katherine the great Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) If a species controls its environment, what then becomes of evolution?Just out of curiosity, how does a species control it's environment? Being the smart animal that we are, we can certainly control some things, but in that domain I think we are destroying our environment much faster than we are preserving it. We cannot control natural forces such as earthquakes, weather patterns, volcanic activity, meteorite strikes, etc. These are the types of forces that eventually cause catastrophic changes in environment and often drive explosions in evolution. Edited January 15, 2012 by katherine the great
katherine the great Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 More than 20 years ago, I remember our stake presidency coming to speak in Sacrament meeting. One of the topics addressed was evolution.Gist of the message was that man did not evolve from a lower species. We may have any other opinion of the animals, but man did not evolve.Since man's body is part and parcel of who we are, this tells me that man's body did not evolve.I would be horrified if that were to happen in my Stake.
Flyonthewall Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 I would be horrified if that were to happen in my Stake.Horrified because you sincerely believe man evolved from a lower species? Because we are allowed to hold opinions about evolution and animals? Horrified about what exactly?
Jeff K. Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Just out of curiosity, how does a species control it's environment? Being the smart animal that we are, we can certainly control some things, but in that domain I think we are destroying our environment much faster than we are preserving it. We cannot control natural forces such as earthquakes, weather patterns, volcanic activity, meteorite strikes, etc. These are the types of forces that eventually cause catastrophic changes in environment and often drive explosions in evolution.I see us eventually controlling the environment of the earth. I do not see us controlling it now, but in a thousand or ten thousand years, yes, we can. Theories of terraforming other planets are already a part of science. Weather patterns I believe we will control, volcanic activity and other large scale phenomenon may also be controlled with the right measures. Meteor strikes are more a question of suprise than they are control. If we see it early enough that too can be controlled. If evolution is a process whose change is hardly measured over thousands of years, what if we are able to control the environment in a thousand years.
zerinus Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Wrong Z. Evolution is a change in allele frequencies from one generation to the next over time and can be observed. It is a fact.That is an element in the definition of Evolution. You are quoting it out of context. Evolution in Biology ultimately explains the origin of species. It explains how the various species originated or evolved from a universal common ancestor. If your definition of Evolution does not include "speciation," then it is dishonest, and it is not the theory of Evolution that everybody else, including the scientific community, understands it to be.
zerinus Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Ugh. Please do some research Z! Speciation is only a part of evolution. Evolution is change in gene frequencies.Evolution which does not result in speciation is not Evolution as everybody else in the scientific community understand it to be. Reinventing other people's ideas by word redefinition is not an honest preoccupation.
katherine the great Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Evolution which does not result in speciation is not Evolution as everybody else in the scientific community understand it to be. Reinventing other people's ideas by word redefinition is not an honest preoccupation.Evolution eventually will result in speciation or extinction, but species can remain stable for thousands, sometimes even millions of years. What is your background in science? Your posts reflect a lack of knowlege of the subject matter.
katherine the great Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Horrified because you sincerely believe man evolved from a lower species? Yes. Absolutely. Our bodies are the result of millions of years of evolution.
katherine the great Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 That is an element in the definition of Evolution. You are quoting it out of context. Evolution in Biology ultimately explains the origin of species. It explains how the various species originated or evolved from a universal common ancestor. If your definition of Evolution does not include "speciation," then it is dishonest, and it is not the theory of Evolution that everybody else, including the scientific community, understands it to be.I am doing post graduate studies in physical anthropology. I'm pretty up to date on what the scientific community understands evolution to be. I'm not at all sure that you do though.
katherine the great Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 I see us eventually controlling the environment of the earth. I do not see us controlling it now, but in a thousand or ten thousand years, yes, we can. Theories of terraforming other planets are already a part of science. Weather patterns I believe we will control, volcanic activity and other large scale phenomenon may also be controlled with the right measures. Meteor strikes are more a question of suprise than they are control. If we see it early enough that too can be controlled. If evolution is a process whose change is hardly measured over thousands of years, what if we are able to control the environment in a thousand years. It's dangerous for man to try to play God.
Flyonthewall Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Yes. Absolutely. Our bodies are the result of millions of years of evolution.How about a message from the 1st presidency?“It is held by some that Adam was not the first man upon this earth, and that the original human being was a development from lower orders of the animal creation. These, however, are the theories of men. The word of the Lord declares that Adam was ‘the first man of all men’ (Moses 1:34), and we are therefore in duty bound to regard him as the primal parent of our race. It was shown to the brother of Jared that all men were created in the beginning after the image of God; and whether we take this to mean the spirit or the body, or both, it commits us to the same conclusion: Man began life as a human being, in the likeness of our heavenly Father.” (First Presidency [Joseph F. Smith, John R. Winder, Anthon H. Lund], in Clark, Messages of the First Presidency, 4:205.)To say that we received our bodies from other non-human life forms makes no sense to me in light of what has been taught.
thesometimesaint Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Oh the magical God idea. 7000 years ago God decided to say a couple of magical words and alakazam everything just as we see it today.I have posed this test many times before, and no one seems to willing to take me up on it.You want to disprove Evolution to scientists? It is easy to do. No special training beyond knowing how to read and write in detail what you see; No special tools beyond a shovel, a piece of paper, and a writing instrument. No special abilities beyond a strong back. Now go dig up a fully modern human skeleton in a previously undisturbed pre-cambrian layer of dirt.Go for it.
zerinus Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Evolution eventually will result in speciation or extinction, but species can remain stable for thousands, sometimes even millions of years. What is your background in science? Your posts reflect a lack of knowlege of the subject matter.I am doing post graduate studies in physical anthropology. I'm pretty up to date on what the scientific community understands evolution to be. I'm not at all sure that you do though.I don't care what you are studying. Appealing to your superior "education" when you are stuck for an answer is cheap and well known dodge. Does Evolution claim to explain the origin of species or doesn't it? If it does, what is your problem with my posts?
thesometimesaint Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Yes. Evolution does a very good job of explaining the origin of species.http://nationalacademies.org/evolution/
Jeff K. Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 It's dangerous for man to try to play God. Somebody has too.
katherine the great Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 How about a message from the 1st presidency?To say that we received our bodies from other non-human life forms makes no sense to me in light of what has been taught.To say that we didn't makes no sense to me in light of all of the physical evidence that's been gathered in the last twenty years.
katherine the great Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 I don't care what you are studying. Appealing to your superior "education" when you are stuck for an answer is cheap and well known dodge. Does Evolution claim to explain the origin of species or doesn't it? If it does, what is your problem with my posts?I'm not dodging anything. Evolution explains process not origin. 1
Jeff K. Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Oh the magical God idea. 7000 years ago God decided to say a couple of magical words and alakazam everything just as we see it today.I have posed this test many times before, and no one seems to willing to take me up on it.You want to disprove Evolution to scientists? It is easy to do. No special training beyond knowing how to read and write in detail what you see; No special tools beyond a shovel, a piece of paper, and a writing instrument. No special abilities beyond a strong back. Now go dig up a fully modern human skeleton in a previously undisturbed pre-cambrian layer of dirt.Go for it.Careful, turn that around and you won't find the missing link, at least not yet.
CV75 Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 I see us eventually controlling the environment of the earth.This is what I was trying to get at up in #165. Man in his original form, in the image of God, controls (or perhaps better put, self-regulates) his environment. Adam lost this capacity with the Fall.
altersteve Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Zerinus, you have yet to respond to what I said about the verse in Genesis about how God commanded the waters to bring forth life. This is what evolution says regarding the origin of life, that it began in the oceans. How do you interpret this verse if you don't think it refers to evolution?
CV75 Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Zerinus, you have yet to respond to what I said about the verse in Genesis about how God commanded the waters to bring forth life. This is what evolution says regarding the origin of life, that it began in the oceans. How do you interpret this verse if you don't think it refers to evolution?If He is "in all and through all things", the waters bringing forth life is more one of the roll-out phases of "self expression" than it is evolution.
zerinus Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 I'm not dodging anything. Evolution explains process not origin.Evolution explains the process by which species have (supposedly) originated.
thesometimesaint Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 JeffK.:I'm all for more knowledge. A God of the Gaps. Not so much.
katherine the great Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Evolution explains the process by which species have (supposedly) originated.It doesn't attempt to explain the origins of life.
Recommended Posts