The Cross...What Is Our Fear Of It?

[Darren10]

Five recent events...

1. A very close friend asked me how I feel about the cross...she asked because she is a Catholic who coveted to Mormonism and wears a cross her mother gave her as a gift. She asked because others have questioned her wearing it. I told her, "I love it (I grew up Baptist) and that if she wanted too she should wear it..

Out of curiosity, would wearing the cross remind your friend pof Jesus or of her grandmother? There's nothing inherently wrong with either but our lives should reflect that of the Savior. Does wearing the cross as a piece of jewelry help that or does it take something sacred and display it is somewhat a vain manner? I agree it is her choice to wear one if she so desires and I'mnot one to ridicule LDS members for wearing one, especially since I do not know their specific circumstances or reasons for doing so. But having brought up the topic, I do think it prudent to direct her to she reflect upon why exactly she wants to wear that cross.

2. We have an outspoken older member who meets with High Priests...

Sheesh, what LDS ward doesn't?

3. Someone recently questioned why we have a cross on the front door of the Rome Temple.

Interesting. I did not know we did. I do know that when temples are built that the outside architict does include symbols of ther immediate culteur / society which hosts the temple. Perhaps that may be a reason to have the cross on the door.

4. A former Bishop of mine said that "even if the BoM were not true he would follow Joseph Smith". We have not spoken much since I told him he should be following Christ.

Absolutely we should all be folowing Christ. Snce I do not know the content behind your bishop's remark, I'll leave that one alone.

5. While teaching a Gospel Essentials" class, I talked about the fact that the atonement being taken place in the garden and on the cross.

That's my understanding. Christ suffered for our sins and that uffering began in Gethsemane.

I know some have problems with the cross as a symbol of our faith...WHY?

As I stated above, I'm not one to ridicule LDS members for wearing a cross but to me if a loved one was murdered in a gruesome manner I would spend far less time pondering on that loved one's death and manner thereof as I would pondering upon how that one lived. In terms of Jesus' death we can surmize that he a) suffered and b) died. Now, what's so remarkable about that? I say, absolutely nothing. In fact, to suffer and then die from one's suffering is simply being human. Now, what's remarkable about Jesus' death is that Jesus overcame death. Wielding the power to overcome death. To resurrect oneself from the grave: that's truly remakable, even supernatural and miraculous.

[Darren10]

cinepro #3 & CASteinman #18;

Excellent articles. President Hinkley truly was a great orator. In articles you posted (on the same topic) used excellent reasoning and logic. they articles were uplifting.

[Darren10]

No cross, but beehives everywhere!

Cuz them Mormons are sweet as honey!!!

[Darren10]

I do find these statements ironic in light of the explicit use of crucifixion imagery in the Temple narrative.

Being exposed to temple cerimony and wearing a piece of jewelry are two entirely different means of teaching and receiving the goespel, no?

[Darren10]

But his death and what he did for is the entire purpose of thr Sacrament.

Actually, the main purpose of the sacrament, as I see it, is to "remember him" and to "keep his commandments". It's not "his death" which is the "entire purpose" of the sacrament. It's very true that Jesus gave his life for us that we may a) receive forgivenss and b) live forever both individually and with our families and that His atoning sacifice is very integral to the weekly partaking ofthe sacrament but I do not recall where we are to think solely of Jesus' death during the sacrament.

[Darren10]

As for wearing a cross and sacred undergarments, I think the main differences are that the corss is used for adornment as well as a religious symbol when worn outside of one's clothing. The garments are worn under the clothing which naturally directs its user to think about and reflect upon the meaning behind them. Wearing a cross is outwardly and may be used to remember how one lived for us. The garments are a reflection about how we should live for the one who sacrificed Himself for us all.

[Darren10]

I know, that for people who revere it in the general Christian world, the Cross does not have a negative meaning. I respect their interpretation of what they consider they are showing when they display the cross.

But for me, personally, the cross is a more horrible image than an electric chair or a guillotine -- both of which are relatively efficient and limited in the sensible pain that they induce. To me the cross is an execution device on par with say, the Iron Maiden or the Rack out of the middle ages. When I realize how it was used and how horrible a device it was, it does not hold for me the same feeling that it does for those who reverence it. (I consider such reverence mistaken, but I do not criticize it because intent is so much more important that show). Because of the way I recognize and perceive it, I could never hold it in personal esteem so that I would wear it or display it with pride -- any more than I would consider a torture chair to be wonderful emblem of joyful faith and love.

So I would not wear it, but I do not criticize those who do - even the very few I have seen wear them in the Church. However, I would -- if I were a General Authority and saw it becoming commonplace, speak out against it.

I am very much in agreement with your summary.

[Darren10]

I can't see why this would mean we need to be intolerant or disrespectful to others. I would hope that while fully respecting the boundaries between us and the practices that mark them, we can also respect what others' religious and cultural practices mean to them.

Very true.

[Darren10]

Okay, I may not criticize it but I do recoil from it. The cross, garlic, holy water, the sun......they all make me uncomfortable.

OK. That was funny!!!

[treehugger]

I think that the church doesn't have a problem with the cross it is that the church teaches the Living Christ and is wary of the cross being the symbol that represents his death ( not that it wasnt part of the atoning sacrifice).

Though, a Prophet said it, I find it silly and lacking. I am reminded of Christ when I see a Cross, I reminded of my duties as a follower of Christ.

[CASteinman]

Though, a Prophet said it, I find it silly and lacking. I am reminded of Christ when I see a Cross, I reminded of my duties as a follower of Christ.

It is revealing that you find the Prophet's words -- about member's charitable acts and worthy lives being the best symbol of Christ -- being silly and shallow.

[altersteve]

I love the cross. I think it's a beautiful symbol.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Actually, the main purpose of the sacrament, as I see it, is to "remember him" and to "keep his commandments". It's not "his death" which is the "entire purpose" of the sacrament. It's very true that Jesus gave his life for us that we may a) receive forgivenss and b) live forever both individually and with our families and that His atoning sacifice is very integral to the weekly partaking ofthe sacrament but I do not recall where we are to think solely of Jesus' death during the sacrament.

His atonement is his death for our sins. The point is to partake of his body and his blood which he freely gave. We have life eternal because of what he did. I am not on either side...I am not offended by it. I just wonder about those who are. Many of our Temples and books have pictures of Christ on the cross. Also, we did not began with distancing ourselves from the cross as a symbol...that seems to have become latter Mormon culture.

[De Groote]

I wrote an article in the Mormon Times section of the Deseret News about Mormons using crosses based on Michael G. Reed's 2009 Sunstone presentation. It helps put the issue into an historical context. Here are some of the photos that were in the article, but somehow lost in the archiving process:

A floral cross at a funeral (Brigham City Tabernacle?):

An Elder with a cross watch fob:

The 1917 "This is the Place" Monument (I think that is B.H.Roberts):

Apostle John W. Taylor's kiddo in 1915:

Brigham Young's wife Amelia:

I put these here as illustrations to the Deseret News article until I can get it fixed there with proper attributions.

NOTE: Well, the photos wouldn't attach here either. I'll try again later.

Edited July 1, 2012 by De Groote

[Pepcigirl]

The early saints wore crosses. There is even a picture of Amelia, a wife of Brigham Young wearing a cross taken in 1895. The current aversion came about because of David O McKay who had a dislike of Catholics and considered the cross a Catholic symbol. It has never been voted on by the church to not use a cross, so in reality there is no reason why one should not wear one if one wants to.

From the Mormon Times [note especially the portions in bold]:

The Cross

In 1916 a church asked the Salt Lake City Council to allow them to build a huge cross, "the symbol of Christianity," on Ensign Peak. "We would like to construct it of cement, re-enforced with steel, of sufficient dimensions that it can be readily seen from every part of the city," the request read.

That request came from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The cross was to honor the Mormon pioneers.

Even though the proposal was approved by the City Council, the monument was never built.

Today, there are no crosses on Mormon temples. Yet two are shaped like a cross. Mormon chapels do not have crosses, either. But many have prints of the crucifixion hanging on their walls. Michael G. Reed, who has a bachelor of arts in humanities and religious studies and a master of art in liberal arts from California State University, Sacramento, explored at a recent Sunstone Symposium what he called, in rather charged language, the "LDS Contempt for the Christian Symbol."

Reed also uses the word "contempt" for how Protestants feel about the cross -- 19th-century Protestants, that is. It turns out that cross "aversion" was a Protestant pastime in times past. Its source was anti-Catholicism. Reed quoted historian Ryan K. Smith, who said that from 1820 to 1850 the number of Catholics in the United States grew from about 195,000 members to 1.75 million members, the largest religious body in the nation. And Catholics used crosses.

And so the Protestants didn't. "To Protestant Americans, the cross was perceived to be a strictly Catholic symbol," Reed said.

So the Mormons got their "opposition" to the cross from the Protestants?

Not so fast, according to Reed. Mormons did not pick up their feelings about the cross from the Protestants. At least not entirely.

"While searching for evidence to support the assumption that early Saints had initially rejected the symbol of the cross, I couldn't find any," Reed said.

As a church of converts from other churches, it shouldn't be surprising if some attitudes crept into Latter-day Saints' attitudes. But Reed couldn't find any hints of the Protestant cross attitudes until around 1877. By that time, Protestants had already begun adopting the cross as their own symbol.

Instead, Reed found the cross all over Mormondom. It appeared as jewellery on Brigham Young's wives and daughters. It appeared in floral arrangements in funerals. It appeared as tie tacks on men's ties and watch fobs on men's vests. It appeared on cattle as the official LDS Church brand. Crosses were on church windows, attic vents, stained-glass windows and pulpits. They were on gravestones and quilts.

Even two temples, the Hawaiian and the Cardston, Alberta Temple were described in a 1923 general conference as being built in the shape of a cross. Reed said the cross "taboo" was grass roots and began around the turn of the 20th century.

In 1916, when LDS Church Presiding Bishop Charles W. Nibley asked the Salt Lake City Council to approve the church's plan to erect a large cross to honor the pioneers, he didn't anticipate any opposition. He was, according to Reed, "quickly criticized, and even accused of succumbing to Catholic agenda."

Anti-Catholic feelings quashed the effort.

Mormon missionary work in predominantly Catholic countries "was very challenging," Reed said. Mexican (and presumably Catholic) revolutionaries had executed a Mormon branch president and his cousin the year before. The two were told before they were shot, "If you will renounce your religion and confess before the Virgin Mary, we will spare your lives."

"As a result of conflicts with Catholics abroad such as this, smaller conflicts with Catholics in Utah had a tendency to get blown to greater proportions," Reed said.

Just two weeks before the LDS Church's cross proposal, Catholic Bishop Joseph S. Glass complained about Mormons dancing on Good Friday. He decried a "city of unbelievers" and called upon others to protest. "Are there not enough Christians in Salt Lake City to command some kind of general respect for the holiest day of the year?"

Reed said Bishop Glass' protest offended Mormons, who traditionally did not observe Good Friday. Non-Mormons also thought it was "arrogant" for the bishop to "impose his religious convictions upon others."

This controversy was "fresh on the minds of many Utah citizens who opposed the 1916 Ensign Peak proposal," Reed said.

Plans for a monument on Ensign Peak were reluctantly set aside for almost two decades. But it was only a year later, on July 24, 1917, that a This Is the Place monument in the shape of a cross was erected at the mouth of Emigration Canyon.

For 40 more years the symbol of the cross continued to polarize Latter-day Saints. "While some rejected the symbol," Reed said, "others continued to embrace it."

In 1957, a jewellery store in Salt Lake City advertised cross jewellery for girls. LDS Church Presiding Bishop Joseph L. Wirthlin called President David O. McKay to see if it was proper for LDS girls to purchase the crosses to wear.

Reed believes that President McKay "institutionalized" the LDS Church's feelings toward the symbol in his reply. President McKay expressed two reasons why he didn't think it was a good idea.

He told Bishop Wirthlin that the crosses were "purely Catholic and Latter-day Saint girls should not purchase and wear them. ... Our worship should be in our hearts."

According to Reed's reading of Gregory Prince and Wm. Robert Wright's book "David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism," President McKay had developed some critical attitudes toward the Catholic Church when he served in the 1920s as president of the LDS Church's European Mission.

These attitudes ended when Catholic Bishop Duane Hunt met with President McKay about an LDS author's book that was highly critical of Catholics. President McKay began to "privately re-examine his own beliefs" about Catholicism, according to Reed.

Reed said that members of the LDS Church have rid themselves of "much of the anti-Catholic ideas of the past."

But even when the use of the cross is divorced from anti-Catholicism, Mormons, as a whole, still do not generally use the cross as an outward symbol of their faith.

In 1975, President Gordon B. Hinckley, then a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, spoke in general conference about the symbol of the cross. He recognized and respected how other churches view the symbol, and said, "But for us, the cross is the symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the living Christ."

"Contempt." "Aversion." "Opposition." "Taboo." Reed struggled throughout his presentation to find the right word to describe how Mormons feel about using the cross as a symbol. In a recent telephone interview, Robert A. Rees, an LDS scholar (and the "response" to Reed's presentation at the Sunstone Symposium), used the word "ambivalence" to describe Mormons' feelings toward using the cross as a symbol.

Not hostility, but a shifting ambivalence.

The attitude of Mormons toward the cross has changed over the years. Members of the LDS Church did not accept the 19th-century Protestant prejudice against the cross. Over time, some embraced the cross as a symbol and others avoided its use. Some even used it as a way to denigrate the Catholic Church.

Today members of the LDS Church concentrate on the body and blood of Christ more than the nails and wood. The cross may not be used as a special outward symbol any more than the crown of thorns, the whip and the spear, but thoughts of the cross and what it represents still cause Latter-day Saints to stand all amazed.

.

http://www.mormontim...e/home & family

Edited July 1, 2012 by Pepcigirl

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Actually, the main purpose of the sacrament, as I see it, is to "remember him" and to "keep his commandments". It's not "his death" which is the "entire purpose" of the sacrament. It's very true that Jesus gave his life for us that we may a) receive forgivenss and b) live forever both individually and with our families and that His atoning sacifice is very integral to the weekly partaking ofthe sacrament but I do not recall where we are to think solely of Jesus' death during the sacrament.

Yes, remembering what he did for via the atonement.

[Mike Reed]

C cross R

Try again.

An image I designed for a friend's page:

[rpn]

Perhaps someone else has noted this in the posts I haven't read. But the reason we don't use the cross is that David O McKay in the 50's decided the symbol was too close to promoting Catholism and therefore banned it as a symbol the church uses. His autobiography suggests (if I recall) that it was a personal decision, not one that went through church councils.

[Alan]

We have a cross on our chapel.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The cross only becomes a problem when someone makes it so.

Glenn

I thought I posted this in the discussion board...what happened?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

An image I designed for a friend's page:

Did you ever finish the book Mike?If so where can I get it?

[Calm]

I thought I posted this in the discussion board...what happened?

It was moved, don't know why.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

We have a cross on our chapel.

Is it LDS? If so can we post a picture?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

It was moved, don't know why.

But we cannot debate here can we? Edited July 1, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Calm]

Nope, I thought you asked for it to be moved so there wouldn't be debate. Maybe it was a mistake Ask the mods if it can be moved back.