A Parable Of Grace And Works

[Nathair/|\]

caveat: This is only supposed to cover a small part of the issue. Of course there is much more too it, but I think it's true as far as it goes. (Here's an excellent paper on another aspect of the issue.)

An ancient and evil wyrm has been burning villages and farms, eating peasants and livestock and generally making a nuisance of himself. A great knight slays the dragon, but is mortally wounded in return. Before he dies, the knight tells his squires to visit the villages and proclaim that the people are now safe from the dragon. If they are willing to travel to the dragon's demesne, they are welcome to all the treasure they can carry away. (The wyrm has been collecting treasure for centuries and there's more than everybody in the barony could spend in several lifetimes.)

In no way did anyone still alive at that point earn or deserve any of the treasure, but I don't see how making the effort to go to the cave and carry some back is not a work.

[pogi]

caveat: This is only supposed to cover a small part of the issue. Of course there is much more too it, but I think it's true as far as it goes. (Here's an excellent paper on another aspect of the issue.)

An ancient and evil wyrm has been burning villages and farms, eating peasants and livestock and generally making a nuisance of himself. A great knight slays the dragon, but is mortally wounded in return. Before he dies, the knight tells his squires to visit the villages and proclaim that the people are now safe from the dragon. If they are willing to travel to the dragon's demesne, they are welcome to all the treasure they can carry away. (The wyrm has been collecting treasure for centuries and there's more than everybody in the barony could spend in several lifetimes.)

In no way did anyone still alive at that point earn or deserve any of the treasure, but I don't see how making the effort to go to the cave and carry some back is not a work.

I like the article! I like the parable too, but I see it differently. In the parable, the treasure (grace) can only be obtained through work, thereby earning it in some way.

Grace is freely given in our hearts, all we need to do is allow ourselves to freely receive it, and then to freely pass it on. To me, grace precedes and empowers all good works, including the works of repentance and sacrifice. It is delivered directly to us, there is no need to leave our homes, climb a mountain, or hall back any heavy load. Our works are the fruit of grace, not the other way around. The moment we believe it and accept it, it is ours to obtain. Once we obtain it, we are empowered to fulfill all righteous works.

However, grace is not some stationary object that we possess. I see it as something fluid that flows through us like a river that feeds all life. If we try to dam the flow, or possess it in any way, the river will simply go around us. By allowing it to pass through us, we both feed ourselves and those downstream.

Edited January 29, 2013 by pogi

[Tacenda]

I like the article! I like the parable too, but I see it differently. In the parable, the treasure (grace) can only be obtained through work, thereby earning it in some way.

Grace is freely given in our hearts, all we need to do is allow ourselves to freely receive it, and then to freely pass it on. To me, grace precedes and empowers all good works, including the works of repentance and sacrifice. It is delivered directly to us, there is no need to leave our homes, climb a mountain, or hall back any heavy load. Our works are the fruit of grace, not the other way around. The moment we believe it and accept it, it is ours to obtain. Once we obtain it, we are empowered to fulfill all righteous works.

However, grace is not some stationary object that we possess. I see it as something fluid that flows through us like a river that feeds all life. If we try to dam the flow, or possess it in any way, the river will simply go around us. By allowing it to pass through us, we both feed ourselves and those downstream.

Beautiful, I believe this.

[changed]

... Our works are the fruit of grace, not the other way around....

I can see your point, although I think we first need the capacity to receive, and that receiving grace is work in and of it's own right.

[Hamba Tuhan]

This topic often wanders off into a false dichotomy bogged down in long-forgotten specifics of the Protestant Reformation, having nothing to do with those who embrace the Restoration. The scriptures make it clear -- and none more clearly than the Book of Mormon -- that we are saved by faith. Faith in Christ is (a) trust in Him and (b) loyalty to Him. Trusting the Lord and fiercely sticking by Him allow Him to save us through His grace. Naturally, those who are faithful in this sense seek to do what He asks of them regardless of how bad they may be at it. Faith without works is dead, quite simply, because faith without works dies. As we place our utmost trust in the Lord, we discover that our faith has not been misplaced, that He is indeed real and most definitely a keeper of His promises. Those who never really trust Him enough to try to follow Him will never know Him enough for their faith to grow.

[pogi]

I can see your point, although I think we first need the capacity to receive, and that receiving grace is work in and of it's own right.

That is the trick isn't it? We all have the capacity to receive grace, but not all of us make the choice to receive it for many different reasons. All of those reasons are based in fear, doubt, and pride. Grace is transformative, and change can be terrifying!

[Nathair/|\]

I realize it's a less important matter, but my parable is specifically about things like the requirement to be baptized and keep baptismal covenants to live in the Celestial kingdom and about the requirement to be eternally married and keep those covenants in order to be exalted and how that doesn't constitute earning eternal life and exaltation.

[pogi]

The scriptures make it clear -- and none more clearly than the Book of Mormon -- that we are saved by faith.

Our faith does not save us, this is not scriptural. The scriptures are clear that we are saved by grace.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and this not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works..." (Eph 2:8-10).

Even our faith is a gift (grace) of God as indicated by this scripture. Also, In 1Corinthians 12:9 and in the Book of Moroni, faith is listed as a gift of the spirit (grace).

The Book of Mormon also makes it clear that we are saved by grace after all that we can do. All that we can do is choose good, and the grace of God empowers us to do good. Our good works are empowered and sustained by grace, through faith, which is a gift of grace for those who choose it.

Faith without works is dead, quite simply, because faith without works dies.

Faith without works is dead, because faith does not exist independent of grace, and works are the fruit of grace. Whereby we can know that faith without works is independent of grace, and is therefore not of God, and is dead.

Edited January 30, 2013 by pogi

[Tacenda]

Our faith does not save us, this is not scriptural. The scriptures are clear that we are saved by grace.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and this not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works..." (Eph 2:8-10).

Even our faith is a gift (grace) of God as indicated by this scripture. Also, In 1Corinthians 12:9 and in the Book of Moroni, faith is listed as a gift of the spirit (grace).

The Book of Mormon also makes it clear that we are saved by grace after all that we can do. All that we can do is choose good, and the grace of God empowers us to do good. Our good works are empowered and sustained by grace, through faith, which is a gift of grace for those who choose it.

Faith without works is dead, because faith does not exist independent of grace, and works are the fruit of grace. Whereby we can know that faith without works is independent of grace, and is therefore not of God, and is dead.

I like this too!

[Hamba Tuhan]

Our faith does not save us, this is not scriptural. The scriptures are clear that we are saved by grace.

I don't think we're in disagreement. At the same time, the scriptures don't always use the formulaic phrasing of Ephesians:

Luke 7:50 -- 'And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace'.

Moroni 7:26 -- 'And after that he came men also were saved by faith in his name; and by faith, they become the sons of God'.

D&C 3:20 -- 'And that the Lamanites might come to the knowledge of their fathers, and that they might know the promises of the Lord, and that they may believe the gospel and rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ, and be glorified through faith in his name, and that through their repentance they might be saved'.

Helaman 13:6 -- 'Nothing can save this people save it be repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ'.

[pogi]

I don't think we're in disagreement. At the same time, the scriptures don't always use the formulaic phrasing of Ephesians:

Luke 7:50 -- 'And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace'.

Moroni 7:26 -- 'And after that he came men also were saved by faith in his name; and by faith, they become the sons of God'.

D&C 3:20 -- 'And that the Lamanites might come to the knowledge of their fathers, and that they might know the promises of the Lord, and that they may believe the gospel and rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ, and be glorified through faith in his name, and that through their repentance they might be saved'.

Helaman 13:6 -- 'Nothing can save this people save it be repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ'.

I don't think we are in disagreement either. When one understands that faith itself is a gift of grace, these scriptures are better understood.

I think it would be accurate to say that we are saved by grace, which is by works, which are by faith, which is by grace, which is by choice to ask and receive, which is by agency, which is by grace. One always finds himself at the feet of grace. It is the beginning, middle, and end of salvation, it is Alpha and Omega.

Edited January 30, 2013 by pogi

[Maidservant]

"I heard Petra's voice nearby. 'Do you see this planet, Theodora?' This is the earth we stand on. This is how big it is. We are bound to it by its forces.' Now as the image of our beautiful earth continued to balloon to fill a two-dimensional screen, I could see Petra dimly in the stained-glass glow of the third planet.

" 'We will go down,' she said.

"After passing through atmosphere and cloud systems, we grinned at each other in the blue sky. Gently our feet came to rest on the green grass of a primitive meadow. I bent and brushed my palm over the strong, flexible blades, smelling the life in them. My heart sang with the wilderness that surrounded us. We were in a valley, closed in by majestic ridge hills in their deep greens. The cattails graced a marsh lake, and we watched a flock of water fowl take flight in a caucaphanous orchestra of sound. The thick forest mantled the high hills, the pine tree borders embracing the meadow.

" 'Follow me,' Petra said. She walked to a little copse, the sun and dark dappling the ground through the canopy of aspens and oak. She knelt and in the grass I saw several bright red jewels growing from a low vine. The jewels were fruit. Petra picked two and handed one to me. I relished the juicy sweet and sour. (Joro would love to learn from these people!)

" 'Strawberries,' Petra called them.

"In simple peace, we stood looking out to the marsh and a sentinel mountain-hill.

" 'We didn't have to pay anything for them.'

"I looked sharply at her. I had started to forget that this was all supposed to be an answer to my question.

" 'They were a free gift to us,' she continued.

" 'There aren't any strawberries growing in Evil City,' I said.

" 'No. For them to find strawberries, they would have to make a journey.'

"I was trying hard to think. 'Is this place the past, present, or the future?'

" 'This program is made to represent the earth in its youth--the past. But it doesn't matter. You and I made a journey from that spot over there. I knew where to look. I know where and how strawberries grow. And you were with me. You just had to--trust me. For your friends in Evil City, it would be a much longer journey. They have no knowledge, no guide and no place nearby where strawberries grow. So, you are right, they suffer. The earth brings forth everything a man needs for survival and enjoyment. A man cannot pay for the gifts of the earth, and when he tries, he pollutes the gift. In fact, so far can the corruption multiply that the fountains of the earth's manifestations can dry up, demise. Such is the existence of your city. A gift cannot be paid for and remain a gift.

" 'But, Theodora, gifts must always be sought. Gifts reveal themselves to seekers.'

" 'But my friends as you call them, they don't know--well, how will they ever know? Are you people going to ever tell them any of this?' I thought about the pretty, fat-faced boy who had waved to me over the side of his mother's boat. His innocence would be gone shortly. He would grow into one of Kaano's dogs. And that was if he was lucky.

" 'Theodora, I don't understand it all myself. But, for every human who is--lost--and would receive gifts properly if they could only be given a chance, there are the humans who have been provided with so much from birth on, that still cannot receive the gifts because they refuse to do so properly--with seeking. They refuse gifts that sit plainly before them. But if you will think of yourself, Theodora. Every gift you have discovered on your journey to and in our city--you know how to hold it precious, you have the capacity to do so, precisely because of your previous suffering and lack. Does this seem true to you?'

"I thought. I had lived in one world. It had been a good world compared to that of many of the humans that were in Evil City with me. I had adults who cared for me. I had health and shelter and food. I even had learning. I could read and philosophize.

"But my world had been a capsule that was boundaried by my parent's workplace, the Thai restaurant, the harobr, the Old Landfill, and Father Marx's house. My world had been one where happiness was the little attentions I had been given as a child; and now that I was older, staying alive and unpregnant--meaning that the other person was dead.

"There was nothing wrong with my world.

"It just didn't seem to be the real one anymore.

"Petra spoke again. 'Gifts are not given to any humans in advantage over another. All seekers are accepted. It is just that some have farther to go than others. The longer the journey, the greater the seeker simply by virtue of the longer journey he or she has persisted in. The greater the seeker, the more deeply hidden gifts are made manifest.' "

Edited January 30, 2013 by Maidservant