Archbishop Abused For His Stand On Marriage

[frankenstein]

So Jeff what you are saying is that only homosexuals cheat on their spouses? That only homosexuals having broken the hearts of their children and wives......perhaps you should read the Book of Mormon, I believe Jacob is a good place for you to start.

[Jeff K.]

You are saying that Frankenstein, but feel free to dodge the issue of justifying such actions. The issue is justification, most honest and moral people decry such actions, however some people are fine in justifying it within their group. You seem to be less than able or willing to confront the issue. I understand, better to deflect than honestly debate.

[Daniel2]

One could ask if it is just to destroy one's family for sex with someone else. What kind of person does that?

One could ask what kind of person justifies innocent deaths in order to achieve their own political ends? What kind of person is that. I wonder how many innocent people, children even, have to get hurt before they even think of questioning their own tactics? One child, many children or elderly? Who should be made destitute? What kind of person is fine with such acts against innocents?

Well, those types of persons seem to enjoy posting as anti Mormons here. They are, after all, "that kind of person".

I think you follow just fine, you simply wish to justify the destructive actions of your group.

On a personal basis, my children have been spat upon by "your group" (while shouting I hope you get my AIDS). To you that apparently is a civil right. To you the violence committed upon others is a justifiable action. Leaving one's wife for sex with others to you is part of the formulae. To you it is what you want, not respecting the rights of others. Such is your group. And as such, you gladly justify such actions. You people are so inwardly focused on your own wants and needs, you gladly trample upon everyone else. As the original article makes abundantly clear.

Jeff,

Whenever you've brought up these same actions you enumerate now (as you've done before, here on this board), I have repeatedly and emphatically denounced the hateful, violent actions you describe, and which you and your family have alledgedly endured. Yet you seem Hell-bent (in a very literal sense) of continually bringing up as evidence for your seeming inability to approach the issue from a rational perspective. It is clear that not only have you been inable to forgive those that have oppressed you, but you have even over-generalized your rancor by holding me and other gays and lesbians accountable for the dispicable actions of a few.

Let me be clear: I have never spit on anyone. I have never wished AIDS on anyone. I have never condoned violence towards anyone. I condemn anyone who does. I do not believe, nor have I ever advocated, that anyone has "a civil right" to spit on others--or that violence towards others is a justifiable action. I do not advocate leaving one's spouse, or abandoning one's children, or intentionally harming either, merely "to have sex with others."

It is certainly sad to continually read about the harsh, violent, hateful, dispicable behaviors that have been directed towards you and your family. I hope, for your sake, you'll eventually find forgiveness in your heart--for your sake, as well as those around you. I would invite you to review your leaders counsel: http://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&query=forgiveness There is healing power in forgiving.

Now... if you'd like to move beyond making this thread about you (which I think is certainly approrpriate), I'd suggest you avoid any indications of claiming ongoing personal victimization (and I would suggest that California Boy do the same).

Daniel2

[Jeff K.]

Apparently you are inconsistent.

Yes. A "movement" should not be held accountable for isolated incidents by individuals. Similarly, for example, I wouldn't characterize or condemn the "Pro-Life" movement as "violent" (or even "responsible, as a whole) for the actions of a select few radicals who have killed doctors and bombed abortion clinics. Nor would or do I condemn the organization of the United States Marines for the stupid act of a few select individuals of urinating on the bodies of slain enemies. Nor would I condem the civil rights' movement's promotion of and struggle for racial equality for militant and violent tactics against police by The Black Panthers. Nor would or do I hold accountable or condemn the LDS movement for isolated instances of irresponsible, irrational, or violent behaviors, such as missionaries mocking sacred sites of other Faiths (I'm thinking if an incident involving Buddhist statue, a few years back), or Mormons who lethally responded to a group of non-LDS settlers peacefully passing through their territory by killing them.

Not one person has been prosecuted for actions against individuals in CA. You are fine with that. Your group, the group you so vociferously defend has done all of those things. Think about that inconsistency.

[Daniel2]

Apparently you are inconsistent.

Not one person has been prosecuted for actions against individuals in CA. You are fine with that. Your group, the group you so vociferously defend has done all of those things. Think about that inconsistency.

Eight people were arrested. I don't now the specifics and whether or not such arrests were warrented, or appropriate--but I would classify that as the first step to prosecution. As I've already said, I 'm unaware of how the prosecution of the individuals of said arrests has progressed. I hope that individuals found guilty are appropriately punished according to law.

I do not defend "a group." I defend the ideals of the LGBT movement and equal civil rights for all citizens (LGBT, LDS, etc).

Contrary to what you assert, I don't believe that "groups" commit the type of allegations being made here--I submit that individuals do. And I advocate holding individuals responsible accordingly.

I don't understand how or agree with your assertion that I've am inconsistent.

Daniel2

[Jeff K.]

They walked... not even a fine.

[Jeff K.]

I do not defend "a group." I defend the ideals of the LGBT movement and equal civil rights for all citizens (LGBT, LDS, etc).

I ideals include those self same tactics. If Mormon missionaries began painting grafitti on Jewis synagogues and intimidating Jews and their children. I would be the first to condemn those that support such a thing, even the church leadership that sought to justify it because at its core I know its wrong.

You and your group are silent to such actions. In fact there is that smug assertion from some in your corner that it is deserved given the church dared raise the issue of morality and family. So spare me the contradictions of your writings, and honestly confront and have the leadership you so slavishly defend confront their issues and lack of respect for those that think differently on moral issues.

[Ares]

Posters heal thyself.