Native American Skin Color

[Bernard Gui]

"Goodness," in this verse, is equated with "light"; "evil" is equated with "darkness." This is not some modern PC apologetic stance, this is correctly situating ancient texts in their unique cultural (and temporal) context. Since the Book of Mormon was published in America only three decades prior to the Civil War -- which was fought largely over slavery -- of course the first readers would interpret the verses in an anachronistic way, but if we're granting that the Book of Mormon is truly an ancient text, then the possibility -- no, the probability -- of modern interpretive lenses introducing anachronistic readings must be raised.

It is interesting that the sign of the curse was a skin of blackness (darkness). At the time the Book of Mormon was translated, the usual adjectives describing

Native American skin color (granted there is a great range of hues and tones) did not include black.

Bernard

[volgadon]

Jeremy, I think that the skin of blackness is literal, but not in the way it is commonly understood. This nuance is often missed, but it does the least amount of damage to the text/science/racial ethics. I think my point is best explained by a musical digression. Morenika a Mi Me Yaman is a pretty Ladino romance dating to the 19th century or so. Morenika is of course a female diminutive of Moro, that is, a Moor or Blackamoor. The girl in the song apologises for her dark, or black skin. It was burnt by the sun, not caused by anything else. The concept here is that dark skin can result from sin, as well as from natural causes. Sephardic Jews don't look Nordic, they look Mediterranean, if not darker. Morenika, then, would be a shade or so darker than usual, rather than the rest being pasty white. Of course this idea drew a lot from Christian Spanish folk culture, but it predates that culture by a good few thousand years. Song of Solomon 1:5-6. "'I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon. Look not upon me, that I am swarthy, that the sun hath tanned me..."

With this dual understanding, the Nephites would have looked at the dark skin of the Lamanites as a mark from God due to sin, whereas if someone had pointed out their own dark skins, the Nephites would have replied that it was the result of being out in the sun, not an indicator of moral standing. Once again, we see how this boils down more to subjectivity and self-definition more than any objective, verifiable scientific reality.

http://www.jewishfolksongs.com/en/jewish-folklore

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3039858?uid=3739856&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=56269181433

[Brant Gardner]

Did the Maya have white skin before the Lehites and Mulekites allegedly arrived in Mesoamerica?

What work I know of that has been done on skeletal remains would suggest that they were within the standard range of Native American pigmentation. What is quite interesting is that in many Maya paintings the most important people are depicted as black as opposed to the more normal coloration of the rest of the people in the picture. I suspect that it was body paint, but it is interesting that there was a reversal of our assumption of whether or not being black would be desirable. For them, it appears to have been.

[DBMormon]

What is quite interesting is that in many Maya paintings the most important people are depicted as black as opposed to the more normal coloration of the rest of the people in the picture.

If you were a Lamanite, you would think so too

Edited June 21, 2012 by DBMormon

[Aliwe]

It is interesting that the sign of the curse was a skin of blackness (darkness).

Back in the Day it was precisely reversed. Moses married an Ethiopian gal, and his sister Miriam had a problem with her skin color, so God taught Miriam a lesson by making her skin REALLY white.

Numbers 12:

[1] And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

. . .

[4] And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.

[5] And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

. . .

[10] And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow...

[Bernard Gui]

3 Nephi 2:15 is the one time in the entirety of the Book of Mormon in which the skins of any Lamanites were made white, but it was not the only time the curse of God, or the state of being cut off from the presence of the Lord, was removed from some of them, which has nothing to do with 4 Nephi and the rest of the Lamanites who were not referenced in 3 Nephi 2:15. 4 Nephi does not say that all the survivors of the destructions of the wicked were called the people of Nephi, which is why you are unable to cite a scriptural reference which shows otherwise.

The book records 3 instances when the curse was removed.

1. The Anti-Nephi-Lehis

Alma 23

16 And now it came to pass that the king and those who were converted were desirous that they might have a name, that thereby they might be distinguished from their brethren; therefore the king consulted with Aaron and many of their priests, concerning the name that they should take upon them, that they might be distinguished.

17 And it came to pass that they called their names Anti-Nephi-Lehies; and they were called by this name and were no more called Lamanites.

18 And they began to be a very industrious people; yea, and they were friendly with the Nephites; therefore, they did open a correspondence with them, and the curse of God did no more follow them.

Since the curse was removed, it is reasonable to conclude the sign of the curse was also removed.

2. The Lamanites during the Gadianton wars

3 Nephi 2

12 Therefore, all the Lamanites who had become converted unto the Lord did unite with their brethren, the Nephites, and were compelled, for the safety of their lives and their women and their children, to take up arms against those Gadianton robbers, yea, and also to maintain their rights, and the privileges of their church and of their worship, and their freedom and their liberty. 14 And it came to pass that those Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites;15 And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites; 16 And their young men and their daughters became exceedingly fair, and they were numbered among the Nephites, and were called Nephites.

13th year. This explicitly describes the removal of the curse as well its sign. It also demonstrates the resultant unification of the children of Lehi into one body called Nephites.

3. The Lamanites who survived the cataclysm at the death of Christ. 4 Nephi describes the process of unification Nephites and Lehites as the followers of Christ.

4 Nephi

2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.

3 And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift.

36th year. All people were converted. They have become one people. Those Lamanites converted during the Gadianton wars were already called Nephites and the curse and sign had been removed from them. Any remaining Lamanites were now converted. It can reasonably be assumed the same thing happened to them that happened to their brethren. There is no reason to assume removal of the curse would not also include removal of the sign.

4 Nephi

10 And now, behold, it came to pass that the people of Nephi did wax strong, and did multiply exceedingly fast, and became an exceedingly fair and delightsome people. 11 And they were married, and given in marriage, and were blessed according to the multitude of the promises which the Lord had made unto them.

60th year. They are now called the people of Nephi, i.e., Nephites. They become fair and delightsome. The former Lamanites are no longer loathsome to the Nephites.

The reason for the sign of the curse no longer applies. They are now fair and delightsome, and they intermarry.

One promise to the Lamanites was to remove the curse when they became righteous. Included in the promise was to remove that which made them loathsome to the Nephites.

And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

4 Nephi

16 And there were no envyings, nor strifes, nor tumults, nor whoredoms, nor lyings, nor murders, nor any manner of lasciviousness; and surely there could not be a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God.

17 There were no robbers, nor murderers, neither were there Lamanites, nor any manner of -ites; but they were in one, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God.

100th year. "A happier people" - singular, not "happier peoples." They are one people.

4 Nephi

20 And he kept it eighty and four years, and there was still peace in the land, save it were a small part of the people who had revolted from the church and taken upon them the name of Lamanites; therefore there began to be Lamanites again in the land.

190th year. Why "Lamanites"? They revolted from the church....separation based on religion. It does not say these were genetic Lamanites. They chose the name. By now, people have co-mingled.

4 Nephi

26 And they began to be divided into classes; and they began to build up churches unto themselves to get gain, and began to deny the true church of Christ.

201st year. Division into economic classes. Continuing religious division.

4 Nephi

And now it came to pass in this year, yea, in the two hundred and thirty and first year, there was a great division among the people.Nephites, and they were true believers in Christ; and among them there were those who were called by the Lamanites—Jacobites, and Josephites, and Zoramites; three disciples of Jesus who should tarry) were called Nephites, and Jacobites, and Josephites, and Zoramites.unbelief, but they did willfully rebel against the gospel of Christ; and they did teach their children that they should not believe, even as their fathers, from the beginning, did dwindle.taught to hate the children of God, even as the Lamanites were taught to hate the children of Nephi from the beginning.

Those who believe=Nephites, et al. Those who rebel=Lamanites, et al. One could take the position that the society reverts back to the old genetic division, but in context, it would appear the ancient teachings of the Lamanites are what is revived. With the reappearance of the Gadianton robbers, the division also becomes political and warfare commences.

I conclude that the survivors of the final wars are Lehites...a mixure of all the descendants of Lehi and Mulek. They are called Lamanites because that is the name they chose when they left the Lord's church. The curse and its sign have long been removed.

Hence, my question: On what scriptural basis is a darker skin equated with modern Native Americans? Does this passage indicate the curse and the sign were reinstated?

Mormon 5

15 And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.

16 For behold, the Spirit of the Lord hath already ceased to strive with their fathers; and they are without Christ and God in the world; and they are driven about as chaff before the wind. 17 They were once a delightsome people, and they had Christ for their shepherd; yea, they were led even by God the Father.

18 But now, behold, they are led about by Satan, even as chaff is driven before the wind, or as a vessel is tossed about upon the waves, without sail or anchor, or without anything wherewith to steer her; and even as she is, so are they.

Bernard

Edited June 23, 2012 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

Bump

[brightpath]

The Maya are the descendants of the Lamanites. They were not here prior to them nor were they Asian.

[Brant Gardner]

The Maya are the descendants of the Lamanites. They were not here prior to them nor were they Asian.

Unfortunately, there is very good evidence that your entire second sentence is incorrect, and I would strongly oppose the first.

[Calm]

brightpath has had extensive discussions before on this topic (populations present in the Americas). I don't think I've seen any change of position over the years. Here's a thread as an example from a bit ago:

She? also has idea about pure blood lines that some of you may recall talking to her about, IIRC she believes a pureblood Israelite is white:

Edited July 4, 2012 by calmoriah