What Can We Deduce From This Creation?

[inquiringmind]

I forget the chapter and verse right now, but a Book of Mormon prophet once said that if there were no God there could be no creation.

Is that a valid deduction?

In what sense is the world we see evidence of God?

Non-Mormon Theists often speak of "Intelligent Design."

Does that work for Mormons?

What about "Intelligent Organization"?

Would that be better?

What would an I O argument for the existence of God look like, how would it be different from the I D argument, and what could we rightly deduce from it?

If things like intelligence and element (matter, law, energy, minds) are uncreated (and without beginning or end)), how does the universe we see point to the existence of a God?

Edited February 16, 2012 by inquiringmind

[CV75]

I forget the chapter and verse right now, but a Book of Mormon prophet once said that if there were no God there could be no creation.

There are a couple of places:

The whole of 2 Nephi Chapter 2, which is really about opposition in all things (creation vs. no creation; existence vs. non-existence; act vs. acted upon; purpose vs. impulse; see verse 11 also), where God creates, exists, acts, etc.

The whole of 2 Nephi Chapter 11, which is really a testimony of Christ.

These chapters serve as an invitation to deduce according to those who have actually seen, or apply a particle of faith, until one’s own testimony is obtained.

[thesometimesaint]

inquiringmind:

It really is just a religious belief. However I don't have a problem have a problem with God.

[BCSpace]

If things like intelligence and element (matter, law, energy, minds) are uncreated (and without beginning or end)), how does the universe we see point to the existence of a God?

While God has always been our God in this infinity and is the Creator of this universe, I hypothesize that this information points to an existence before there were any Gods at all. That the first Gods uplifted themselves to that status via evolution/Tower of Babel scenarios and now have a much improved and perfected method for Deification and the advancement of the homo sapiens species.

[David T]

I love the view as Creation as "giving Functional Purpose". Just as Joseph taught that God found our intelligences and lifted them up and gave them purpose, I believe He found and observed this earth, and the biological life on it, and lifted it up from something following the inevitable reactions of the material universe doomed to atrophy to a place where spirits (lifted up intelligences) could reside, dwell, and learn in suitable biological hosts.

The earth and life here would have materially existed without God, but God inserted Intelligence and Meaning to the earth. This, from my perspective, is the power of Creation.

God takes the Natural, and by his giving it purpose and meaning, makes it Supernatural. It's not a matter of harnessing the elements. It's not a matter of physically forming and splicing Atoms. It's not a matter of literally continuing his genetic material. It's a matter of finding Chaos, and exalting it by giving it Purpose. I love that.

Edited February 16, 2012 by nackhadlow

[The Nehor]

While God has always been our God in this infinity and is the Creator of this universe, I hypothesize that this information points to an existence before there were any Gods at all. That the first Gods uplifted themselves to that status via evolution/Tower of Babel scenarios and now have a much improved and perfected method for Deification and the advancement of the homo sapiens species.

I'm going to go with the Kolob hymn and disagree and say that there was no beginning or end.

[The Nehor]

I forget the chapter and verse right now, but a Book of Mormon prophet once said that if there were no God there could be no creation.

Is that a valid deduction?

Is it valid? Yes.

Unanimously proved? No.

In what sense is the world we see evidence of God?

It proves that if there is a God that he has a great eye for beauty because the Universe is beautiful. It also shows that God is not particularly concerned with our physical safety because the universe is very dangerous. It shows that this earth is not enough for mankind as we always want more so either the earth needs to be improved or we need to go elsewhere to find full satisfaction.

If things like intelligence and element (matter, law, energy, minds) are uncreated (and without beginning or end)), how does the universe we see point to the existence of a God?

My answer would be organization.

I also think we know too little about creation to say much with certainty what these things mean in terms of how things came to be as they are. I find the reasoning of LDS thinkers inadequate to elucidate them. These things need revelation.

[BCSpace]

While God has always been our God in this infinity and is the Creator of this universe, I hypothesize that this information points to an existence before there were any Gods at all. That the first Gods uplifted themselves to that status via evolution/Tower of Babel scenarios and now have a much improved and perfected method for Deification and the advancement of the homo sapiens species.

I'm going to go with the Kolob hymn and disagree and say that there was no beginning or end.

I've always agreed with that. The context being, this infinity within a larger one. The uncreated items mentioned also imply it.

[mbh26]

While God has always been our God in this infinity and is the Creator of this universe, I hypothesize that this information points to an existence before there were any Gods at all. That the first Gods uplifted themselves to that status via evolution/Tower of Babel scenarios and now have a much improved and perfected method for Deification and the advancement of the homo sapiens species.

I would agree with you BCSpace. I've thought that as well.

[inquiringmind]

What do you think of this blog?

[thesometimesaint]

Very good. You might like http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/corporea.htm