly, mam. :air_kiss:

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