ncfarmerjoe Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 Kevin, i wish not to pester you..really! but, received a email from amazon this morning that read they would not be able to complete my order for Temple Mysticism??? have you any idea of where this book may be available? thank you, joe
Kevin Christensen Posted May 29, 2012 Author Posted May 29, 2012 Kevin, i wish not to pester you..really! but, received a email from amazon this morning that read they would not be able to complete my order for Temple Mysticism??? have you any idea of where this book may be available?thank you, joeTry Amazon UK and get it from England. That is where I got mine.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Temple-Mysticism-Introduction-Margaret-Barker/dp/0281064830/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338303220&sr=1-1Best,Kevin ChristensenPittsburgh, PA
Craig Paxton Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 Thanks Kevin,I've long been frustrated with the tone and lack of civility in many of the threads I occationally engage in at MD&D. And while I freely admit that I've been guilty of fanning the flames on more than one occation...I too wish that participants could be less concerned about scoring retorical points and more concerend about building bridges of understanding. But having said that the very nature of MD&D ultimately will be to defend Mormonism at all costs...and that places both the believer and non-believers at odds with each other. When we each come from seeming positions of absoluteness...it is hard to give even an inch in the battle field...when such polar oposite positions are held...and there never seems to be a middle ground. 1
thesometimesaint Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 Craig Paxton:Mormons are known for their moderation, except when it comes to the truth claims of the Church. It all boils down to just one thing Is the Church what it claims to be? The Restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ.
Calm Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 having said that the very nature of MD&D ultimately will be to defend Mormonism at all costsSeems to me you are setting up the discussion so that there can be no middle ground right from the beginning if this is how you anticipate LDS responses.
Aliwe Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 Mormons are known for their moderation, except when it comes to the truth claims of the Church. It all boils down to just one thing Is the Church what it claims to be? The Restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ.Jesus said, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The doctrine of the restoration of the Church impies that the gates of hell did prevail against it, from 421 AD to 1830.
3DOP Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 Jesus said, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The doctrine of the restoration of the Church impies that the gates of hell did prevail against it, from 421 AD to 1830.Hi aliweThat's not good enough. One verse doesn't an apostasy prove, nor does one verse an apostasy disprove. I am Catholic, and don't believe the Church needed restoration, however, there is an adequate LDS reply to the usual Catholic affirmation of perpetuity of the Church based on Mt. 16. It involves a comparison of the Church to Christ (What could be more fitting?). Death and hell appeared to have defeated Christ while He was buried in the tomb. But He rose again. Restorationists do not say that the gates of hell prevailed against the Church. They very much believe that while it has appeared that it was so, the Church is "resurrected". Mt. 16 doesn't do the trick.Another note on that verse that seems to be often misunderstood. The gates of Hell would involve defensive military imagery. Gates are immobile and defensive. It is not the Church that is in danger of being vanquished by Hell, but the other way round anyway! In Mt. 16, the Church is militantly advancing and it is Hell that is under siege. ___________________Good observations Kevin Christenson. Maybe we shouldn't dialogue with those who we don't like. I mean that if we realize we dislike them, we might score points and win an argument, but we will lose any ability to win them to our position. We might alienate others of good will. Our antagonist will see that we treat him as the enemy and be blinded by our lovelessness to any truth we think we are sharing. We can all sense when we are held in disdain by someone else. If we can't bring ourselves to truly love our enemies as Christ said, we should at least have the good sense to not let them know we are failures! 2
Nemesis Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 Jesus said, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The doctrine of the restoration of the Church impies that the gates of hell did prevail against it, from 421 AD to 1830.This is a derail on an old topic. If you have something new to add that's fine or perhaps start a new topic.Nemesis
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