Seer Stones, Olive Oil, And Flying Feathers.

[David T]

By the way, I think this link and accompanying video are absolutely relevant and fascinating:

Scientists Reconstruct Brains' visions into digital video in historic experiment

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Hah, I was actually going to start a thread based on that. Awesome stuff, so many possibilities.

[mfbukowski]

What's the difference? Seriously. If I were to answer: the priesthood, how would it effectively be any different from answering: the oil?

But you didn't answer any of the questions I posed. Did the brother of Jared really move a mountain?

What's the difference? If I were to answer "yes" would it really be any different from answering "no"?

The answer is unknowable and irrelevant, objectively speaking.

The only answer that matters is what the spirit tells you.

[CV75]

From a spiritual sense, is the use of olive oil really much different than the use of seer stone? While one is for healing and the other is for revelation, are they not both just physical appliances for a spiritual purpose? And when the rubber hits the road, don't we view both as optional for the purpose?

This makes me think about the human body also being a physical appliance for a spiritual purpose, and in this way it is not much different than consecrated oil, a seer stone, the Book of Mormon, temples, etc. This may explain why there is so much variation in life spans, e.g. different people needing different time/experience with a mortal body. It might also explain why or how the human body is used as an appliance for healing and revelation itself (both mundane and miraculous), Jesus of course being the perfect example of such.

It is unique in that the human body is not optional for the purpose of immortality and eternal life. The seer stone, the oil, and the body are all consecrated (or dedicated to the Lord and made holy), ultimately for this same purpose, and while there may be wide variation in the kind and reliance upon of any of these appliances, we really can’t say we don’t have a use for the body.

I find it interesting that while we won’t need a temple in the celestial kingdom (Rev 21:22), we’ll still need a stone (D&C 130:10-11).

[CV75]

Perhaps a similar question. If a person receives a blessings where the Elders use consecrated oil and the person is miraculously healed, was the cause the Priesthood or the oil?

The Priesthood whose user has sufficient humility to use the oil when he has it available, or makes a reasonable effort to obtain it (and a companion) when he doesn't. And of course we need to consider the faith of the patient and God's will.

Edited September 26, 2011 by CV75

[LeSellers]

If a person receives a blessings where the Elders use consecrated oil and the person is miraculously healed, was the cause the Priesthood or the oil?

I believe this is a false dichotomy.

It is both the Priesthood and the oil. CV75 said it is the humility of the Priesthood holder who does his best to meet all the requisite conditions, and I'm in general agreements with that. However, I believe there is more to it.

The Priesthood is the controling power of the universe. It is that through which God commisioned His Son to create the heaven and the earth, and it is the Priesthood that Christ used to accopmlish that first miracle. It stands to reason, then, that Priesthood can (when all the conditions are right, not least is that it be God's will) a person can be healed.

The oil we use represents light and the Holy Ghost. We see this in, for instance, the parable of the Ten Virgins. And see John A. Tvednes, http://maxwellinstit...124&chapid=1482 "Olive Oil: Symbol of the Holy Ghost".

In both scripture and early Christian tradition, olive oil is symbolic of the Holy Ghost. This is because the Holy Ghost provides spiritual nourishment, enlightenment, and comfort, just as olive oil in the ancient Near East was used for food, light, and anointing. …

Oil lamps are among the most frequently found items in archaeological excavations. The earliest were made from a round, flat piece of clay pinched up to form a bowl with one or more spouts. By the time of Christ, the bowl became nearly completely enclosed, with a hole on the top for adding oil and an extended spout. This was the kind of oil lamp used by the ten virgins in Christ's parable. The top of the lamp, between the hole for the oil and the spout, was often decorated with a seven-branched representation of the tree of life. In the tabernacle of Moses and later in the temple at Jerusalem, the tree of life was symbolized by a seven-branched lampstand, the menorah of Judaism, described in Exodus 24:2 and 25.

…

Because it provided nourishment, light, and physical comfort, it is little wonder that olive oil came to be a symbol of life and of the spirit which gives life. But there are other reasons for which olive oil came to have symbolic meaning. The olive tree lives for centuries rather than decades and, as a consequence, is a fit symbol for eternal life.⁷ Moreover, its oil keeps for a long period of time.

The pseudepigraphic Apocalypse of Sedrach 8:2 says that the Lord preferred the olive among the trees and the vine among fruit-bearing plants. According to 3 Baruch 4:6–13, Michael planted the olive tree, while Satan planted the vine in the garden of Eden and other angels planted other trees. The vine, by this account, was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But, in response to Noah's prayer, God changed it to good, noting that "its fruit will become the blood of God."

In some early traditions, the olive tree is identified with the tree of life of Genesis 2:9 and 3:22. Adam, on his deathbed, is said to have asked Eve and Seth to entreat God to send his angel into Paradise to give them a little of "the oil of life" from "the tree of his mercy" with which to anoint himself in preparation for death. Though they followed his instructions, the Lord told them that they could not take the oil "except in the last days."

It is by the power of the Holy Ghost that we exercise the Priesthood. It is not our Priesthood, and will not be until and unless we are exhalted with our wives. We have nothing more than delgated authority at present. We use His Priesthood until that time. So it is imperative that we use it in accordance with His wishes.

Healigns can be accompoished in other ways, and no one doubts that in the least. However, when the Priesthood and the oil are combined, as we have been commanded, the effect is far greater thanin any other way.

Lehi

Edited September 27, 2011 by LeSellers

[Rivers]

We may be cool about Joseph Smith's seer stones and similar magical artifacts of the early Saints and play them down as something of minor importance, but what would happen if President Monson would announce having received a revelation through a seer stone? Or if Elder Eyring announced he had been receiving inspiration through his cane?

Can anyone here honestly say that they would not be very uneasy? That they wouldn't dread the thought of this hitting the media? Can you picture yourself explaining to your neighbours or co-workers that this is not superstition but simply the application of random focusing devices (or whatever euphemism the apologists come up with)?

That would be very strange since President Monson and Elder Eyring didn't grow up in a culture in which they were exposed to those sorts of things.