American Exceptionalism

[CASteinman]

Actually, sorry to disappoint you but Great Britain is.

Even though I do not know of a scripture that specifically says so, it is my opinion that Great Britain is exceptional.

See my avatar? I'm sure you know his Hymn - Jerusalem. I don't give him quite the standing of Joseph Smith but I consider him an enlightened man. Enlightened by the Spirit of God.

I wish we had a song about America like that. it brings tears to my eyes.

[Stone holm]

off and on through the years we have had a missionary here and there who rams the US down our Canadian throats, I just roll my eyes when they say what they have to say. I remember one guy from Arizona here for his mission was ripping on Canada and I remember thinking aren't you supposed to love those you serve? you big dumb dodo! ha! I think people like that are insecure, but ethnocentricty isn't only an American problem. I love the US, I served my mission there, 97% of the Americans I know are great people but don't expect me to watch American idol or anything

Sometimes my wife and I wish you Canadians would just invade us and put us out of our misery, but then we wake up again to our normal arrogant patriotic selves, but could we please borrow your healthcare system until we are old enough for Medicare? It's only a handful of years away and we promise to give it right back.

[Duncan]

You shop at Walmart, eh?

no, well, until Tar-Jay was exclusively an American place I went there to get some American style Chocolate and Coke and whatever the elders wanted and I just eat, eat, eat! haha! We have had Mal-Wart up here for years now. Target is coming soon. I went to the US last year for me holidays, Minnesota and Wisconsin.Itotally loved it! it's funny though when I was there i got rebuffed a few times but I never thought 'that D*** Yankee' instead I was more Christlike and went with 'ooh, that member of the generation of Vipers!"

[thesometimesaint]

Being exceptional is to follow that exceptional person. That one exceptional person has blessed the United states exceptionally over the several decades of her existence. There's a reason for that.

Yes, dissing American exceptionalism will lead people to dis Mormonism whose beliefs are exceptional.

I follow that exceptional person, but I haven't seen anything in the last 224 years that leads me to believe that the US is exceptionally good. fair, or free. The US is exceptional in only two things. The number of people incarcerated(highest in the world), and military spending(also the highest in the world).

[wenglund]

I follow that exceptional person, but I haven't seen anything in the last 224 years that leads me to believe that the US is exceptionally good. fair, or free. The US is exceptional in only two things. The number of people incarcerated(highest in the world), and military spending(also the highest in the world).

This reminds me that some U.S. citizens are exceptional in their self-loathing and white guilt....well, at least they used to be exceptional. Nowadays they seem to be more the rule.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Duncan]

Sometimes my wife and I wish you Canadians would just invade us and put us out of our misery, but then we wake up again to our normal arrogant patriotic selves, but could we please borrow your healthcare system until we are old enough for Medicare? It's only a handful of years away and we promise to give it right back.

Sure! come on up!

This is a Satirist like Colbert or that other guy...Stewart? Funny stuff!

[Calm]

In my experience (granted it's only be personally three countries and several more through reports of friends), each country is exceptional in its own way. And what a glorious thing that is to be so.

I think it would be very unfortunate....in fact absolutely horrible...if the world became full of nations that were identical to the US. I think it would be very unfortunate if the US became identical to Canada or any other country out there....though there are somethings I wish they would import into the US from Canada and the reverse and both could use some of the stuff we encountered in Russia when we were there.

Edited March 21, 2013 by calmoriah

[Darren10]

Sometimes my wife and I wish you Canadians would just invade us and put us out of our misery, but then we wake up again to our normal arrogant patriotic selves, but could we please borrow your healthcare system until we are old enough for Medicare? It's only a handful of years away and we promise to give it right back.

Wow, 33 ships!?!?!?

http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/cms/1/1_eng.asp

And healthcare:

Many people assume that Canadians enjoy universal healthcare coverage while receiving the same quality and quantity of medical goods and services as Americans. But the alleged superiority of single-payer health care is not consistent with the evidence. The reality is that, on average, Americans spend more of their income on healthcare than Canadians do but get faster access to more and better medical resources.

Healthcare appears to cost less in Canada than in the United States partly because Canadian government health insurance does not cover many advanced medical treatments and technologies that are commonly available to Americans. If Canadians had access to the same quality and quantity of healthcare resources that Americans enjoy, Canada’s government health insurance monopoly would cost much more than it currently does.

http://www.american.com/archive/2008/december-12-08/the-trouble-with-canadian-healthcare/

Let's just rock and roll with the Canadians. Rock and Roll machine brings us all together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzaBHkh66lM

[Duncan]

In my experience (granted it's only be personally three countries and several more through reports of friends), each country is exceptional in its own way. And what a glorious thing that is to be so.

I think it would be very unfortunate....in fact absolutely horrible...if the world became full of nations that were identical to the US. I think it would be very unfortunate if the US became identical to Canada or any other country out there....though there are somethings I wish they would import into the US from Canada and the reverse and both could use some of the stuff we encountered in Russia when we were there.

make a deal with you, give us your heat and we'll let you have Celine Dion but we want Rich Little and Alex Trebek back!!!! haha!

Edited March 21, 2013 by Duncan

[CASteinman]

I haven't seen anything in the last 224 years

You are a lot older than I thought.

[Duncan]

Wow, 33 ships!?!?!?

http://www.navy.forc...cms/1/1_eng.asp

And healthcare:

http://www.american....ian-healthcare/

Let's just rock and roll with the Canadians. Rock and Roll machine brings us all together.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzaBHkh66lM

There is a guy in my ward who just moved here a few months ago, an American born and educated Dr. he is my HT comp. he says that in Canada the Bureacracy is astounding whereas in the US the ethics are astounding (i.e paying for stuff, getting into debt deciding what to fix and not to fix) So, he doesn't know which is worse, waiting a long time for something (sometimes) or having to fork over money you don't have for something that needs fixing-depending on what Dr. you go to (sometimes)

[CASteinman]

it would be very unfortunate if the US became identical to Canada

This should be scripture.

[Calm]

From personal experience and what has been reported to me by others, Canadian health care is excellent for the typical illnesses (and possibly superior to the US) but for more unusual stuff....

My husband would have had to wait over a year to get in to see a sleep apnea specialist if he hadn't gone through the 'back door' by being in a study. It took me three months to get a CAT scan when I was having daily migraines. My daughter could not have received an insulin pump until at least 18.

When we moved back down to the States, my husband was able to get into a sleep study within a week and had a heart stress test the afternoon after the doctor saw him. We walked into the diabetes specialist without a pump the first time and walked out with a prescription for it. And I had a CAT scan the week after a doctor ordered it and a MRI the week after that after they discovered a hole in my head (literally...it's called Empty Sella Syndrome IIRC).

OTOH, if we still lived in Canada we wouldn't be worrying about how my daughter will be able to afford to pay for insulin once she reaches 26.

[Darren10]

I follow that exceptional person, but I haven't seen anything in the last 224 years that leads me to believe that the US is exceptionally good. fair, or free. The US is exceptional in only two things. The number of people incarcerated(highest in the world), and military spending(also the highest in the world).

Nohing which makes the US exceptional?

http://www.american-inventor.com/

http://gogov.com/iraqliberated.htm

And what nation rebuilt its former enemies like that of the US? While the US played a vital role in rebuilding West Germany, it had much greater success rebuilding Japan where the US went about it more or less solo.

Furthermore, the Bill of rights forbid government intrusion agaist our natural rights. And the concept of natural rights while not entirely originating from the US, the US bacame the unquestioned champion of it. To me it's no coincidence that those who threaten our natural rights are the very people in control of the US big cities where the vast majority of the nations' incarcerations ocurr.

[Darren10]

There is a guy in my ward who just moved here a few months ago, an American born and educated Dr. he is my HT comp. he says that in Canada the Bureacracy is astounding whereas in the US the ethics are astounding (i.e paying for stuff, getting into debt deciding what to fix and not to fix) So, he doesn't know which is worse, waiting a long time for something (sometimes) or having to fork over money you don't have for something that needs fixing-depending on what Dr. you go to (sometimes)

Yes, there's ups and downs but the US medical system is the world's best in quality, period. But no worries, Obamacare will assuredly change that. The Rocky mountain Healthcare systems has modeled how to provide the best care for less money and all privately funded.

http://www.rockymountaincoe.org/

Edited March 21, 2013 by Darren10

[Duncan]

Yes, there's ups and downs but the US medical system is the world's best in quality, period. But no worries, Obamacare will assuredly change that. The Rocky mountain Healthcare systems has modeled how to provide the best care for less money and all privately funded.

http://www.rockymountaincoe.org/

do you work for any of these things? you sound like a salesman! I can't speak to the qulaity of the American healthcare but I have never had any problems with the Canadian one. I have a personal doctor and things are fine and dandy

[mapman]

Here's a scripture I think is relevant:

For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written. For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.

(2 Ne. 29:11-12)

The Book of Mormon talks about some of the plans God has for those in the Promised Land of the Nephites. I think that God has spoken to other nations and told them ways that they are exceptional and fit into his plans as well.

[Spammer]

I recently had the opportunity to live with my family in Germany for two years. Near the end, we spent a lot of time driving around England. We moved back in Sept. I'd move us back to Germany or move to England in a heartbeat. My family is in agreement. Sorry, but my time overseas has convinced me that America isn't currently as exceptional as those countries (Holland and Belgium, too).

Edit to add: Regarding health care, I miss walking my boys across the street from our home in Germany to visit the doctor's office, which occupied the first floor of his home, and pay 30 euro for a check up and physical. That's it. No insurance necessary, even though I was paying Blue Cross for it.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Spammer

[Stone holm]

Yes, there's ups and downs but the US medical system is the world's best in quality, period. But no worries, Obamacare will assuredly change that. The Rocky mountain Healthcare systems has modeled how to provide the best care for less money and all privately funded.

http://www.rockymountaincoe.org/

The US healthcare system is not considered to be anywhere near the top except in one category, it is quite true that it is considered the most expensive on the planet. America uses a different method of rationing healthcare than most countries its called money. But sorry I seem to have derailed my own topic. I was fascinated by the comment about the ten tribes, will they bring their own Prophets with them so there will be multiple churches?

[CASteinman]

I was fascinated by the comment about the ten tribes, will they bring their own Prophets with them so there will be multiple churches?

According to the scriptures they will bring their own Prophets and more, but they will not be separate Churches as I read it. Which also makes sense from the perspective of God.

[Robert F. Smith]

There is no other religion which is more entangled with the notion of American Exceptionalism than Mormonism. The question we have to face is that a good thing. Some would say that the tendency of Americans to think of Utah and Mormondom is no longer a good thing. So is the tendency of the world when they think of Mormonism to think of it as an American religion with all of the baggage of American Exceptionalism that entails a good thing?

Yeh, America is exceptional all right, exceptionally violent!! Mobbing Mormons was entirely normal for Americans, and when Americans weren't killing the Mormon prophet, they were busy slaughtering Indians, or slaughtering each other in the Civil War. Was it H. Rap Brown who correctly said that "violence is as American as apple pie"?

Mormons have become accommodationists ever since the end of polygamy, and Mormons are even more "American" ("Republican") than any other Americans! Yet, it makes no difference. Mormons are still lied about, mocked, and laughed at in derision.

Now that most Mormons do not live in the USA, and most Mormons do not speak English as their first language, perhaps the American exceptionalism albatross will go by the boards. Maybe not.

[thesometimesaint]

This reminds me that some U.S. citizens are exceptional in their self-loathing and white guilt....well, at least they used to be exceptional. Nowadays they seem to be more the rule.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I don't have a bit of self-loathing or so called white guilt. But it is clear from even very recent history there are those that should.

[Darren10]

do you work for any of these things? you sound like a salesman! I can't speak to the qulaity of the American healthcare but I have never had any problems with the Canadian one. I have a personal doctor and things are fine and dandy

No, I do not work for any of these these things. I'm glad you've had good medical experiences and frankly I do not know why you should not assuming you're only concerns are your general health. But if there's a life threatening illness which may unfortunately affect you or a loved one I would not be surprised if the Canadian system comes up short.

[Stone holm]

Yeh, America is exceptional all right, exceptionally violent!! Mobbing Mormons was entirely normal for Americans, and when Americans weren't killing the Mormon prophet, they were busy slaughtering Indians, or slaughtering each other in the Civil War. Was it H. Rap Brown who correctly said that "violence is as American as apple pie"?

Mormons have become accommodationists ever since the end of polygamy, and Mormons are even more "American" ("Republican") than any other Americans! Yet, it makes no difference. Mormons are still lied about, mocked, and laughed at in derision.

Now that most Mormons do not live in the USA, and most Mormons do not speak English as their first language, perhaps the American exceptionalism albatross will go by the boards. Maybe not.

Well I kind of think you just expressed what my concern is. I am not sure that has always been the non-American view , but While Cheney was in control he certainly tarnished our image. There is also a tendency to look at Utahn politics and go yuck. But I agree with Steinman that it is pretty darn hard to miss the American Exceptionalism built into Mormonism. And I can't think of any other country which has such a strong sense of Divine destiny as us, and we seem to have had it from the get go.

[thesometimesaint]

Life saving procedures are as available in Canada as in the US, and cheaper. Voluntary surgeries are as available as in the US, though there is a slightly longer waiting period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_health_care_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States

Edited March 22, 2013 by thesometimesaint