Jeff K. Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I would note how some would take away marriage by making it so vague that no definition will fit it. That is exactly what is going on. The very challenge to "traditional marriage" reflects a certain nod and a wink reducing an important part of life on this earth to a semantic argument. Marriage will become such a vague concept that its meaning will whither to nothingness for society. But that is what they want. In essence they seek to destroy marriage by making it meaningless.
Mormonme Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I'm intrigued to know... Is the LDS Church actively fighting against Gay Marriage here in the UK?They are in Australia - Ambassadors for the Family and in the US - 8: The Mormon PropositionWhat about the UK?
thesometimesaint Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Jaybear:Aberrations don't prove the rule. They are exception to the rule. Edited March 13, 2012 by thesometimesaint
Mormonme Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I hope the LDS Church will be proactive in giving the Catholic Church their support.Why would you want the LDS church to support the Catholic Church? Nephi says it was founded by the devil.The Book of Mormon:1 Nephi 13:4 And it came to pass that I saw among the nations of the Gentiles the formation of a great church.1 Nephi 13:5 And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.1 Nephi 13:6 And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.1 Nephi 13:7 And I also saw gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots.
Jeff K. Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Oh Puhleeese, not that again....Standard answer: We aren't sure which church it speaks of. There have been various opinions which include the Catholic church, but such is not necessarily doctrine. Please note that the name of the church is not mentioned and it could, therefore be consigned to any powerful group. The LDS church has the utmost respect for the Catholic church as they both often work together in order to meet those outcomes important to the core beliefs, especially in such areas as family. 1
selek1 Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Why would you want the LDS church to support the Catholic Church? Nephi says it was founded by the devil.The Book of Mormon:1 Nephi 13:4 And it came to pass that I saw among the nations of the Gentiles the formation of a great church.1 Nephi 13:5 And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.1 Nephi 13:6 And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.1 Nephi 13:7 And I also saw gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots.Today's Weather Report:IQ's dropped precipitously on the MADB today, centered on a low pressure system in Post #54 in this very thread.Moderators have issued a Troll Warning.A Troll has been spotted in your area.This is only a warning.In the event of an actual Troll Sighting, posters are advised to use the Ignore and Report Buttons and avoid giving the Enfant Terrible any more attention than is absolutely necessary.
Somebodyz Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 The pink triangle as a outward symbol for homosexual started with the nazis, but that has nothing to do with whether or not the Lds Church will officially seek to influence a foreign goverments political process.I never thought of myself as a member of a foreign religion, til now.
zerinus Posted March 13, 2012 Author Posted March 13, 2012 I'm intrigued to know... Is the LDS Church actively fighting against Gay Marriage here in the UK?I am hoping that it will.They are in Australia - Ambassadors for the Family and in the US - 8: The Mormon PropositionWhat about the UK?I am not aware of anything specific yet; but the LDS Church has a history of cooperating with the Catholic Church on such issues.
Mormonme Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Today's Weather Report:IQ's dropped precipitously on the MADB today, centered on a low pressure system in Post #54 in this very thread.Moderators have issued a Troll Warning.A Troll has been spotted in your area.This is only a warning.In the event of an actual Troll Sighting, posters are advised to use the Ignore and Report Buttons and avoid giving the Enfant Terrible any more attention than is absolutely necessary.What an unpleasant thing to say.I was merely wondering why members of 'the one true restored church on Earth' are now so keen to team up with the other 'untrue' religions on this issue? I've quoted TBOM to show exactly what the mormon religions teachings are about these other 'untrue' religions.And you're attacking my IQ why exactly?
Jeff K. Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I suggest you review what you have written. It is singular, therefore which religious institution was it written about? We don't know. It may be a church that hasn't even been formed yet. So your points are irrelevant and you make assumptions and presume them to be facts. The most untrue thing in your post is the designation that other religions are untrue. Not having all the truth and authority does not make a religion "untrue", there is wisdom to be found in many places. You should learn more about the church before you make such judgements about our church.
Mormonme Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I am hoping that it will.And I respect your opinion.I hope that it won't.Recently engaged to my partner of 13 years I'm very much looking forward to getting married in the near future. Which is why I wholeheartedly support our priministers decision to change the law. In my 20 years of living in London i've never once personally experienced any form of homophobia. I've found it to be the most welcoming and accepting city/society in the World. I can't see this changing for the sake of a minorities religious beliefs.
Jeff K. Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I think Great Britian had and has a great deal to offer to the world. I deeply respect their history and culture. They laid the foundation for the US.
Mormonme Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I suggest you review what you have written. It is singular, therefore which religious institution was it written about? We don't know. It may be a church that hasn't even been formed yet. So your points are irrelevant and you make assumptions and presume them to be facts. The most untrue thing in your post is the designation that other religions are untrue. Not having all the truth and authority does not make a religion "untrue", there is wisdom to be found in many places. You should learn more about the church before you make such judgements about our church.OK... As somebody who believes the Book of Mormon was a work of Fiction by Joseph Smith. I believe he was referring to the Catholic Church in these instances. In the early 1800's when a lot of the new Evangelical Protestant religions were being formed it was incredibly popular to criticise the Catholic church for its excess - "gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing". Back when I was growing up in the Mormon church, there was never a doubt those passages were reffering to the Catholic church. My appologies, I've obviously not kept up with the PC updates now you're all best friends.
Jeff K. Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) I agree with your take on the historical aspects of the time, but that does not mean the reference was specifically for Catholics. When I was growing up in the church, some said it was Catholic, others said it was not. There was in effect no doubt.... that it was an opinion. Edited March 13, 2012 by Jeff K.
california boy Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Just curious why there is all this discussion about UK legalizing gay marriage when there are something like 5 states that have gay marriage issues on the ballot in the US including Washington and Maine where gay marrriage is now the law in those states. Possibly New Jersey will have gay marriage on the ballot if governor Christi has his way. Yet not a peep out of the Mormon church. Where are all the phone banks coming out of Utah and call for money and time from the members? Where are the satilite broadcasts to train the members to fight against the rights of gays to marry? Where is the political activism? Is the church only interested in California following their dogma? Doesn't the church want the entire world to follow their teachings on gay marriage?
california boy Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Count on the anti Mormons to sneer and laugh.Oh yeah isn't that typical of you Jeff. You like to accuse me of being anti Mormon and saying things against the church. You are the same guy that I have asked repeatedly for a CFR where I have said anything against the church or its leaders. I may disagree with the churches stance on gay marriage, but I certainly have never spoken badly against the church. You have over 1200 posts to find ONE instance where I have said anything bad against the church or about its leaders YET after repeated requests for a CFR you whimper in the corner and are no where to be found. You have yet to apologize for saying these falsehoods about me and you have yet to come up with any proof for your remarks. Jeff, you are a guy who has no honesty and no morals. And I have plenty of proof of that. A person with morals does not break the commandments by bearing false witness against others. And I am not the only one. You seem to consistently want to personally attack others with false accusations. When they also ask for CFR's you hide like a little kid not willing to apologize for your falsehoods. Personally I don't see how the moderators let you get away with out answering these regular unsupported CFR's. I thought it was one of the rules of this board.
blackstrap Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 once burnt twice shy.Perhaps,like the ancient king, they see the writing on the wall. "you have been weighed in the balance and found wanting."As for CB, his post # 65 serves as a response to his CFR if only by implication.If it does not rise to the mote/beam level of difficulty at least it is mote/mote.
Calm Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) OK... As somebody who believes the Book of Mormon was a work of Fiction by Joseph Smith. I believe he was referring to the Catholic Church in these instances. In the early 1800's when a lot of the new Evangelical Protestant religions were being formed it was incredibly popular to criticise the Catholic church for its excess - "gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing". Back when I was growing up in the Mormon church, there was never a doubt those passages were reffering to the Catholic church.Just how old are you? I'm in my 50s and the idea was condemned by any church leaders, family or friends from the first time I heard it when I was in elementary school. That it was accepted among the older set and got promoted by BRM's first edition....as you say it was a typical Protestant idea that had migrated into LDS folklore along with Protestant converts that unfortunately took root among a certain set of individuals, but it was never taught IIRC as doctrine within the church organization. Orson Pratt's work that contained this claim was condemned by his church leadership, Bruce R. McConkie's claim was condemned and required to be removed from his work by the First Presidencyhttp://en.fairmormon...ominable_church for discussion on how a few early church leaders viewed the GAC as well as any official statements on it by church leadershipAll one has to do is read the text, there are requirements for the GAC that the RCC has never matched. Edited March 13, 2012 by calmoriah
blackstrap Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I still find it confusing when the Great and Abominable is called a Church. I think that it means that it is a recognizable organization.I can see the reasoning that there is a metaphorical aspect to it,yet the word church implies a religious adherence,an identifiable congregation.Is it that a person must belong to one camp or the other? No gray camps?
california boy Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) once burnt twice shy.Perhaps,like the ancient king, they see the writing on the wall. "you have been weighed in the balance and found wanting."As for CB, his post # 65 serves as a response to his CFR if only by implication.If it does not rise to the mote/beam level of difficulty at least it is mote/mote.This thread is about whether the church will be involved with the Catholic church in the UK over gay marriage. I simply am asking if anyone thinks that the church will also get involved in the gay marriage issue in this country as it did in California. How is that anti mormon in any way? And quite frankly how is that a sneer? How is that showing disrespect for the church? Like I said, I don't agree with the church over gay marriage, but I certainly have always supported the right of the church to get involved in the political process. If that is what it takes to be called anti Mormon then there are a heck of a lot of active members of the church that are also "anti-Mormon" including a few bishops and stake presidents. I certainly am not the only one that disagrees with the church on its political position. Edited March 13, 2012 by california boy
Jeff K. Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) I simply am asking if anyone thinks that the church will also get involved in the gay marriage issue in this country as it did in California. Lets see if that is really true.....Just curious why there is all this discussion about UK legalizing gay marriage when there are something like 5 states that have gay marriage issues on the ballot in the US including Washington and Maine where gay marrriage is now the law in those states. Possibly New Jersey will have gay marriage on the ballot if governor Christi has his way. Yet not a peep out of the Mormon church. Where are all the phone banks coming out of Utah and call for money and time from the members? Where are the satilite broadcasts to train the members to fight against the rights of gays to marry? Where is the political activism? Is the church only interested in California following their dogma? Doesn't the church want the entire world to follow their teachings on gay marriage? See alot of sneering in there. Your post is its own CFR, if you don't like it, change your attitude about the church and its leaders. I should thank you for providing the perfect reflection as to how you view the church and its leadership. I think honest discourse is important, even when people disagree. Of course some will disdain honesty while accusing others of not having it.That post is an excellent CFR to your challenge. Edited March 13, 2012 by Jeff K.
Mormonme Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Just how old are you? I'm in my 50s and the idea was condemned by any church leaders, family or friends from the first time I heard it when I was in elementary school. That it was accepted among the older set and got promoted by BRM's first edition....as you say it was a typical Protestant idea that had migrated into LDS folklore along with Protestant converts that unfortunately took root among a certain set of individuals, but it was never taught IIRC as doctrine within the church organization. Orson Pratt's work that contained this claim was condemned by his church leadership, Bruce R. McConkie's claim was condemned and required to be removed from his work by the First Presidencyhttp://en.fairmormon...ominable_church for discussion on how a few early church leaders viewed the GAC as well as any official statements on it by church leadershipAll one has to do is read the text, there are requirements for the GAC that the RCC has never matched.BRM, IIRC, GAC, RCC. I'm sorry, I'm not up on the Mormon lingo, you lost me at BRM?Whatever your point, as an outsider it is blatantly obvious these passages are refering to the Catholic church in the early 1800's. The fact it's no longer politically correct within the Mormon church to recognise this is both delusion and denialism.Back to topic, I hope for the Mormon Church's own sake it stays away from this issue in the UK as getting involved will only further diminish it's reputation in a country that has no place for religious bigotry and homophobic preaching. 1
Jeff K. Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 BRM, IIRC, GAC, RCC. I'm sorry, I'm not up on the Mormon lingo, you lost me at BRM?Whatever your point, as an outsider it is blatantly obvious these passages are refering to the Catholic church in the early 1800's. The fact it's no longer politically correct within the Mormon church to recognise this is both delusion and denialism.Back to topic, I hope for the Mormon Church's own sake it stays away from this issue in the UK as getting involved will only further diminish it's reputation in a country that has no place for religious bigotry and homophobic preaching.No it isn't blatently obvious since crimson colors are used by multiple religions, you show some regal robes and you automatically think is Catholic? Really? I realize the ethnocentrism influences what you read, but that is like presuming King David was a blonde. It is an assumption open to much criticism. I would suggest that perhaps you are unfamiliar with the church and are reduced to reading third hand talking points that provide no true depth of knowledge. Parrots rarely make clear contributions.Should religious institutions refrain from speaking on moral issues that have entered the political arena? Do you really believe that? If so, what is the role of the church in your world? Or do you prefer its non existence?
Mormonme Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 No it isn't blatently obvious since crimson colors are used by multiple religions, you show some regal robes and you automatically think is Catholic? Really? I realize the ethnocentrism influences what you read, but that is like presuming King David was a blonde. It is an assumption open to much criticism. I would suggest that perhaps you are unfamiliar with the church and are reduced to reading third hand talking points that provide no true depth of knowledge. Parrots rarely make clear contributions.Should religious institutions refrain from speaking on moral issues that have entered the political arena? Do you really believe that? If so, what is the role of the church in your world? Or do you prefer its non existence?OK, I'll rephrase... To me personally, who views TBOM as a work of fiction in the early 1800's it is blatantly obvious.This topic is really hot in the UK news today. The traditionally right wing papers (Like the Daily Mail) are backing the Catholic stance while the more liberal papers (Like the Guardian) are showing strong support for Gay marriage. The Best article I've seen so far is this one: Renamed Ben and Jerry’s flavour backs equal marriage in the UK - I always loved their Ice Cream!
Recommended Posts