Is The Veil Drawn Gradually?

[LDSToronto]

If this were so would you not remember him as JEHOVAH?

A most excellent point.

H.

[LDSToronto]

They wave their arms and talk gibberish in response to something they see.

Assuming this is a fact, is it possible that the thing a baby sees is a blank wall or some other bland and pedestrian object in the physical world, and not a supernatural entity?

H.

[LDSToronto]

Well gosh, I really hope I can sleep tonight knowing that an anonymous person on an internet discussion board doesn't believe me.

Please.

Are you comforted when anonymous people on the internet agree with stories that you've been told?

H.

[blackstrap]

I just watched a fun video on you tube that has a bit of a connection with this thread. Search for "twin boys conversation" The noise they are making seems to have no connection to the ideas they are sharing.

[jo1952]

If this were so would you not remember him as JEHOVAH?

No. In our pre-mortal life I have no reason to doubt that we are informed, prior to our imminent earthly birth, which family or circumstances we will be born into. As such, I could easily imagine we would also be aware of the pictures being used to be representative of Christ (because we would have already seen them before we got here), as well as being familiar with the language spoken at our upcoming destination. So, I suppose a baby might call Him Jehovah if that is the name used by the family/circumstances he is born into. Also, inasmuch as we, who are now living in our second estate, do not know what Jesus' true name is, OR the general language that is spoken in Heaven, who is to say that a baby's "gibberish", staring, smiling, and pointing at what we see as empty space is NOT the baby still being able to communicate with Heaven before the veil of rememberance is fully closed?

Regards,

jo

[LDSToronto]

No. In our pre-mortal life I have no reason to doubt that we are informed, prior to our imminent earthly birth, which family or circumstances we will be born into. As such, I could easily imagine we would also be aware of the pictures being used to be representative of Christ (because we would have already seen them before we got here), as well as being familiar with the language spoken at our upcoming destination. So, I suppose a baby might call Him Jehovah if that is the name used by the family/circumstances he is born into. Also, inasmuch as we, who are now living in our second estate, do not know what Jesus' true name is, OR the general language that is spoken in Heaven, who is to say that a baby's "gibberish", staring, smiling, and pointing at what we see as empty space is NOT the baby still being able to communicate with Heaven before the veil of rememberance is fully closed?

Babies speak the pure Adamic tongue - it all makes sense now! Disregard all of my earlier remarks!

H.

[jo1952]

Babies speak the pure Adamic tongue - it all makes sense now! Disregard all of my earlier remarks!

H.

Wow! How do YOU know that the language of Heaven is pure Adamic??? I'm very impressed!!

Regards,

jo

[LDSToronto]

Wow! How do YOU know that the language of Heaven is pure Adamic??? I'm very impressed!!

I know the same way that everyone here knows that baby's and dying people see beyond the veil.

H.

[altersteve]

I know the same way that everyone here knows that baby's and dying people see beyond the veil.

H.

You mean by personal revelation?

Please, stop mocking.

[LDSToronto]

You mean by personal revelation?

Please, stop mocking.

I am not mocking. Can I not receive personal revelation about heavenly matters, similar to the way others have received it? I have a strong feeling that, if babies can see beyond the veil and understand celestial beings, then those babies must be conversant in the Adamic language.

H.

You have been asked to stop. Stop.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Minos

[Facsimile 3]

I ask this because I often hear stories about how babies who have only been alive for mere months recognize images of Christ. For example, I started talking at age 9 months, and my first words were "Hi Jesus" at a small statue of the Savior in the living room of the apartment I lived in at the time. I also hear stories of babies sometimes becoming very calm and smiling when you talk to them about God and heaven, even though they probably don't understand a word you're saying. I have also heard some express their belief that babies can see angels, which is why you sometimes see them staring and smiling at what appears to be nothing.

This has led me to believe that Heavenly Father draws the veil over our minds very gradually, and that babies can remember heaven and know Christ when they see Him. What do you think?

I think babies, like the rest of us, recognize the Spirit of God (the Comforter), and that's it.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Facsimile 3

[LDSToronto]

I am not mocking. Can I not receive personal revelation about heavenly matters, similar to the way others have received it? I have a strong feeling that, if babies can see beyond the veil and understand celestial beings, then those babies must be conversant in the Adamic language.

H.

You have been asked to stop. Stop.

I was asked to stop mocking. I am not mocking. As mentioned before, there are two options for posters who want to have conversations without debate: The Social Hall and Focused Discussions. Or, have board rules changed? As soon as someone declares that another poster is behaving in a way they don't like they get the full power of the mods on their side?

H.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

No. In our pre-mortal life I have no reason to doubt that we are informed, prior to our imminent earthly birth, which family or circumstances we will be born into.

I was not making fun, just pointing out a doctrinal issue.

Exodus 6: 2-3

2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[altersteve]

I was asked to stop mocking. I am not mocking. As mentioned before, there are two options for posters who want to have conversations without debate: The Social Hall and Focused Discussions. Or, have board rules changed? As soon as someone declares that another poster is behaving in a way they don't like they get the full power of the mods on their side?

H.

You seem to have made it clear that you don't believe babies can see beyond the veil. And now you claim, again rather mockingly from our perspective, that you have received personal revelation that they understand "Adamic language." There is not a good chance anyone will think you're being sincere.

[LDSToronto]

You seem to have made it clear that you don't believe babies can see beyond the veil. And now you claim, again rather mockingly from our perspective, that you have received personal revelation that they understand "Adamic language." There is not a good chance anyone will think you're being sincere.

I'd like to point out, altersteve, that you opened the door for personal revelation. When I speculated about babies speaking the Adamic language, I said I knew that by the same means that other posters in this thread knew that babies could see past the veil. You then said, "You mean by personal revelation?"

If someone can receive personal revelation that states that babies can see beyond the veil, an idea that has absolutely no doctrinal backing and sounds utterly ridiculous to most people, and if that idea is easily accepted by the majority of posters on this thread, I ask you this, altersteve: How is it a mockery for me to claim that I have received personal revelation that states babies speak the Adamic language in order to converse with spirits beyond the veil? If anything, the revelation I've received supports claims of babies seeing beyond the veil and makes the position stronger.

In other words, how can you call my revelation a mockery while claiming that similar revelations are sincere?

Like I said, if you wanted a polite discussion free of dissent, the Social Hall is where this chat should be. If you want to control the content of the thread, Focused Discussions is where this chat should be. But to call foul on my participation in the General forum shows that you never really intended to have your views challenged, both within the light of LDS doctrine and within the light of general scrutiny.

H.

[bu11fr0g]

I sometimes talk in my sleep, but I am not having a vision.

I sometimes talk to myself when I am angry.

I sometimes talk to a friend that is in a different place, even though I know they aren't there.

I sometimes talk when the person I think I am talking to has wandered off.

I sometimes talk to prepare for a conservation I will be having.

I sometimes talk without thinking when I bang my finger.

I sometimes talk with marginal thinking to someone who cut me off an has driven off.

I sometimes talk to reiterate exactly how a conversation went before.

I sometimes talk to try to figure out the exact way to word a conversation for the future.

Based on research, the last two of these is the most analogous to what babies do. To claim that it is the veil, then we are stuck saying that the veil is very thin for monkeys as well or that what this is very different between man and monkey.

[bu11fr0g]

I sometimes talk in my sleep, but I am not having a vision.

I sometimes talk to myself when I am angry.

I sometimes talk to a friend that is in a different place, even though I know they aren't there.

I sometimes talk when the person I think I am talking to has wandered off.

I sometimes talk to prepare for a conservation I will be having.

I sometimes talk without thinking when I bang my finger.

I sometimes talk with marginal thinking to someone who cut me off an has driven off.

I sometimes talk to reiterate exactly how a conversation went before.

I sometimes talk to try to figure out the exact way to word a conversation for the future.

Based on research, the last two of these is the most analogous to what babies do. To claim that it is the veil, then we are stuck saying that the veil is very thin for monkeys as well or that what this is very different between man and monkey.

and to further point to this as developmental rather than experiential, why is there no difference in gestational age (age from conception as opposed to age from birth) in these events for a child that was born 3 months premature? and why do children with neurologic delays have delayed onset of these events?

[jo1952]

I'd like to point out, altersteve, that you opened the door for personal revelation. When I speculated about babies speaking the Adamic language, I said I knew that by the same means that other posters in this thread knew that babies could see past the veil. You then said, "You mean by personal revelation?"

If someone can receive personal revelation that states that babies can see beyond the veil, an idea that has absolutely no doctrinal backing and sounds utterly ridiculous to most people, and if that idea is easily accepted by the majority of posters on this thread, I ask you this, altersteve: How is it a mockery for me to claim that I have received personal revelation that states babies speak the Adamic language in order to converse with spirits beyond the veil? If anything, the revelation I've received supports claims of babies seeing beyond the veil and makes the position stronger.

In other words, how can you call my revelation a mockery while claiming that similar revelations are sincere?

Like I said, if you wanted a polite discussion free of dissent, the Social Hall is where this chat should be. If you want to control the content of the thread, Focused Discussions is where this chat should be. But to call foul on my participation in the General forum shows that you never really intended to have your views challenged, both within the light of LDS doctrine and within the light of general scrutiny.

H.

It appears to me that you are now back-paddling. It seems that if you had indeed received personal revelation that babies were speaking Adamic language, you wouldn't have waited until I made my post to reveal this to us.

At first you were in disagreement with anyone agreeing with the OP. Now, suddenly, you are trying to convince us that you agree with the OP. In the very same post you then re-iterate the point that if Altersteve wanted a polite discussion free of dissent, that he could have set this thread up in the Social Hall?? You appear to be in conflict with your own comments. Your previous posts to this thread seem to me like they spoke louder than your current posts.

It is my understanding that personal revelation is received in the language that the recipient will be able to recognize, which is usually their native tongue (as was manifested by the Holy Ghost at Pentecost when the people who were gathered together were able to hear and speak messages being spoken in their native language). Are you fluent in the Adamic language? Is Adamic your native tongue?

Regards,

jo

Edited September 12, 2011 by jo1952

[Bond...James Bond]

Well gosh, I really hope I can sleep tonight knowing that an anonymous person on an internet discussion board doesn't believe me.

Please.

True. You should be more worried about any friends or family members who might think of committing you with any of a number of mental disorders.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

True. You should be more worried about any friends or family members who might think of committing you with any of a number of mental disorders.

That is just cold and rude.