I Thought This Forum Was Mormon Only?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Please don't delay on "going full throttle on belief".

I could name the EV churches I was involved in, it would fill no purpose. My first training was essentially Baptist, and while I learned a great deal, the primary motivation tool was guilt about tithing and sin. Some actually believed that hardship came into our lives as a result of sin. Therefore if you were suffering then you had sinned. That was an extremely hurtful practice. Even at that time in 1974, the LDS were preached against.

Then we went to a huge community church in SE Portland. That was all about feel good theology, prosperity, and tithing. We moved out to the far West side of town, and started attending church because of a job change. There we visited or attended several different churches for a variety of reasons and invitations of our friends. For me the Assembly of God was really strange, with the speaking in tongues, the slaying in the spirit, and the shouted sermons. (For me, I would rather face a live, fire breathing dragon than a shouting, angry man.) We visited but did not stay. Then, there was Benny Hinn. I actually attended one of his conventions in a large convention center and was urged to answer the call to the altar. (I was still suffering the effects of horrendous abuse by my step father and my self image was in the basement.)

One of his trademarks was to Slay people in the spirit and gain them miraculous healing. So, when he came to me, rather than my feeling anything spiritual, he just pushed me, expecting me to play along and fall over. There is a funny video on youtube called, Benny Hinn, Let The Bodies Hit The Floor. It is all about thrill seeking and showmanship.

Lastly, we attended an International Foursquare Gospel church. Through that church we went on a temporary Mission to Kenya, and debriefed in Israel. Through another church we went to Honduras for a total of 4 weeks to help rebuild after Hurricane Mitch. I say this to illustrate that for us we really tried to have a life pleasing to Heavenly Father. I won't say that all EV churches are like what I described, since I have only my experience.

Yes...every faith has some value.

[Damien the Leper]

If you are trying to become LDS then hearing other perspectives may be a good thing and perhaps stop you from making a decision you may come to regret

I have a much better shot at getting into hell as an Episcopalian who is theologically moderate (maybe liberal) than these silly Mormons.

And when St. Lucifer's gates open in grand welcoming to me...I'll proudly sing "Amazing Grace".

Edited January 28, 2013 by Valentinus

[EllenMaksoud]

I have a much better shot at getting into hell as an Episcopalian who is theologically moderate (maybe liberal) than these silly Mormons.

And when St. Lucifer's gates open in grand welcoming to me...I'll proudly sing "Amazing Grace".

I do not regard Episcopalian and Lutheran as EV. I have attened Lutheran services and did not hear any hate speech. Interestingly, the Mandeans are not hate mongers either.

Edited January 29, 2013 by EllenMaksoud

[Damien the Leper]

I never considered the Mandeans to be hate mongers either. They are an interesting group of Gnostics. I wish we had some of them and Manicheans here in the US. Unless they are waiting for me to be enlightened to their presence...

[volgadon]

I never considered the Mandeans to be hate mongers either. They are an interesting group of Gnostics. I wish we had some of them and Manicheans here in the US. Unless they are waiting for me to be enlightened to their presence...

There are some Mandaeans in the USA, IIRC. At any rate, they are my favourite gnostic group, and I highly recommend anything by Jorun Jacobsen Buckley.

[Damien the Leper]

What about Stephen Hoeller? Or is he a little overrated?

[volgadon]

What about Stephen Hoeller? Or is he a little overrated?

Haven't read much of his yet, so dunno.

[GingerRed]

My Baptisim was joyous and shocking! I was extremely cynical about the effects of an LDS baptisim. My gosh, I'd been baptised 4 times before, once in the Jordan river in Israel! Was that not enough? Did they want to drown me? And, astonishingly every time I had an objection, a solution was worked out in a gentle way that um astonished me. Now days I spend a lot of my time being astonished!

So, after the baptisim, things started happening! I was able to give forgiveness to the perpetrators in my life, something that had been elusive my entire adult life.

The LDS refuse to see me in the way I saw myself.

Oh my gosh Ellen! You just made me cry with the statement I bolded! That is so profound ! And true! I. too, suffer sometimes still from a poor self esteem.....when I converted to the church, you made me suddenly realize that from that day on...I was treated like a daughter of a loving Heavenly Father! Treated with respect, kindness, and people who are there for you! And all I have learned since then is what a special, wonderful, strong, worthy woman I am and CAN be! But we lose sight of that so easily when life tears us down, and trials come...and we start thinking we are losers or not worthy of anything good , not deserving a miracle....cause that's what the outside world tries to put upon us! But time and time again..bishops, RS presidents, your ward members, your VT's and HT's , your neighbors, your friends and family....and even the General Authorities ..wont let you forget that YOU are a Child of God!! That you can pray, repent, ask forgiveness, serve others, let others serve YOU....you are a CHILD of God! Always and forever! No one can take that away! Even if you yourself, dont feel that way. The church will never ever give up on you...you may give up on them...but they wont ever say to you...."okay ....you're right, you suck! Just go on believing that then! I'm done trying to convince you otherwise!" Jesus never said that. Jesus never gave up. His Atonement is there. Always.

So I thank you for saying that...it meant a lot to me...thank you

Red

[EllenMaksoud]

Oh my gosh Ellen! You just made me cry with the statement I bolded! That is so profound ! And true! I. too, suffer sometimes still from a poor self esteem.....when I converted to the church, you made me suddenly realize that from that day on...I was treated like a daughter of a loving Heavenly Father! Treated with respect, kindness, and people who are there for you! And all I have learned since then is what a special, wonderful, strong, worthy woman I am and CAN be! But we lose sight of that so easily when life tears us down, and trials come...and we start thinking we are losers or not worthy of anything good , not deserving a miracle....cause that's what the outside world tries to put upon us! But time and time again..bishops, RS presidents, your ward members, your VT's and HT's , your neighbors, your friends and family....and even the General Authorities ..wont let you forget that YOU are a Child of God!! That you can pray, repent, ask forgiveness, serve others, let others serve YOU....you are a CHILD of God! Always and forever! No one can take that away! Even if you yourself, dont feel that way. The church will never ever give up on you...you may give up on them...but they wont ever say to you...."okay ....you're right, you suck! Just go on believing that then! I'm done trying to convince you otherwise!" Jesus never said that. Jesus never gave up. His Atonement is there. Always.

So I thank you for saying that...it meant a lot to me...thank you

Red

You are quite welcome. Mashallah (Middle Eastern people use this Arabic word. It means, "All good comes from God".) They use it to honor God when they are going to complement someone, or they are complemented. It is their belief that if they do not give God the credit, then they will grow more distant from him.

Much peace

Ellen

[EllenMaksoud]

There are some Mandaeans in the USA, IIRC. At any rate, they are my favourite gnostic group, and I highly recommend anything by Jorun Jacobsen Buckley.

I worked with a Mandean woman about 4 years ago. She was like totally awesome. She was attending Portland State University and working at Catholic Charities.

[GingerRed]

You are quite welcome. Mashallah (Middle Eastern people use this Arabic word. It means, "All good comes from God".) They use it to honor God when they are going to complement someone, or they are complemented. It is their belief that if they do not give God the credit, then they will grow more distant from him.

Much peace

Ellen

Awww thats cool! Mashallah! I like that!

Red

[EllenMaksoud]

Awww thats cool! Mashallah! I like that!

Red

They did say that I could bring the good things from my old culture to the LDS faith.

[sweetpotatoh]

EllenMaksoud, thank you for sharing. You have brought me joy today. Mashalla!

[EllenMaksoud]

EllenMaksoud, thank you for sharing. You have brought me joy today. Mashalla!

Thank you. Though I was born in America to dust bowl parents, and served in the Military, and see myself as an American patriot, the Middle Eastern culture has left an indelible mark on my life that I love deeply. This winter when I go for a walk outside, and am all bundled up, I still wind my scarf about my head Muslim style. It's a habit. Some people think of me as Muslim, but I am just a Mormon sister with a scarf to ward off the cold.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Thank you. Though I was born in America to dust bowl parents, and served in the Military, and see myself as an American patriot, the Middle Eastern culture has left an indelible mark on my life that I love deeply. This winter when I go for a walk outside, and am all bundled up, I still wind my scarf about my head Muslim style. It's a habit. Some people think of me as Muslim, but I am just a Mormon sister with a scarf to ward off the cold.

I grew up Baptist and no one would ever question why a woman had her head covered. I think what you speak of is a new way of seeing things...post 911. Edited January 31, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[EllenMaksoud]

I grew up Baptist and no one would ever question why a woman had her head covered. I think what you speak of is a new way of seeing things...post 911.

I was Muslim not long after 911. Asking why these people were so mad at America, my frustrations with Attack Christians not following Jesus in a way that I approved of, and my own internal guilt drove me to Islam. I knew that there had to be a better way of worshipping Heavenly Father, and I was so burdened with PTSD and guilt that I felt I needed a religion with lots of boundaries, and control. I felt I needed to be controlled. My life was a right mess, and my old church just condemned me with no effort to restore. Paul complained about that same issue, so it is not new.

The LDS church has been to me what church should have been in 2000.