Unintended Consequences Of Gender Bias In The Lds Church

[Libs]

That's right. And I hope the young pups around here haven't deluded themselves into believing they can out hippie us old hippies. We were a part of the movement that put lib into liberal and rad into radical.

Like mfb, I was given a left-wing education. During junior high and high school, I was spoon-fed socialism by some of the most liberal teacher on the left coast. I participated in several "sit-ins" and protests against the Vietnam war and for racial integration. As mentioned here before, the race riots in Seattle broke out at the amusement park where I worked. Even at Ricks college I was the most radically-minded student there, which may not be saying much, though I did organize the campus chapter and was president of the leftist organization: Students for a More Democratic Society, and participated in what to my knowledge was the only peace rally/concert held at the school. I also found myself in the Dean's office several times because of my radical behavior.

As for my contributions to the feminist movement, I met and had my picture taken with Sonia Johnson at the Hill Camorah Pageant in the early 80's, and while at Ricks I instigated the only pantie raid in the school's history (at least to my knowledge).

And, while my mission rightly toned me down a bit, my first year back at BYU I was involved in an underground dorm newspaper, the editor of which later went on to form Sunstone Magazine.

So there...LOL.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wow, I'm dully impressed! But...what happened??? lol

You'll probably say you "grew up". Bah humbug.

[Libs]

Another movie I have managed to never watch. My sister thought he was hot, me not.

Oh dear..that movie is a classic. That man could dance!

[Log]

Wow, I'm dully impressed! But...what happened??? lol

You'll probably say you "grew up". Bah humbug.

As the old saying goes: "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

I think Wade just lost heart.

Just kidding, Wade!

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Thank G-d, I still have nine years!

[ERayR]

Are women more spiritual, more charitable, smarter than men? It is clear that some members of the church so believe. Yesterday in church, this idea was taught not once but three times by three different individuals, two of whom were male. As a mother of sons, this gender bias in favor of women disturbs me greatly. I actually composed an email to send to one of the speakers but decided to err on the side of mercy since I've put my foot in my mouth at the pulpit and in front of the classroom more times than I care to remember.

Below is the content of the email, it explains my position. The questions for discussion are these:

Do you believe that women are innately smarter, more charitable, and more spiritual than men?

What authoritative evidence validates your position (statements by GAs, scriptures, etc, not anecdotes)?

Have you heard this sentiment expressed in church by others to the extent that it may indicate a widespread belief?

When a speaker starts out with that premise my attention span shortens exponentially.

[Libs]

As the old saying goes: "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

I think Wade just lost heart.

Just kidding, Wade!

So do I.

[wenglund]

That is pretty bada$$, Wade. Props. Us young 'uns have to get what we know from mere book learnin' -- stuff like Power and the Idealists is pretty interesting, but it's just not the same as living it, y'know? I'll try to keep the flame alive for you old coots -- if I end up descending into y'all's brand of conservatism someday, feel free to say you told me so. *grin*

Please don't feel bad. Your day too will come. When the generation that follows you starts clamoring on their social holograph decks about petitioning God for all animals to hold the priesthood, you can regale them with your radical exploits on MD&B way back when.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

You'll probably say you "grew up". Bah humbug.

Hardly. Haven't you seen the immature way I sometimes behave around here? I really took to heart what the Savior said about becoming as a little child? LOL

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[BlueDreams]

Wow, I'm dully impressed! But...what happened??? lol

The LDS wore off

[The Nehor]

As the old saying goes: "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

I think Wade just lost heart.

And if you join the Tea Party at any age you've lost both.

[selek1]

And if you join the Tea Party at any age you've lost both.

Better the Tea Party than the OWS crowd....

http://townhall.com/...heir_sign_means

http://townhall.com/...chist_occupiers

Ignorant, proud, violent, and racially exploitative - what more could the Left dream of in their supporters?

Edited May 4, 2012 by selek1

[The Nehor]

Better the Tea Party than the OWS crowd....

http://townhall.com/...heir_sign_means

http://townhall.com/...chist_occupiers

Ignorant, proud, misinformed, and racially exploitative - what more could the Left dream of in their supporters?

Two sides of same coin.

[blackstrap]

I have recently been watching a series on the War in the Pacific,made in 1951. I cannot imagine the courage and strength required to live through that He!!.It set the "tenor" of a generation of men and women that took nothing for granted.Subsequent generations have slowly become used to a life of enormous advantage and are now decending into that abyss called entitlement.

[The Nehor]

I have recently been watching a series on the War in the Pacific,made in 1951. I cannot imagine the courage and strength required to live through that He!!.It set the "tenor" of a generation of men and women that took nothing for granted.Subsequent generations have slowly become used to a life of enormous advantage and are now decending into that abyss called entitlement.

And joblessness.

[LDSToronto]

As for my contributions to the feminist movement, I met and had my picture taken with Sonia Johnson at the Hill Camorah Pageant in the early 80's, and while at Ricks I instigated the only pantie raid in the school's history (at least to my knowledge).

How on earth does a pantie raid contribute to the feminist movement? Or getting your photo taken, for that matter?

H.

Edited May 4, 2012 by LDSToronto

[blackstrap]

Well,they had burned their bras so he was getting something else to burn.

[Libs]

Hardly. Haven't you seen the immature way I sometimes behave around here? I really took to heart what the Savior said about becoming as a little child? LOL

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

lol...touche'! How can argue with THAT?

[BlueDreams]

And, since I hope for forgiveness from past generation for not learning from their mistakes, it is incumbent upon me to be merciful to the rising generations who seem bent on following my youthful indiscretions, having the hope that they too will one day see the light.

Speaking as a younger person, I simply find the ideology of the boomer babies perplexing as a whole. If anything, extreme ideology in any direction isn't preferred. Though my friends and I have varying philosophical points of view most of them agree that polarization is ridiculous. From what I get of the hippy/reactionary movement is more to that: It's either this or that. And those who don't agree have something wrong with them (suckers to the Man, heartless, not truly converted to (conservative) Christ, young and naiive, old stuck-in-the-muds, etc). Personally I know of people who think women not holding the priesthood is a man-made construct and are very much believers. (myself not included, BTW). One of my best friends who loves the Gospel and the Church has just recently come to that conclusion in fact.

It's an important question to ask. Why are things the way they are? Is this God or us? What needs change and what doesn't? Gospel is a gospel of change....not just of the individual but the entire society. Can't change anything if we never wonder what needs to be fixed and how. To me there is plenty within our community, especially in aspects of gender, that needs to change. And the answer isn't in reasserting traditional gender lines/roles.

With luv,

BD

Edited May 4, 2012 by BlueDreams

[selek1]

Two sides of same coin.

Not even remotely.

The Tea Partiers haven't conspired to break the law- let alone handing out "how-to" pamplets and hosting seminars on how to assault a police officer and still look like a victim.

The Tea Partiers haven't defecated on streets and police vehicles.

The Tea Partiers haven't interfered with emergency services such as police, fire, and paramedics in order to stage a poltiical stunt.

The Tea Partiers haven't left behind hundreds of tons of human and toxic waste in their "encampments".

The Tea Partiers haven't handed out "open-minded", progressive documents like Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto.

The Tea Partiers haven't endorsed terrorist groups such as Hamas.

The Tea Partiers haven't deliberately destroyed hundreds of millions of dollars of other people's property.

The Tea Partiers haven't called for the violent overthrow of the government.

The Tea Partiers haven't commited hundreds of assaults with deadly force.

The Tea Partiers haven't left a dozen or so people dead.

The Tea Partiers haven't shielded rapists, molesters, and child abusers from justice- let alone told their victims to "get over it" in the name of solidarity.

The Tea Partiers haven't placed their toddlers on railroad tracks as a political statement.

The Tea Partiers haven't been caught with bombs, deadly weapons, and bottles of human feces and urine with which they intended to attack law enforcement officers- or even just people who disagree with them.

"Two sides of the same coin" is laughable on its face- and an insult to the intelligence of anyone actually paying attention.

Now- as this derailment is irretrievably political, I'm going to step aside.

It takes two to tango, and I'm going to remove half of that equation before the mods step in and do it themselves.

Edited May 4, 2012 by selek1

[divinenature]

Please don't feel bad. Your day too will come. When the generation that follows you starts clamoring on their social holograph decks about petitioning God for all animals to hold the priesthood, you can regale them with your radical exploits on MD&B way back when.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Are you comparing the desire to see women ordained to animals being ordained? Wow. Just wow.

[LDSToronto]

Please don't feel bad. Your day too will come. When the generation that follows you starts clamoring on their social holograph decks about petitioning God for all animals to hold the priesthood, you can regale them with your radical exploits on MD&B way back when.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm with you, Wade. As soon as the LDS church lets women hold the priesthood, what's next? Animals? Plants? Rocks? It's a slippery slope...

H.

[The Nehor]

"Two sides of the same coin" is laughable on its face- and an insult to the intelligence of anyone actually paying attention.

I disagree. That the Tea Party destroys with legislation and hyperindividualism does not make them less destructive. The final damage toll hasn't been counted yet. I also don't particularly care to debate which is worse. That's one of the devil's games. Communism is bad therefore pure capitalism is the answer. Being puritanical is bad therefore moral license should be granted to everything. Welfare abusers are bad so we should destroy all social safety nets. Sow hatred and enmity and the devil gets a bountiful crop.

Edited May 4, 2012 by The Nehor

[Libs]

Speaking as a younger person, I simply find the ideology of the boomer babies perplexing as a whole. If anything, extreme ideology in any direction isn't preferred.

Although, I agree with you that moderation is desirable, most of the time, it really isn't possible, when you're dealing with extreme social issues like segregation and other abuses of human rights. Extreme circumstances often require extreme counter measures...otherwise, the status quo prevails. Usually, after the change has been accepted, people go back to more moderate or even conservative views. Many (or even most) of the baby boomer generation are pretty conservative, at this point. They have become the defenders of the status quo, while the younger generation are making further inroads into social change (like the gay rights issue). It is the younger generation who mostly support the more liberal views. That has always been the case. They bring the changes and then become the defenders of those changes, as they get older.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Libs

[Bond...James Bond]

Not even remotely.

The Tea Partiers haven't deliberately destroyed hundreds of millions of dollars of other people's property.

The Tea Partiers haven't commited hundreds of assaults with deadly force.

The Tea Partiers haven't left a dozen or so people dead.

The Tea Partiers haven't shielded rapists, molesters, and child abusers.

The Tea Partiers haven't defecated on streets and police vehicles.

The Tea Partiers haven't called for the violent overthrow of the government.

The Tea Partiers haven't left behind hundreds of tons of human and toxic waste in their "encampments".

The Tea Partiers haven't handed out "open-minded" documents like Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto,.

The Tea Partiers haven't been arrested by the thousands, let alone for conspiracy to commit terrorism.

The Tea Partiers haven't been caught with bombs, deadly weapons, and bottles of human feces and urine with which they intended to attack law enforcement officers- or even just people who disagree.

The Tea Partiers haven't commited hundreds of assaults with deadly force.

The Tea Partiers haven't assaulted innocent bystanders, or threatened and intimidated people just trying to work or shop or get home to their families.

"Two sides of the same coin" is laughable on its face- and an insult to the intelligence of anyone actually paying attention.

CFFR for (use your imagination about the extra "F") Mein Kampf and a lot of this other crap. Let's just call CFR for everything I bold. Photos or it didn't happen.

And btw Tea Partiers have brought guns to protests so they have in fact been caught with deadly weapons.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Bond...James Bond

[The Nehor]

Well,they had burned their bras so he was getting something else to burn.

This is an urban legend. Never happened. At least not ever recorded.