Are You Worthy Of The Truth?

[CV75]

I have to disagree with you, CV. There are ugly truths.

I just watched a very ugly video on an abortion killing being done... very ugly.

It's very ugly when people justify killing for ugly reasons.

If I didn't think it was ugly, I would keep my mouth shut, but I won't because I do think it's ugly.

Jesus saw some ugly things too... & sometimes pointed them out... not to be a pain, but to help others think, feel & choose better - to be happier & to help make others around them happier. Jesus did not do it all for us, but taught us the way to heal ourselves & others. Our hands are his hands, right?

The examples you use are not ugly truths, they are ugly facts. I already described the difference, and it is more than semantics. Those who engage in them are not engaged in truth. Those who engage with Christ in eliminating these things are.

I don’t understand why you would disagree that all that which is ugly (spiritual, temporal and physical death of all types and degrees--facts we all deal with in this life) has been overcome by Jesus Christ.

[volgadon]

The parable of Jesus' birth... was preceded by the parable of Mary going into labor.

I bet she wishes it were merely a parable.

[HeatherAnn]

The examples you use are not ugly truths, they are ugly facts. I already described the difference, and it is more than semantics. Those who engage in them are not engaged in truth. Those who engage with Christ in eliminating these things are.

Denying ugly facts that our brothers & sisters are experiencing, is denying Christ... "Inasmuch as ye did it NOT to one of the least of these, ye did it NOT to me." - Matt 25:45

I don’t understand why you would disagree that all that which is ugly (spiritual, temporal and physical death of all types and degrees--facts we all deal with in this life) has been overcome by Jesus Christ.

CV,

Did Christ say, "Ignore the poor, don't worry about those suffering - just walk by, continue ignoring them because I've overcome it & you don't have to worry about it?"

If you think that, you have terribly misunderstood Christ's teachings.

Christ overcame the world - nothing could phase him from doing God's will... even death. He showed us the way, to not let anything phase us from doing God's will.

Christ's message is NOT: "Make me into your God. Neglect your spirituality & instead of exploring the kingdom of God within, use my human sacrifice as a scapegoat."

Christ's message is "Don't make me your God. Nurture your spirituality - the kingdom of God within & don't look externally for the kingdom of God (Luke 17:21)." He taught that as we love others, we are his disciples & we love God.

It's understandable to believe Jesus to take over for us... to depend on an external source... The scriptures that Christianity are based on have been warped to favor political powers, starting with Constatine.

Read that parable I posted previously, about the good samaritan again, for further understanding of what Jesus taught.

Edited December 3, 2011 by HeatherAnn

[Deborah]

HeatherAnn what is the point of this thread? To show how righteous you are compared to everyone else? That seems to be the theme of most of your statements. Just because others disagree with your interpretations doesn't mean they are any less righteous or "worthy of truth."

[volgadon]

The thread reminds me of this classic.

[Kenngo1969]

Reminds me of one of my favorite lawyer jokes. What's the difference between a carp and a lawyer? One's a scum-sucking, trash-eating, bottom-dwelling lower form of life ... and the other's a fish.

[HeatherAnn]

Deborah,

What is the point of any thread, of any post? Isn't it to express our own testimony? You don't post on here to express someone else's testimony, do you? Maybe you do.

If you reread my OP, I admited straight out that I often don't want to see the truth.

Yet, I'm realizing that it's important to see truth because it's how we best love others & ourselves.

I realize that we are incapable of understanding 100% objective TRUTH - only God (who is all-knowing) is.

For us, truth is in perspective. The more perspectives, the more truthful... or the better understanding we have of different possibilities of truth. Does that help explain why you, I & others post on this forum?

Edited December 3, 2011 by HeatherAnn

[HeatherAnn]

Although we're commanded to NOT have any gods before God, most "can't handle" that. Like children, we tend to resonate with concrete more than abstract. We also tend to prefer somebody to blame or rely on instead of taking respons-ability. We've made God in our own image... Actually chauvinistic males did. I think it doesn't matter too much what we call God - Jesus, Allah... UNLESS, we make our worship to be something less than GOoD.

To achieve our goal of lasting joy, our priority needs to be striving for what's best, which involves striving for truth, especially those truths that are most relevant to loving others as ourselves.

Edited December 3, 2011 by HeatherAnn

[Sleeper Cell]

Although we're commanded to NOT have any gods before God, most "can't handle" that. Like children, we tend to resonate with concrete more than abstract. We also tend to prefer somebody to blame or rely on instead of taking respons-ability. We've made God in our own image... Actually chauvinistic males did. I think it doesn't matter too much what we call God - Jesus, Allah... UNLESS, we make our worship to be something less than GOoD.

To achieve our goal of lasting joy, our priority needs to be striving for what's best, which involves striving for truth, especially those truths that are most relevant to loving others as ourselves.

Do you believe that your use of the derogatory phrase “chauvinistic males” is consistent with loving others as ourselves?

[CV75]

Denying ugly facts that our brothers & sisters are experiencing, is denying Christ... "Inasmuch as ye did it NOT to one of the least of these, ye did it NOT to me." - Matt 25:45

I agree with this, as it illustrates the difference between facts and truth. Facts present the problem, the truth presents the relief, and the truth is in Christ. We enjoy the truth only inasmuch as we are aligned with Him.

The reason that doing (or not doing) something to relieve others’ suffering translates into doing the same unto Christ is because He suffered and overcame all things for all of us. In providing relief to others, we participate in His overcoming all and thus honor Him. In denying relief we perpetuate the cause of His suffering and dishonor Him.

CV,

Did Christ say, "Ignore the poor, don't worry about those suffering - just walk by, continue ignoring them because I've overcome it & you don't have to worry about it?"

If you think that, you have terribly misunderstood Christ's teachings.

Christ overcame the world - nothing could phase him from doing God's will... even death. He showed us the way, to not let anything phase us from doing God's will.

Christ's message is NOT: "Make me into your God. Neglect your spirituality & instead of exploring the kingdom of God within, use my human sacrifice as a scapegoat."

Christ's message is "Don't make me your God. Nurture your spirituality - the kingdom of God within & don't look externally for the kingdom of God (Luke 17:21)." He taught that as we love others, we are his disciples & we love God.

It's understandable to believe Jesus to take over for us... to depend on an external source... The scriptures that Christianity are based on have been warped to favor political powers, starting with Constatine.

Read that parable I posted previously, about the good samaritan again, for further understanding of what Jesus taught.

I don’t understand how my statements translate into advocating that we ignore the poor, etc. or provoke the instruction in the rest of your post.

How does making Christ our God translate into neglecting spirituality? He actually is the source of our spirituality, in concert with the Father and the Holy Ghost. In many scriptures he is referred to as God.

The scapegoat was a type for what Christ did in His infinite and eternal sacrifice, so it really is incumbent upon us to “use” His atonement as He commanded.

I’ll refer you to the JST for the meaning of Luke 17:21, but I’m not sure it means what you’ve indicated even without Joseph Smith’s insight.

With these things in mind, the rest of the post is a bit confusing (Jesus taking over, politics).

Is this heading in the same direction as other threads that were closed on this topic?

[HeatherAnn]

Do you believe that your use of the derogatory phrase “chauvinistic males” is consistent with loving others as ourselves?

Yes, I do. I believe God is both Heavenly Father & Heavenly Mother. Yet, Heavenly Mother is rarely mentioned & it goes along with how some men treat women (not all, but some) who adhere by lds traditions. Consider God as being our CREATOR... Now consider how you were CREATED... by both a mother & father. Who was the most creative, the most nurturing & life sustaining of the 2? Mom. We are commanded ot honor our mother & father... & even above that to LOVE God with all our being. God is not just Father, but also Mother.

[ERayR]

Getting back to your OP. What is your solution to the starving children problem?

[HeatherAnn]

I agree with this, as it illustrates the difference between facts and truth. Facts present the problem, the truth presents the relief, and the truth is in Christ. We enjoy the truth only inasmuch as we are aligned with Him.

The reason that doing (or not doing) something to relieve others’ suffering translates into doing the same unto Christ is because He suffered and overcame all things for all of us. In providing relief to others, we participate in His overcoming all and thus honor Him. In denying relief we perpetuate the cause of His suffering and dishonor Him...

I don’t understand how my statements translate into advocating that we ignore the poor, etc. or provoke the instruction in the rest of your post.

It seems like we both agree that as we love others, we love God/Christ.

So, it could've been a misunderstanding.

Previously, you wrote...

CV: I don’t understand why you would disagree that all that which is ugly (spiritual, temporal and physical death of all types and degrees--facts we all deal with in this life) has been overcome by Jesus Christ.

Believing that all physical, spiritual, temporal death of all types & degrees (which implies the suffering leading up to death) is Jesus' job gets us off the hook superficially, but not in truth.

Christ did not overcome all of these ugly facts that are present now (ie 42,000,000 abortion killings each year, almost 1,000,000,000 starving, & other harmful facts/issues)... we have the responsibility to!

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." – Edmund Burke

How does making Christ our God translate into neglecting spirituality?

Our top priority commandment given is to love God with our all - & to love others & love ourselves.

We're also commanded to not have any other gods before God.

God is Love..."He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." -1John 4:8

If God is love... & all knowing, all powerful - why would God require an innocent human life to be sacrificed?

Isn't human sacrifice an evil practice from centuries ago? Why still believe in it?

I realize it's comforting to believe somebody would love you enough to die for you... but does that make sense?

How could he die for you... & what is he saving you from exactly?

Because we don't know all, as God, we can't help but pick & choose stories, not just in religion, but in every day life.

Pretend you never heard of Christianity... If it is true, it will stand, no matter what. As Joseph Smith taught, truth will carve itself.

Would it make sense, & be beneficial to your spiritual development & the well-being of others to believe that someone will save you from your thoughts, & will save us & others from suffering - when suffering continues?

Or would it be more beneficial to your spiritual development & the well-being of others to believe that you are responsible for your thoughts (& related feelings & behavior) & that you can make help aleve suffering of yourself & others?

I’ll refer you to the JST for the meaning of Luke 17:21, but I’m not sure it means what you’ve indicated even without Joseph Smith’s insight.

Didn't Joseph Smith teach us about personal revelation... in fact he wrote about scriptures..."There are many things contained therein that are true, & that are not true... Therefore whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth; & whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit there-from." -D&C 91:1,2,4-5

We are not to be commanded in all things... but to be wise... to study it out in our minds & pray about it... to find truth.

Considering the contraversial history (& corruption) of biblical canon, we especially need to do study & pray about scriptures.

CV, think about it. Do you feel the spirit in the tree outside, do you feel the spirit in a building? Of course not! The ONLY way YOU can FEEL the spirit of God, is within you. See?

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them & said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." -Luke 17:20-21

CV, Ever since I was young, I couldn't just accept things. I realize I'm a bit of a rebel. I just feel a drive to understand things deeply... I wanted to know if the church was true... not guess, or rely on what others told me, but to know. I visited lot of other religious services & had beautiful spiritual experiences that made me realize that Mormonism doesn't have a monoopoly on God & truth. Still, I felt good in our church... I grew up with it & resonated with it more than any other & still do, which is why I still go. Yet, I still couldn't settle for illogical answers, like in Sundayschool, the teacher explained how Jesus came in the meridian of time. I asked, "How could that be, since he came 2,000 years ago - according to lds chronology time...at least 4,000 years after Adam & Eve. And if we're living in the "last days" then if he came in the meridian of time he should have come earlier than he did. Then I realized meridian can mean the most significant even in a story... like the climax. One light bulb moment... & many more since then. The scriptures are filled with beautiful messages... when we're ready to see them, we will... "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little."

Edited December 3, 2011 by HeatherAnn

[HeatherAnn]

Getting back to your OP. What is your solution to the starving children problem?

The solution is within each of us, not just me.

Study it out & pray... & you'll know.

[ERayR]

The solution is within each of us, not just me.

Study it out & pray... & you'll know.

That is a non-answer. Nothing but platitude. You come on berating (Did Christ say, "Ignore the poor, don't worry about those suffering - just walk by, continue ignoring them because I've overcome it & you don't have to worry about it?" If you think that, you have terribly misunderstood Christ's teachings.) for ignoring the poor. Now you have our attention what is your solution?

[erichard]

...

Yet, Christ, was the "annointed one" after "descending below all things." The only way we can reach out to love EVERYONE, is to consider where they're coming from - even if it's hell.

...

Hi HeatherAnn,

I agree that we often have to experience something to completely understand it.

This world is a "reality therapy" lesson for understanding much better the "eternal truths" about our universe. As spirits in a place governed by God I do not believe we could learn many cold truths like we can here.

That is also why I continue to accept the revelation that the Holy Ghost is the ghost of Adam-- who lived on a previous earth and gained enough experience with earth life and its problems that He could act as the Spirit of truth, Holy spirit of promise to seal all covenants, and as the Comforter for us his spirit children.

Zion and its laws is the real answer to all the world problems, including starving children. We need to continue to pray, "thy Kingdom come."

Idealistically, God could create a world out of nothing that was full of all the good things God wants. The reason the world is the way it is is that God did not create it out of nothing. The struggle between Good and Evil is real. God really is trying to persuade men to accept Christ and His government. And until there are enough people ready, Zion and its laws cannot be set up. And in the mean time we all suffer and learn.

But here we can even make serious mistakes, repent from them, and actually be better off for having made them.

Richard

[CV75]

It seems like we both agree that as we love others, we love God/Christ.

Believing that all physical, spiritual, temporal death of all types & degrees (which implies the suffering leading up to death) is Jesus' job gets us off the hook superficially, but not in truth.

Christ did not overcome all of these ugly facts that are present now (ie 42,000,000 abortion killings each year, almost 1,000,000,000 starving, & other harmful facts/issues)... we have the responsibility to!

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." – Edmund Burke

He did overcome these things. They will be resurrected and inherit a glory, their tears dried, and perfect justice and mercy rendered them, no matter how little we do to eliminate sin and suffering. We follow Christ, emulate Him and become like Him by doing all we can to eliminate such things wherever we can, in faith, hope and charity.

Maybe we’re saying the same thing, but for some reason some of the ancillary things you have added (a few of which I commented on already) seem to throw things off.

Our top priority commandment given is to love God with our all - & to love others & love ourselves.

We're also commanded to not have any other gods before God.

God is Love..."He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." -1John 4:8

If God is love... & all knowing, all powerful - why would God require an innocent human life to be sacrificed?

Isn't human sacrifice an evil practice from centuries ago? Why still believe in it?

I realize it's comforting to believe somebody would love you enough to die for you... but does that make sense?

How could he die for you... & what is he saving you from exactly?

God’s allowance of evil is a big topic and the LDS Church addresses this quite thoroughly. He loved us enough to sacrifice His innocent life to save us from physical and spiritual death (death being separation from God). This merits our devotion. Accepting this is all we could ever count on to become like Him. Otherwise, we would not have been eligible to be born into mortality since there was no other way to be spiritually and physically alive (with God) forever.

Because we don't know all, as God, we can't help but pick & choose stories, not just in religion, but in every day life.

Pretend you never heard of Christianity... If it is true, it will stand, no matter what. As Joseph Smith taught, truth will carve itself.

Would it make sense, & be beneficial to your spiritual development & the well-being of others to believe that someone will save you from your thoughts, & will save us & others from suffering - when suffering continues?

Or would it be more beneficial to your spiritual development & the well-being of others to believe that you are responsible for your thoughts (& related feelings & behavior) & that you can make help aleve suffering of yourself & others?

It is beneficial to believe 1) that God shows us the way and 2) that we follow it. Christ has saved us from our thoughts, and will save us and others from suffering—even when suffering continues throughout this life—because the fulfillment of salvation is in the resurrection and exaltation. At the same time, this principle is evidenced by people of faith taking responsibility for their thoughts, feelings and behavior now, by joining Christ to alleviate our and others’ suffering. You seem to be saying that we can view the world only one way or the other, and your use of Luke 17:21 does not help this argument.

Didn't Joseph Smith teach us about personal revelation... in fact he wrote about scriptures..."There are many things contained therein that are true, & that are not true... Therefore whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth; & whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit there-from." -D&C 91:1,2,4-5

We are not to be commanded in all things... but to be wise... to study it out in our minds & pray about it... to find truth.

Considering the contraversial history (& corruption) of biblical canon, we especially need to do study & pray about scriptures.

CV, think about it. Do you feel the spirit in the tree outside, do you feel the spirit in a building? Of course not! The ONLY way YOU can FEEL the spirit of God, is within you. See?

I do feel both the Light of Christ and the Spirit in a tree or a building (Alma 30:41, 44).

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them & said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." -Luke 17:20-21

Luke 17:21 means that Jesus was the very Kingdom the Pharisees were waiting for, but they would not recognize or receive Him. It does not mean that they, within themselves, had the keys to salvation independent of the Christ. All we do have that is truly our own is our agency, and we render that to God by keeping our covenants and behaving as He commands.

CV, Ever since I was young, I couldn't just accept things. I realize I'm a bit of a rebel. I just feel a drive to understand things deeply... I wanted to know if the church was true... not guess, or rely on what others told me, but to know. I visited lot of other religious services & had beautiful spiritual experiences that made me realize that Mormonism doesn't have a monoopoly on God & truth. Still, I felt good in our church... I grew up with it & resonated with it more than any other & still do, which is why I still go. Yet, I still couldn't settle for illogical answers, like in Sundayschool, the teacher explained how Jesus came in the meridian of time. I asked, "How could that be, since he came 2,000 years ago - according to lds chronology time...at least 4,000 years after Adam & Eve. And if we're living in the "last days" then if he came in the meridian of time he should have come earlier than he did. Then I realized meridian can mean the most significant even in a story... like the climax. One light bulb moment... & many more since then. The scriptures are filled with beautiful messages... when we're ready to see them, we will... "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little."

I agree that Mormonism doesn’t have a monopoly on the truth. Its role is far greater and essential to our salvation that having a monopoly (God wants to share all that He has). Anyone can help the poor and needy out of any degree of pure love and intent that they possess—which comes from Christ in the first place—and Christ will be honored by those who do that within or without His Church. He is additionally honored by adherence to the many other truths He has revealed uniquely through the LDS Church, which truths tie directly to the spiritual power necessary to help others even more effectively, more than any other person or group could accomplish without the Church.

[frankenstein]

If the Gospel were easy do you think finding / keeping converts would be hard?

The gospel is easy! Jesus said so himself.

See Matthew 11:30

Edited December 3, 2011 by frankenstein

[volgadon]

What is the point of any thread, of any post? Isn't it to express our own testimony?

No, the point is to discuss something.

[volgadon]

If God is love... & all knowing, all powerful - why would God require an innocent human life to be sacrificed?

In the immortal words of Bagheera: Greater love...

Edited December 4, 2011 by volgadon

[volgadon]

Love isn't about feeling warm and fuzzy and la-la-la all the time. Love motivates to act, yes, even in a hell on earth. Love isn't always pretty or happy-happy-feel-like-dancing. This is from Eliach's "Hasidic Tales of the Holocaust."

“I will tell you another story,” said Rabbi Israel Spira to his student Baruch Bear Singer, “a story that took place in the Janowska Road Camp. Janowska was one of those camps about which, if one is to recall the events that took place during one year, one can fill pages with tales of heroism, suffering, and death. Not one book, but ten volumes. And even then, it would just be a drop in the ocean.

“Many have asked me to publish the stories of Janowska in a book. I told them I am not writing new books. It would be sufficient if we read and studied the existing books. But this particular story is a duty to record. It is a mitzvah to tell it, for it is a tale about the devotion and sacrifice o a daughter of Israel.

“One morning in Janowska, I was standing and sawing wood with another katzetnik (camp inmate). To humiliate us as much as possible, I was given as a partner a very short mane. As you see, thank God, I am not among the short ones. It made the wood sawing both a difficult task and a laughable sight. With each pull of the saw, my partner would stretch out and stand on the tips of his toes, and I wold bend down till my aching, swollen feet were bleeding. And the Germans stood by and watched our misery and suffering with delight.

“One morning, on Hoashana Rabba, as wee were sawing wood, the wind carried in our direction piercing, tormented cries such as I had never heard before, even in Janowska hell. The desperate clamor was coming closer and closer as if the weeping was filling up the entire universe and drowning it with painful tears.

” ‘ It is a children’s Aktion, little angels from the entire vicinity of Drohobycz, Borislov, Lvov, Stryj, Stanislav, and others were brought here to meet their maker.’ ” said a ktzetnik who passed by, pushing a wheelbarrow, without even glancing in our direction. I though the cries would shake the world’s foundation. We continued sawing the wood as our eyes became heavier and heavier with tears.

“Suddenly, just next to us, I heard the voice of a woman. ‘ Jews have mercy upon me and give me a knife.’ In front of us was standing a woman, pale as a sheet. Only her eyes were burning with a strange fire. I thought that she wanted to commit suicide. I looked around, and since I saw no German in sight I said to her, ‘Why are you in such a rush to get to the World of Truth? We will get there sooner or later. What difference can a day make?’

” ‘ Dog, what do you say to that woman?’ A tall young German who appeared from nowhere demanded an answer, while swinging his rubber truncheon above my head. ‘The woman asked for a knife. I explained to her that we Jews are not permitted to take our lives. For our lives are entrusted in the hands of God.’ I hastily added, ‘And I hope that you, too, will spare our lives.’ The German did not respond to my words. He turned to the woman and demanded an explanation from her. She answered curtly, ‘I asked for a knife.’

“As she was talking she kept examining the German with her feverish eyes. Suddenly her eyes stopped wandering. Her gaze was fixed on the top pocket of the German’s uniform. The shape of a knife was clearly visible through the pocket. ‘Give me that pocket knife!’ she ordered the German in a commanding voice. The German, taken by surprise, handed the knife to the woman.

“She bent down and picked up something. Only then did I notice a bundle of rags on the ground near the sawdust. She unwrapped the bundle. Amidst the rags on a snow white pillow was a newborn babe, asleep. With a steady hand she opened the pocket knife and circumcised the baby. In a clear, intense voice shoe recited the blessing of the circumcision. ‘Blessed art Thou, O Lord our God, King of the Universe, who has sanctified us by thy commandments and has commanded us to perform the circumcision.’

“She straightened her back, looked up to the heavens, and said, ‘God of the Universe, you have given me a healthy child. I am returning to you a wholesome, kosher Jew.’ She walked over to the German, gave him back his blood-stained knife, and handed him her baby on his snow white pillow.

“Amidst a veil of tears, I said to myself that this mother’s circumcision will probably shake the foundations of heaven and earth. Next to Abraham on Mount Moriah, where can you find a greater act of faith this this Jewish mother’s?”

The rabbi looked at his student with tear-filled eyes and said, “Since liberation, each time I am honored at a circumcision to be a Sandak, it is my custom to tell this particular story.”

Based on a conversation of the Grand Rabbi of Bluzhov, Rabbi Israel Spira, with Baruch Singer, January 3, 1975. I [Yaffa Eliach] heard it at the rabbi’s house.

[bluebell]

The gospel is easy! Jesus said so himself.

See Matthew 11:30

He didn't say it was easy so much as easier than the alternative.

[Sleeper Cell]

Yes, I do. [believe that … use of the derogatory phrase “chauvinistic males” is consistent with loving others as ourselves]. I believe God is both Heavenly Father & Heavenly Mother. Yet, Heavenly Mother is rarely mentioned & it goes along with how some men treat women (not all, but some) who adhere by lds traditions. Consider God as being our CREATOR... Now consider how you were CREATED... by both a mother & father. Who was the most creative, the most nurturing & life sustaining of the 2? Mom. We are commanded ot honor our mother & father... & even above that to LOVE God with all our being. God is not just Father, but also Mother.

If you believe that name-calling is consistent with loving your neighbor, you and I have radically different understandings of the meaning of love.

In my experience, name calling “goes along” much more with mistreating people than does how much one talks about a Heavenly Mother.

[frankenstein]

He didn't say it was easy so much as easier than the alternative.

What do you mean?

[Minos]

Deborah,

What is the point of any thread, of any post? Isn't it to express our own testimony? You don't post on here to express someone else's testimony, do you? Maybe you do.

If you reread my OP, I admited straight out that I often don't want to see the truth.

Yet, I'm realizing that it's important to see truth because it's how we best love others & ourselves.

I realize that we are incapable of understanding 100% objective TRUTH - only God (who is all-knowing) is.

For us, truth is in perspective. The more perspectives, the more truthful... or the better understanding we have of different possibilities of truth. Does that help explain why you, I & others post on this forum?

You need to read the board guidelines and show some respect for them if expect to stay on this board much longer.

Proselyting or "witnessing" from either side. Preaching doesn't create a discussion. It is one sided.