Swords Into Plowshares

[Mark Beesley]

Isaiah prophesied of the last days and the Millenium,

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isaiah 2:4

I suspect that during the Lord's reign on earth there will be no need for people to have their own personal arsenals for home protection. Given the statistics that gun ownership results in more friendly fire than enemy fire, it is debatable whether people need them even now. In any case, even the rationale of owning a gun for self-protection cannot justify many of the types of guns on the market today, and it is likely that in the coming year or so we will a major push (hopefully successfully) towards making the ownership of those guns, magazines, and bullets unlawful.

Will faithful Latter-day Saints who are avid supporters of the Second Amendment and the owners of guns and accessories that become illegal to possess obey the law and give them up? Or will they find some higher moral law to justify violating the law? Do we really need to wait on the Lord before beginning the process of beating our swords into plowshares?

For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

D&C 58:26

[wolfcall]

the law of the land vs the rights to protect ones self and ones faith. always an internesting dilemma. living in a state where alot of military is residing both current and former its gonna be rough to take those guns. a former marine and a current marine could stand toe to toe with the current marine requesting the formers' weapon will just be a staring contest until they get bored and shoot at each other. the history of weapons and the belief in gods right to carry and use while attempting to bring a message of peace is a long one... its interesting to see whether peace will be the message or the right to defend god and country will take more of a forefront.

[DavidB]

Isaiah prophesied of the last days and the Millenium,

I suspect that during the Lord's reign on earth there will be no need for people to have their own personal arsenals for home protection. Given the statistics that gun ownership results in more friendly fire than enemy fire, it is debatable whether people need them even now. In any case, even the rationale of owning a gun for self-protection cannot justify many of the types of guns on the market today, and it is likely that in the coming year or so we will a major push (hopefully successfully) towards making the ownership of those guns, magazines, and bullets unlawful.

Will faithful Latter-day Saints who are avid supporters of the Second Amendment and the owners of guns and accessories that become illegal to possess obey the law and give them up? Or will they find some higher moral law to justify violating the law? Do we really need to wait on the Lord before beginning the process of beating our swords into plowshares?

Mark, are you willing to list out all your property then allow some random group of people to decide which of your current property you need? If you are not willing to do that, then you zero ground to demand that some one else do the same.

Edited January 12, 2013 by DavidB

[Sky]

I'm not a gun owner or a supporter of the gun lobby, so it won't be an issue for me. But I seem to be more in the minority among LDS in that regard.

Too many people have lost their lives in 2012 alone to these violent, senseless acts. My heart goes out to the families and the incredible sense of loss they must be feeling. I certainly hope that something will be done to bring about stricter gun control laws.

[DavidB]

How many people in the US died in car accidents? Should we limit the various types of vehicles? Better yet we should force all to take public transportation thus ensuring that only State Officials have vehicles. This will reduce the number of vehicles thus increasing the safety of society.

[omni]

How many people in the US died in car accidents? Should we limit the various types of vehicles? Better yet we should force all to take public transportation thus ensuring that only State Officials have vehicles. This will reduce the number of vehicles thus increasing the safety of society.

I'm not so sure we need stricter gun laws, but this often used analogy is very poor. If the government were to suddenly ban the use of cars it would affect almost very aspect of our daily lives and the world would immediately spin into a deep depression causing untold damage. The same couldn't be said for an assault rifle ban, or gun ban in general.

[Sky]

How many people in the US died in car accidents? Should we limit the various types of vehicles? Better yet we should force all to take public transportation thus ensuring that only State Officials have vehicles. This will reduce the number of vehicles thus increasing the safety of society.

In ten states, you are more likely to be killed by a gun than in a car accident (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Michigan, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Virginia, and Washington). See here.

[Kenngo1969]

I dispute the contention that lawful gun ownership "results in more friendly fire than enemy fire." While I do not own a gun, I would like to have the option, both for recreational purposes and to protect myself in my own home. That said, I would support laws restricting access to high-capacity magazines and (perhaps) clips, and rapid-fire weapons. However, I'm not sanguine that even these measures would persuade someone who is not law abiding enough on the one hand that he wishes to murder someone(s), yet we assume, on the other hand, that he'll simply turn law abiding if his weapons or ammunition of choice are banned. Such laws will do nothing to root out the evil impulses arising from the heart and mind that result in mass-death.

See here. http://www.greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2012/12/06/why-whitlock-is-wrong/

[Saints Alive]

Unless they amend the constitution to remove the second amendment I will not be giving up any of my guns until the Lord is firmly in charge.

[teddyaware]

A wise man once asked another man the following question:

"Throughout all of history, what's been the only real difference between slaves and their masters?"

The man who was asked the intriguing question pondered deeply for a moment and answered ... "Freedom?"

The wise man said:

"No, that's incorrect ... The only only real difference between slaves and their masters is that the masters have weapons and the slaves have none."

Edited January 12, 2013 by teddyaware

[Saints Alive]

I'd also like to add that there are lots of easily accessible things that can be used to commit mass murders. We cannot remove the tool, we can only change the user.

[Kenngo1969]

In ten states, you are more likely to be killed by a gun than in a car accident (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Michigan, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Virginia, and Washington). See here.

Accepting your source as reliable for the sake of discussion, is the likelihood significantly greater? If not, while I appreciate your concern for my physical welfare, I'll take my chances.

[DavidB]

I'm not so sure we need stricter gun laws, but this often used analogy is very poor. If the government were to suddenly ban the use of cars it would affect almost very aspect of our daily lives and the world would immediately spin into a deep depression causing untold damage. The same couldn't be said for an assault rifle ban, or gun ban in general.

Are you sure about that, how much money enters commerce via the firearms industry?

And marks rationale was about need and safety, public transportation increases safety. People do not need a vehicle of certain types and considering vehicle deaths out number firearm death then we need regulate and confiscate various types of vehicles.

[DavidB]

In ten states, you are more likely to be killed by a gun than in a car accident (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Michigan, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Virginia, and Washington). See here.

What are the numbers when you subtract suicides?

Also, reliance in that study is misplaced, as nationally more people die in motor vehicles.

[Mudcat]

Will faithful Latter-day Saints who are avid supporters of the Second Amendment and the owners of guns and accessories that become illegal to possess obey the law and give them up? Or will they find some higher moral law to justify violating the law? Do we really need to wait on the Lord before beginning the process of beating our swords into plowshares?

I am not LDS but I feel strongly about the 2nd amendment.

In all truth, If the 2nd ammendment were infringed, I would consider it an act of high treason and respond accordingly either standing alone or alongside whatever red blooded Americans that would stand on the principle that we would not see our republic handed over to tyranny.

Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

[DavidB]

A wise man once asked another:

"Throughout all of history, what's been the only real difference that matters existing between slaves and their masters?"

The man who was asked the intriguing question pondered deeply for a moment and answered... "Freedom?"

The wise man said "no, that's incorrect... The only only real difference that matters existing between slaves and their masters is that the masters have weapons and the slaves have none."

The last check against tyranny is an armed citizenry.

Edited January 12, 2013 by DavidB

[teddyaware]

The last check against tyranny is an armed citizenry.

Amen! As the Founding Fathers knew fisthand, all too well.

[Sky]

The last check against tyranny is an armed citizenry.

a.k.a. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun...

[thesometimesaint]

How many people in the US died in car accidents? Should we limit the various types of vehicles? Better yet we should force all to take public transportation thus ensuring that only State Officials have vehicles. This will reduce the number of vehicles thus increasing the safety of society.

About 30,000 per year in the US.

We do. There are stringent safety controls on vehicles. Everything from fender size to seat belts to catalytic converters.

I wish we had good public transportation out where I live. My sister takes the train to work every work day. It saves her a small fortune in running and maintaining a car. Plus because of LA traffic it is faster than by car.

The most dangerous part of air travel is the trip to the air port by car.

[thesometimesaint]

Amen! As the Founding Fathers knew fisthand, all too well.

Incorrect. The Founders of this country were afraid of standing armies. Thus they created militias that the government could call up at need.

[thesometimesaint]

a.k.a. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun...

How do you tell the good guy from the bad guy?

[ERayR]

I'm not a gun owner or a supporter of the gun lobby, so it won't be an issue for me. But I seem to be more in the minority among LDS in that regard.

Too many people have lost their lives in 2012 alone to these violent, senseless acts. My heart goes out to the families and the incredible sense of loss they must be feeling. I certainly hope that something will be done to bring about stricter gun control laws.

Tell me how stricter gun laws will solve the problem.

[teddyaware]

Incorrect. The Founders of this country were afraid of standing armies. Thus they created militias that the government could call up at need.

I agree with your statement above. So I don;t understand how you think we differ. Please clarify why you disagree with me. Think it's likely there's a misunderstanding.

[ERayR]

Isaiah prophesied of the last days and the Millenium,

I suspect that during the Lord's reign on earth there will be no need for people to have their own personal arsenals for home protection.

Until he does come can you guarantee that I will be safe and unmolested in my home without a firearm?

[ERayR]

I'm not so sure we need stricter gun laws, but this often used analogy is very poor. If the government were to suddenly ban the use of cars it would affect almost very aspect of our daily lives and the world would immediately spin into a deep depression causing untold damage. The same couldn't be said for an assault rifle ban, or gun ban in general.

So is it OK for the killing of innocent victims in auto accidents to continue for the greater good (commerce)? As long is there is enough money involved is it OK?