After Jesus Christ, What?

[EllenMaksoud]

For reasons that are not clear to me, I feel a passion about Jesus Christ and Mary Madeline. I've never been involved, or studied a belief system that practices a living Jesus Christ after the crucifixion except The Church Of Jesus of Later Day Saints. I'll have to do more research to try to deterimine how long Jesus Christ ministered in the Americas.

There is very little documentation, but even so, I want to know more about what happened after. There is a fairly strong theory that Mary lived out her live in Scotland, and was buried on the Isle of Ione. I would not be hard convince that Jesus Christ had offspring by Mary. After all, lots of what we know about early church history was written by what became the old apostate Catholic Church.

Who knows, maybe I will have to wait until I move on.

[Freedom]

Nothing is written so nothing is known. It seems odd that she would travel so such a distant and hostile land. Scotland wasn't exactly civilized at that time and it would have been very very cold and no hebrew markets. If Jesus was married, it could have just as easily been to someone names Burtha; I am not convinced that Mary was his wife.

[Alan]

Nothing is written so nothing is known. It seems odd that she would travel so such a distant and hostile land. Scotland wasn't exactly civilized at that time and it would have been very very cold and no hebrew markets. If Jesus was married, it could have just as easily been to someone names Burtha; I am not convinced that Mary was his wife.

Contrary to popular belief the British Isles, including Scotland, were very civilised at that time. I would also point out that Scotland was not as cold as it is now. Grapes were grown there for example.

Britain was a great seat of learning and many came here to study at, what we would today call universities. The Romans did not civilise the Britons. They imprinted their culture to create a Romano-British culture, a sort of hybrid.

It was the Angles and Saxons (collectively became known as the English) who were uncivilised by comparison, but they came after the Roman occupancy ended and many centuries after Mary et al.

There is certainly a strong tradition of Mary the mother of Jesus coming to Britain with John. The Celtic Church was already established in Britain (though not among the English) when St Augustine came here with his Roman brand of christianity. The Celts were christian already (having embraced the faith in the first and early second century - the Druidic culture had no problem conforming to the Christian faith), had Bishops etc, and claimed authority from the apostle John. Britain was also a safe haven from persecution.

While there is no conclusive evidence regarding any of the Mary's, it is likely that many prominent Christians came here to avoid the ravages of persecution and a general apostacy that was gathering pace by the day elsewhere.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Alan

[Nathair/|\]

And did those feet in ancient time.

Walk upon Englands mountains green:

And was the holy Lamb of God,

On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,

Shine forth upon our clouded hills?

And was Jerusalem builded here,

Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;

Bring me my Arrows of desire:

Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!

Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,

Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:

Till we have built Jerusalem,

In Englands green & pleasant Land

by the poet/mystic/Druid William Blake.

[CASteinman]

For reasons that are not clear to me, I feel a passion about Jesus Christ and Mary Madeline. I've never been involved, or studied a belief system that practices a living Jesus Christ after the crucifixion except The Church Of Jesus of Later Day Saints. I'll have to do more research to try to deterimine how long Jesus Christ ministered in the Americas.

There is very little documentation, but even so, I want to know more about what happened after. There is a fairly strong theory that Mary lived out her live in Scotland, and was buried on the Isle of Ione. I would not be hard convince that Jesus Christ had offspring by Mary. After all, lots of what we know about early church history was written by what became the old apostate Catholic Church.

Who knows, maybe I will have to wait until I move on.

Best evidence indicates she lived and died in Ephesus.

[Questing Beast]

Other than irrational enthusiasm (which is fun to feel, for any subject), what purpose is there in pursuing any of this sort of thing? So imagine that you actually do discover which way the story went down: what will it give you? I suppose you are hoping for a greater earthly connection to Jesus Christ, to "God", though all of this speculation. Wanting a more tangible connection to "God" is certainly at the root of all such "urban legends"....

[Ron Beron]

For reasons that are not clear to me, I feel a passion about Jesus Christ and Mary Madeline. I've never been involved, or studied a belief system that practices a living Jesus Christ after the crucifixion except The Church Of Jesus of Later Day Saints. I'll have to do more research to try to deterimine how long Jesus Christ ministered in the Americas.

There is very little documentation, but even so, I want to know more about what happened after. There is a fairly strong theory that Mary lived out her live in Scotland, and was buried on the Isle of Ione. I would not be hard convince that Jesus Christ had offspring by Mary. After all, lots of what we know about early church history was written by what became the old apostate Catholic Church.

Who knows, maybe I will have to wait until I move on.

The legend states that she accompanied Mary, the mother, to Ephesus as Steinman states.

[EllenMaksoud]

The legend states that she accompanied Mary, the mother, to Ephesus as Steinman states.

There are other legends also, so in my opinion there is no "Go To", legend. We may not solve it until the end. It just does not seem reasonable that a 30 year old man of that time would not have a wife. It is not my intention to devalue Jesus Christ. I think that to say he was celibate means that he did not fully experience life as a Man, and a father. Remember, a lot of this philosophy of the aloofness of Jesus Christ came from the Apostate Church, so, in my opinion, we must be willing to prayerfully search for the fullness of the truth.

This should be a really easy step for Mormons. A theology that teaches that in the fullness of time, we will grow to be like God, must accept that Jesus Christ was fully man and fully God. Our own theology accepts the virgin birth, his being the son of God, his miracles (I can do nothing but what the Father allows, John 5:30) So, Jesus Christ got his power from Heavenly Father.

Eventually, in the Celestial Kingdom, we will be more like God, and like Jesus Christ, we will get our power from the Father.

[Mark Beesley]

There are other legends also, so in my opinion there is no "Go To", legend. We may not solve it until the end. It just does not seem reasonable that a 30 year old man of that time would not have a wife.

When I was a youngster I worked one summer in the berry fields near Santa Cruz. (This was before child labor laws decided children should get an allowance instead of working for their spending money.) I was talking with a girl in the fields one day, and she expressed that she didn't like Mormons because we thought Jesus was married. That was news to me, and I told her we didn't believe that. But, when I related the incident to my dad that evening, he said that it was very likely that Jesus was married, and that Mary Magdalene was His wife. Boy, did I get to eat crow the next day.

On my mission in Germany I knew an elder from Switzerland who used to regale us at District Meetings with the European legends of how Jesus, as a child, would make clay figurines and bring them to life, or would strike neighborhood bullies dead and then have to bring them back to life when His mom found out. Included were the stories of how Mary Magdalene fled, after the the crucifixion, with one daughter and settled in France.

I can imagine that there would have been some cause for Mary and any offspring to fear for their lives from the same men who had just had the Savior murdered. The Jewish hierarchy could very well have had reason to fear a rallying around the feared man's family, and been motivated to eliminate them one way or another.

Fun stuff to hear, fun to speculate on, and discussions of such are, curiously, infinitely more edifying than ragging on the Maxwell Institute.

[EllenMaksoud]

When I was a youngster I worked one summer in the berry fields near Santa Cruz. (This was before child labor laws decided children should get an allowance instead of working for their spending money.) I was talking with a girl in the fields one day, and she expressed that she didn't like Mormons because we thought Jesus was married. That was news to me, and I told her we didn't believe that. But, when I related the incident to my dad that evening, he said that it was very likely that Jesus was married, and that Mary Magdalene was His wife. Boy, did I get to eat crow the next day.

Um who is the Maxwell Institute?

In digging around in early history (0-600 AD) I read about some really fun things. We have to keep in mind that in spite of the fact that Paul mentioned several women in the NT that were helpful, it later taught that it is not permissible for women to teach men. (1 Tim 2:12) many others were misogynists of the highest order.

When studying Islamic works, I also found that in the formative years (about 635-700 AD) of Islam women had a lot of power. One Indian scholar said that women were somehow cast down in Islam in 1700-1800 AD. It has never been clear to me as to why.

To be sure, I am in no way challenging the GA as far as women's position in our church. Besides I already did what ever I had to do in order to survive. For me, I think a woman has to give up part of being a woman to be seen as equal to a man, and I'm done with that.

Somehow, Jesus Christ became shrouded in mystery very early on and I think it happened as a power ploy to rule over the people. Part of Jesus's purpose, I think, was to practically demonstrate that passage from this life to another and back again was practical. Please keep in mind that I write Science Fiction as a hobby, so my imagination is very active.

On my mission in Germany I knew an elder from Switzerland who used to regale us at District Meetings with the European legends of how Jesus, as a child, would make clay figurines and bring them to life, or would strike neighborhood bullies dead and then have to bring them back to life when His mom found out. Included were the stories of how Mary Magdalene fled, after the the crucifixion, with one daughter and settled in France.

I can imagine that there would have been some cause for Mary and any offspring to fear for their lives from the same men who had just had the Savior murdered. The Jewish hierarchy could very well have had reason to fear a rallying around the feared man's family, and been motivated to eliminate them one way or another.

Fun stuff to hear, fun to speculate on, and discussions of such are, curiously, infinitely more edifying than ragging on the Maxwell Institute.

[EllenMaksoud]

Um who is the Maxwell Institute?

In digging around in early history (0-600 AD) I read about some really fun things. We have to keep in mind that in spite of the fact that Paul mentioned several women in the NT that were helpful, it later taught that it is not permissible for women to teach men. (1 Tim 2:12) many others were misogynists of the highest order.

When studying Islamic works, I also found that in the formative years (about 635-700 AD) of Islam women had a lot of power. One Indian scholar said that women were somehow cast down in Islam in 1700-1800 AD. It has never been clear to me as to why.

To be sure, I am in no way challenging the GA as far as women's position in our church. Besides I already did what ever I had to do in order to survive. For me, I think a woman has to give up part of being a woman to be seen as equal to a man, and I'm done with that.

Somehow, Jesus Christ became shrouded in mystery very early on and I think it happened as a power ploy to rule over the people. Part of Jesus's purpose, I think, was to practically demonstrate that passage from this life to another and back again was practical. Please keep in mind that I write Science Fiction as a hobby, so my imagination is very active.

[tyler90az]

I'll have to do more research to try to deterimine how long Jesus Christ ministered in the Americas.

Does anybody know that one? I am trying to figure out when the holy days end.

[CASteinman]

Does anybody know that one? I am trying to figure out when the holy days end.

You have a challenge. Not only is it unclear how long it lasted -- it is also not clear when it started in the New World. There are speculations that His appearance could have been days, weeks or months after the devastation recorded. I never really studied up on this, but I have heard about it and in hearing the arguments, realized that we actually do not know.

[EllenMaksoud]

Are you sure that the belief in Jesus Christ being married is a part of Mormon theology? I do not wish to get laughed at if I mention it.

[CASteinman]

Are you sure that the belief in Jesus Christ being married is a part of Mormon theology? I do not wish to get laughed at if I mention it.

There is no requirement to believe it. There is no requirement to disbelieve it. I do not believe it is part of any official statements on the part of the Church. It has been speculated about on the part of some or many people -- in the LDS Church and out of the LDS Church.

I happen to think it is likely. But I do not consider there to be a huge amount of evidence supporting the idea.

It is not very relevant to our salvation.

[aspire]

I don’t think there is any substantial proof that Mary Magdalene and Jesus were husband and wife but there is a lot of speculation in fiction (The Expected One) and non-fiction (LDS member authored, Dynasty of the Holy Grail). Just google it. But there are some of us out here who do believe there was a deeper connection between them than what the scriptures say. He did appear to her as the first witness of His resurrection. And if the gosple claims to be what it is than Jesus would have to be married.

[EllenMaksoud]

Just looking at human nature, I think he was married and had at least one child.

[CASteinman]

Just looking at human nature, I think he was married and had at least one child.

I do not think He had any children. But I think He was probably married, though perhaps not for a very long time.

[aspire]

Me too. Although if the myths play out there were most likely two, a boy and a girl. I know there those who will growl at this but call the romantic in me. For Jesus to chose to reveal himself to Mary Magdalene first he must have loved her very much.

[savedbygrace]

For reasons that are not clear to me, I feel a passion about Jesus Christ and Mary Madeline. I've never been involved, or studied a belief system that practices a living Jesus Christ after the crucifixion except The Church Of Jesus of Later Day Saints. I'll have to do more research to try to deterimine how long Jesus Christ ministered in the Americas.

There is very little documentation, but even so, I want to know more about what happened after. There is a fairly strong theory that Mary lived out her live in Scotland, and was buried on the Isle of Ione. I would not be hard convince that Jesus Christ had offspring by Mary. After all, lots of what we know about early church history was written by what became the old apostate Catholic Church.

Who knows, maybe I will have to wait until I move on.

Regarding your reference to the apostate catholic church maybe you should google Curtis R Porritt and read his paper on the Apostate LDS Church. BTW he is a practising Mormon not an anti, but has serious concerns about the state of the present day LDS church in the light of past wrintings of church leaders and LDS scriptures, this paper was written in 1999, who knows how much worse he would view the situation now.

Edited March 31, 2013 by savedbygrace

[Stargazer]

Nothing is written so nothing is known. It seems odd that she would travel so such a distant and hostile land. Scotland wasn't exactly civilized at that time and it would have been very very cold and no hebrew markets. If Jesus was married, it could have just as easily been to someone names Burtha; I am not convinced that Mary was his wife.

Well, there's no evidence she moved there, but southern England was a Roman province by 43 AD, so there was no political impediment for anyone at all to be able to travel to there. And though Scotland was not part of the Roman Empire (indeed much later Hadrian built a wall to keep the Scots out), there was nevetheless trade between Roman Britain and Scotland. It might have been a little problematic for someone to cross the border into Scotland, but not at all impossible.

Gotta watch out for those old traditions, though. We have a family tradition that the French part of my ancestry came over as part of Lafayette's entourage during the Revolution, and stayed here. I later discovered that our French ancestors were actually settlers in Quebec starting in the 1600's, and the Lafayette story was just some romanticization based on nothing but wishful thinking.

[Stargazer]

And did those feet in ancient time.

Walk upon Englands mountains green:

And was the holy Lamb of God,

On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,

Shine forth upon our clouded hills?

And was Jerusalem builded here,

Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;

Bring me my Arrows of desire:

Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!

Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,

Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:

Till we have built Jerusalem,

In Englands green & pleasant Land

by the poet/mystic/Druid William Blake.

And this is the cue for a little Emerson, Lake and Palmer!

Edited March 31, 2013 by Stargazer

[Robert F. Smith]

Please keep in mind that I write Science Fiction as a hobby, so my imagination is very active.

That reminds me, Ellen, that on Saturday I heard a rebroadcast on public radio of a 2006 interview of Harvard biologist E. O. Wilson (the interviewer Steve Paulson published that and other interviews in his Atoms to Eden: Conversations on Religion & Science [Oxford Univ. Press, 2010]). I heard Wilson opine that perhaps an entity (not the Judeo-Christian God) had created Earthlife and then wandered on out to the edge of the universe and watched things unfold. See Wilson's book, The Creation (2006/2007).

[Bikeemikey]

And did those feet in ancient time.

Walk upon Englands mountains green:

And was the holy Lamb of God,

On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,

Shine forth upon our clouded hills?

And was Jerusalem builded here,

Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;

Bring me my Arrows of desire:

Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!

Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,

Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:

Till we have built Jerusalem,

In Englands green & pleasant Land

by the poet/mystic/Druid William Blake.

I personally think Blake was inspired!! One of my favorite poets!!

[Bikeemikey]

Best evidence indicates she lived and died in Ephesus.

I think you may be referring Mary, mother of Jesus. I am not familiar with a strong tradition that Mary m also moved there... Visited yes, relocated no.

My wife and I toured the home and supposed burial site.

Also the location of one of Paul's famous sermons.

Very cool.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Bikeemikey