Maxine Hanks And Joseph Smith As Prophet

[Lamanite]

Difficult to answer hypotheticals. You will not know until you are tested. For the women who were sealed to Joseph as a plural wife, they were reluctant until a spiritual confirmation came. And they weren't involved in hypotheticals.

Some conformed at once, some after spiritual confirmations including visions, and some rejected him outright including his beloved Emma to varying degrees. Which ones were right? And I wonder if anyone here would walk into Emma's home in Nauvoo and tell her she was wrong for not being more obedient and that she is not spiritually in tune with the Spirit and that she needs to conform or be excommunicated. LOL. Not something I would be willing to do based on a number of different reasons including fear of being pushed down the stairs! (LOL. Please don't post anything regarding the use of the stair episode that hasn't been verified )

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Lamanite

[Calm]

And I wonder if anyone here would walk into Emma's home in Nauvoo and tell her she was wrong for not being more obedient and that she is not spiritually in tune with the Spirit and that she needs to conform or be excommunicated.

Didn't Hyrum kind of try this? Not the excommunicated part, but the persuasion... Edited August 4, 2012 by calmoriah

[Lamanite]

Didn't Hyrum kind of try this? Not the excommunicated part, but the persuasion...

Joseph sent him to talk to her on at least one occasion. IIRC, one of these episodes is when Emma is said to have burned the original polygamy revelation. Again IIRC, it was BY that reported the burning of the revelation and I think Emma refuted it.

LOL! That was the most ridiculous post I have written in a long time. It may not have one element of truth in the whole thing!!! haha

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Lamanite

[Tacenda]

Joseph sent him to talk to her on at least one occasion. IIRC, one of these episodes is when Emma is said to have burned the original polygamy revelation. Again IIRC, it was BY that reported the burning of the revelation and I think Emma refuted it.

LOL! That was the most ridiculous post I have written in a long time. It may not have one element of truth in the whole thing!!! haha

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Lamanite

Why wouldn't it?

[Lamanite]

Why wouldn't it?

Cuz I don't have one reference to support any of it and I'm too lazy to dig through real life books.(The kind with pages and sadly no "search" feature.)

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Lamanite

[USU78]

Joseph sent him to talk to her on at least one occasion. IIRC, one of these episodes is when Emma is said to have burned the original polygamy revelation. Again IIRC, it was BY that reported the burning of the revelation and I think Emma refuted it.

LOL! That was the most ridiculous post I have written in a long time. It may not have one element of truth in the whole thing!!! haha

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Lamanite

More accurately, Hyrum convinced Joseph that he [Hyrum] could easily persuade Emma of the doctrine, so Joseph reluctantly wrote out a copy for him. It is that copy that Emma burned . . . and Hyrum's ears apparently burned a fair bit as well. Joseph, it appears, knew Emma well . . .

[CV75]

Personally I found great blessing by following the teachings and guidance of a Prophet. However, I wonder how I would react if my Prophet told me that men of African decent could no longer hold the Priesthood. Would I question the divinity of this new direction? Would I question whether or not it was culturally or personally motivated? What if I didn't receive confirmation from the Holy Ghost that this was God's will?

What if I was at Mountain Meadows and decided not to "assume the best" about what was taking place? What if I instead of following along I decided to pray about the situation and whether my leaders were operating under the Divine guidance and direction of God?

Regarding your hypothetical mental experiments t flesh out the idea that “Those that assume the best about the counsel they receive will find hidden treasure as guided by the Holy Ghost,” here’s how I think/hope I would react, recognizing that not everyone reacts the same at every stage of development:

(1) … if my Prophet told me that men of African decent could no longer hold the Priesthood.

Would I question the divinity of this new direction? Yes.

Would I question whether or not it was culturally or personally motivated? Yes.

What if I didn't receive confirmation from the Holy Ghost that this was God's will? I would abide by the new direction in patience and faith, knowing that the most important things that I have received of the Lord cannot be taken away.

(2) …if I was at Mountain Meadows and decided not to "assume the best" about what was taking place? My response to such questions as, “What would you do if the Prophet told you to kill somebody?,” which regrettably have indeed come up, is, “Get lost” and they can take that any way they want to. MMM is too far out of my personal experience to relate to, so I will share the advice I would give someone asking my opinion about what they are proposing:

What if I instead of following along I decided to pray about the situation and whether my leaders were operating under the Divine guidance and direction of God? I think that is a reasonable course of action and that we shouldn’t follow along anyway without praying about counsel or commandment that we find difficult to accept.

And in both cases is there a mechanism for dissent embedded within the Church. We already have the answer....Think and believe what you want but keep it to yourself.

I think this is a reasonable observation, but I think the mechanism about sensitive or controversial questions and doubts is to reverently keep it to oneself, the Lord and as wisdom directs, trustworthy confidants.

Here’s a safe, banal example but I think it illustrates the point. I was once asked by a counselor in my priesthood chain of command to take on an assignment. I accepted, figuring I could make it work. When certain details came out about the assignment that conflicted with a far more important personal and priesthood commitment to the Lord, I told him about the conflict and my limitations and he blithely told what I could do to work around it, indicating that my other commitment was no big deal to get out of. Seeing his lack of understanding of my situation and not wanting to get into the weeds with an ignoramus, I went ahead and did what I thought was most important. No matter how it seemed that I would fail to carry out the lesser assignment because of my unwillingness to compromise, as long as I kept the more important commitment, things worked out and no one was the wiser. There are several points along the way I could have been offended and made a big deal about it, but I kept it between myself and the Lord and he had my back. The same principle applies equally to earrings and killing people—the more important commitment is (fill in the blank, depending on what it is that the Lord has given the individual to now apply himself to).

[volgadon]

Could you please provide me with a source discussing this statement, "tested against a real world ancient text, and failed". I'm personally invested in this subject and it would really help me. Thanks.

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Lamanite

I think he means the BoM. For the recod, I disagree. A more nuanced approach is needed. The best explanation, one suggested even by a non-LDS scholar, is that Deutero-Isaiah is older than has traditionally been assumed.