On Fairness

[wenglund]

Who is John Galt?

Today, he is the Tea Party movement.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Calm]

I think we all, even from an early age, feel a sense of unfairness or injustice about certain things around us. At times we can't even articulate why we feel it is unfair, but the feeling persists nonetheless. We just know that that is unfair.

Usually, at an early age one can observe that what is fair and unfair being understood to be generally interpreted through the rules of 'I want it now' (unfair if the child doesn't get it) and 'I don't want it now' (perfectly fair if the child doesn't get it or has to share it). Unfortunately some never get past this stage.

[Deborah]

It seems that most people think of fair in terms of getting something someone else has whether they need it or have earned it or not. This is where governments gets in trouble, when they try to make it fair for everyone. There is no such thing.

Harrison Bergeron?

Edited February 10, 2012 by Deborah

[blueadept]

Usually, at an early age one can observe that what is fair and unfair being understood to be generally interpreted through the rules of 'I want it now' (unfair if the child doesn't get it) and 'I don't want it now' (perfectly fair if the child doesn't get it or has to share it). Unfortunately some never get past this stage.

I think a better observation is that the motto of middle children is "that's not fair" in comparing what their older and younger siblings receive. I'm not sure that middle children ever grow out of the "that's not fair" scenario.

[JDave]

Usually, at an early age one can observe that what is fair and unfair being understood to be generally interpreted through the rules of 'I want it now' (unfair if the child doesn't get it) and 'I don't want it now' (perfectly fair if the child doesn't get it or has to share it). Unfortunately some never get past this stage.

That is a good point. Maybe the sense of unfairness is deeper and more visceral just because it hurts more. There may actually not be any easier way of recognizing "unfair" versus "fair".

[The Nehor]

Unfairness seems to be built into the gospel. When the prodigal son returned he got the fatted calf killed in his honor. The older son complained that he never got so much as a lamb. The father's gentle discussion with him was only that one day he would have all. There was no promise that he would get the lamb to make merry with his friends despite deserving it in comparison to his brother.

If there is any fairness it is not on this side of the veil or is a kind of fairness so foreign to us that we can't understand it and are better off just ignoring it anyways.

[JDave]

Unfairness seems to be built into the gospel.

True. Even the atonement seems in many ways unfair. Was it fair that Christ died? Is it fair to be granted the grace of Christ through the atonement? It is true that salvation depends on our accepting Christ's sacrifice for us, but as we are ever and always unprofitable servants it can't be said that we deserve salvation.

The very concepts of love and service don't operate under any semblance of fairness.

[Mark Beesley]

I hope that this is not true. My hope is that the sum of my existence (premortal, mortal, postmortal) will have a bearing on what I receive. While this life has great effect on the final judgment, there are still things to do in the next and things that have been done in the previous that will determine the reward. It would be unfair to ignore any of the good that has been done in the whole plan of progression. MW

This is exactly what I was thinking. Any effort to try and make sense of this world in terms of fairness is destined to fail miserably without a recognition that this mortal existence is not the only time we have had or will have to act.

As for the concept of final judgment . . . well, I think of in terms of finality as to the works of mortality. But the term final judgment is not found in the scriptures, to my knowledge.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Mark Beesley

[Calm]

I think a better observation is that the motto of middle children is "that's not fair" in comparing what their older and younger siblings receive. I'm not sure that middle children ever grow out of the "that's not fair" scenario.

I'm a middle child! That's not fair!

But the first 7 years I was the baby....so maybe I'll forgive you.

[asbestosman]

Unfairness seems to be built into the gospel. When the prodigal son returned he got the fatted calf killed in his honor. The older son complained that he never got so much as a lamb. The father's gentle discussion with him was only that one day he would have all. There was no promise that he would get the lamb to make merry with his friends despite deserving it in comparison to his brother.

The parable of the laborers in the vineyard also comes to mind. The Lord ends up paying the everyone the same despite the fact that some worked much longer than others. So indeed we have some element of unfairness built into the gospel. On the other hand we have the golden rule. We also have a scripture condemning the world for one man having more (possessions) than another. Yet we also have King Benjamin telling us that even if the poor deserve their situation, we still owe it to them to extend mercy. The parable of the Unmerciful Servant also makes this point.

If there is any fairness it is not on this side of the veil or is a kind of fairness so foreign to us that we can't understand it and are better off just ignoring it anyways.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think I quite get fairness yet. However, there are some things I understand. I can see how I'm receiving much more mercy than I can ever extend. Therefore it's unfair of me not to extend as much mercy as I can. I think as a matter of practicality, it makes sense to suffer injustices without always demanding fairness. Walk 2 miles if compelled to walk 1. Yet I also see that we are held responsible for trying to treat others with fairness to their benefit at a minimum through the golden rule and such. There are still many things I'm not sure about. I don't quite understand why some people have to suffer so much in this life. I don't understand why God protects some innocent people and not others.

[TAO]

Tbh, I think that the reason is because we need to worry about getting what Christ wants to give us, and not about what other people have, or will get. We must be willing to give others more than we have ourselves.

Another good example of the different work, same pay issue is with the second part of the parable of the lost son... the other son falls into a bad path, because he is jealous that he didn't go 'wayward for the moment' like the other son. But we must always remember as members of the gospel, that we should not desire that; we must be willing to let others have more than us, and still be charitable, I guess.

[The Nehor]

The parable of the laborers in the vineyard also comes to mind. The Lord ends up paying the everyone the same despite the fact that some worked much longer than others. So indeed we have some element of unfairness built into the gospel. On the other hand we have the golden rule. We also have a scripture condemning the world for one man having more (possessions) than another. Yet we also have King Benjamin telling us that even if the poor deserve their situation, we still owe it to them to extend mercy. The parable of the Unmerciful Servant also makes this point.

If I gave the impression we should be unfair then I apologize. I agree with everything you said.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think I quite get fairness yet. However, there are some things I understand. I can see how I'm receiving much more mercy than I can ever extend. Therefore it's unfair of me not to extend as much mercy as I can. I think as a matter of practicality, it makes sense to suffer injustices without always demanding fairness. Walk 2 miles if compelled to walk 1. Yet I also see that we are held responsible for trying to treat others with fairness to their benefit at a minimum through the golden rule and such. There are still many things I'm not sure about. I don't quite understand why some people have to suffer so much in this life. I don't understand why God protects some innocent people and not others.

Yeah, I try not to pass judgment on the whole thing as my response to such questions tends to be along the lines of, "Be still and know that I am God." Not a satisfactory answer but all I am likely to get before omniscience kicks in.

[asbestosman]

If I gave the impression we should be unfair then I apologize.

Not at all. Your post simply provided inspiration for those thoughts. I don't think there are many who would argue that we can treat others unfairly without any concern. It is only in specific pet causes (especially political) that we seem inclined to argue something else.

The question arises in my mind, when is it appropriate to treat others in a way they deem unfair? While I think we are constrained to be peacemakers, we're also not supposed to violate our other standards. One thing that comes to mind is when a child protests it's unfair that you punish him for not eating his broccoli , but nobody punishes adults who simply choose not to eat things they really don't like. Is this really a question of prioritizing our values such that while fairness is important, something else is more important (say, obedience or purity)?

[JDave]

Not at all. Your post simply provided inspiration for those thoughts. I don't think there are many who would argue that we can treat others unfairly without any concern. It is only in specific pet causes (especially political) that we seem inclined to argue something else.

On the contrary, I think that we should treat others unfairly quite often. We should not do them injustice however. Loving and serving others isn't necessarily "fair".

[The Nehor]

This is a good short segment on unfairness and my usual reaction to it:

"What kind of a cruel and ANGRY GOD????"

Edited February 13, 2012 by The Nehor