Duncan Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 In Abraham 3:22 it talks about many of the noble and great ones and in verse 23 it says that they were souls that Christ would use as his rulers-don't know what that means it today's Church! haha! then it says in verse 24 it talks about Christ creating an earth and we will go down. So my question is that "many" of these noble and great ones doesn't mean all of them-so who else is a noble and great one that is somehow doing something else and what does that all mean?and yes, I realize this is like my 293 question this week!
zerinus Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) In Abraham 3:22 it talks about many of the noble and great ones and in verse 23 it says that they were souls that Christ would use as his rulers-don't know what that means it today's Church! haha! then it says in verse 24 it talks about Christ creating an earth and we will go down. So my question is that "many" of these noble and great ones doesn't mean all of them-so who else is a noble and great one that is somehow doing something else and what does that all mean?and yes, I realize this is like my 293 question this week!Verse 23 refers to all of the "noble and great ones". Ultimately, all of those who sided with the Savior and rejected Satan, and thus were chosen to experience their "second estate," were "noble and great," otherwise they wouldn't be here. But some, like Abraham, were nobler and greater than others.As to who the "noble and great ones" are in today's Church, it is explained in D&C 138:53 The Prophet Joseph Smith, and my father, Hyrum Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and other choice spirits who were reserved to come forth in the fulness of times to take part in laying the foundations of the great Latter-day work,54 Including the building of the temples and the performance of ordinances therein for the redemption of the dead, were also in the spirit world.55 I observed that they were also among the noble and great ones who were chosen in the beginning to be rulers in the Church of God.56 Even before they were born, they, with many others, received their first lessons in the world of spirits and were prepared to come forth in the due time of the Lord to labor in his vineyard for the salvation of the souls of men. Edited January 30, 2012 by zerinus
Robert F. Smith Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 In Abraham 3:22 it talks about many of the noble and great ones and in verse 23 it says that they were souls that Christ would use as his rulers-don't know what that means it today's Church! haha! then it says in verse 24 it talks about Christ creating an earth and we will go down. So my question is that "many" of these noble and great ones doesn't mean all of them-so who else is a noble and great one that is somehow doing something else and what does that all mean?and yes, I realize this is like my 293 question this week!Zerinus is right on the money here, but I would like to add that Abraham is speaking of "noble and great ones" in verse 22, while it is God the Father who is presumably speaking in 3:23, and it is Jesus who responds as the Son of Man in verse 27 -- all of that being part of the great Council in Heaven.One could say with certainty that Melchizedek and Abraham were among the noble & great ones, and one can surmise that they include many others at crucial times in history, including many intrepid biblical characters and various important leaders throughout history (certainly many of our Founding Fathers). There was also a very powerful Methodist missionary to the Far East early in the last century who I believe was a noble & great one: He is a distant relative of mine, and when I did his work in the temple I received a witness that he was one of them -- no doubt preparing the way for the LDS missionaries who are now bringing in a new harvest.There are several ancient Near Eastern terms which mean "noble" and "great one(s)," but I won't list them here unless you think that would be worthwhile. They are typically titles of gods, as well as of royal officials and priests.
Duncan Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 Thank you! Something interesting I thought was I lived with a missionary once back in the day and it said in his Patriarchal blessing that he knew or mingled with the noble and great, something like that anyways implying he knew them but wasn't one of them-I don't think it mattered to him as far as I know, he just mentioned it to me one day
The Nehor Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Pleased to meet you. I am one of them. I have more important things to do then rule like post on the internet.
Duncan Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 Pleased to meet you. I am one of them. I have more important things to do then rule like post on the internet. haha!
inquiringmind Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) In Abraham 3:22 it talks about many of the noble and great ones and in verse 23 it says that they were souls that Christ would use as his rulers-don't know what that means it today's Church! haha! then it says in verse 24 it talks about Christ creating an earth and we will go down. So my question is that "many" of these noble and great ones doesn't mean all of them-so who else is a noble and great one that is somehow doing something else and what does that all mean?and yes, I realize this is like my 293 question this week!Nobody seems to have answered your question here.I read the OP, and Abraham 3:22 before going to bed last night.I couldn't see the answer then, and I certainly don't see any here.If everything was made spiritually, before it was made physically, wouldn't ALL the noble and great ones have been among the intelligences that were organized before the world was?Even if some were organized LONG before this world was (perhaps before previous worlds were), and were in their exultation, wouldn't they have still been organized "before" the physical world Abraham is speaking of was created?Why does Abraham 3:22 say "Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones."Why "many," and "not all"?That was your question, wasn't it Duncan?It's giving me something of a headache right now, do you (or anyone else) have an answer? Edited January 30, 2012 by inquiringmind
Duncan Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 Nobody seems to have answered your question here.I read the OP, and Abraham 3:22 before going to bed last night.I couldn't see the answer then, and I certainly don't see any here.If everything was made spiritually, before it was made physically, wouldn't ALL the noble and great ones have been among the intelligences that were organized before the world was?Even if some were organized LONG before this world was (perhaps before previous worlds were), and were in their exultation, wouldn't they have still been organized "before" the physical world Abraham is speaking of was created?Why does Abraham 3:22 say "Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones."Why "many," and "not all"?That was your question, wasn't it Duncan?It's giving me something of a headache right now, do you (or anyone else) have an answer?for your headache or?! I am trying to find in my spare time some teachings on these verse and checking back here to see points of views- i welcome it all!
inquiringmind Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) for your headache or?To your question (and my headache.)I am trying to find in my spare time some teachings on these verse and checking back here to see points of views- i welcome it all! Thank you.You may welcome all points of view, but you must realize that the question you asked in the OP hasn't been answered yet.You asked the question here, and you've got me (and possibly others) thinking about it now.Please let us know what you come up with in your spare time.P.S. I know there are different ways of viewing "intelligences" (i.e. maybe they've always been plural, or maybe intelligence is organized into individual intelligences when we become spirit children), but I don't think that has anything to do with the question you raised concerning Abraham 3:22.If only "many" of the noble and great ones were among the organized intelligences that predate the physical creation, where were the others?Were they (could they have been) organized after the earth was created?That's how I understood your question Duncan, and I still can't see an answer, so please help me out when you can. Edited January 30, 2012 by inquiringmind
Jeff K. Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Every soul that has obtained a body classifies as a noble and great one. Some achieve no greatness by our eyes here (great leadership of some sort or another), others simply raise families families and may not see their influence come to a reality for generations. Others rise to greatness rapidly only to fall (David). Was he seeing only that point in time going to the future, the past already having occurred (sort of), or was he seeing only that which was pertinent to this world (nah, I dismiss this one too, though it could be), or was he seeing the net gain? So its the question of what he saw and what he meant from what he saw. Kind of light on detail.
inquiringmind Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Every soul that has obtained a body classifies as a noble and great one...But doesn't that only underline the problem?Whether or not "every soul that has obtained a body classifies as a noble and great one," wouldn't all the noble and great ones (and every soul that has obtained a body on earth) be among the intelligences that were organized before the world was?Why would Abraham (under inspiration) say that only "many" of them were there?How does that make any sense? Edited January 30, 2012 by inquiringmind
CV75 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) But doesn't that only underline the problem?Whether or not "every soul that has obtained a body classifies as a noble and great one," wouldn't all the noble and great ones (and every soul that has obtained a body on earth) be among the intelligences that were organized before the world was?Why would Abraham (under inspiration) say that only "many" of them were there?How does that make any sense?Paraphrasing verses 22-27: “among all these there were many of the noble and great ones [that have and are performing noble and great missions on the earth]… Abraham, thou art one of them [and are performing your mission upon the earth]… I will send the first [He who has yet to perform His mission on the earth, and also the rest of the other noble and great ones who have yet to perform their missions on the earth]”So "many" refers to the noble and great ones that Abraham could identify as having been on the earth already (Adam, Enoch, Noah, etc.). The others not inclued in this cohort of "many" would be Abraham and any contemporaries (also noble and great), and any noble and great ones (including the Christ), who would yet perform a work on the earth, after Abraham's lifetime. Edited January 30, 2012 by CV75
inquiringmind Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Paraphrasing verses 22-27: “among all these there were many of the noble and great ones [that have and are performing noble and great missions on the earth]… Abraham, thou art one of them [and are performing your mission upon the earth]… I will send the first [He who has yet to perform His mission on the earth, and also the rest of the other noble and great ones who have yet to perform their missions on the earth]”So "many" refers to the noble and great ones that Abraham could identify as having been on the earth already (Adam, Enoch, Noah, etc.). The others not inclued in this cohort of "many" would be Abraham and any contemporaries (also noble and great), and any noble and great ones (including the Christ), who would yet perform a work on the earth, after Abraham's lifetime.Thank you.
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