Is The Veil Drawn Gradually?

[LDSToronto]

I wasn't aware I needed a video. Do you refuse to accept something like this without proof? "Yeesh."

I absolutely refuse to believe something like this without proof. Is it possible that your mom pointed at this statue and said, "Jesus" with sufficient frequency that you simply repeated what yuo'd hear for nine months?

H.

[LDSToronto]

Maybe if it was a one time thing but it wasn't. He was always laughing and talking to what appeared a blank wall.

Lot's of babies do this. My babies did, my friends babies did, etc. Is is possible that this is a way for the baby to learn about the world, and not some cast of cherubs performing for the baby?

H.

[cdowis]

I ask this because I often hear stories about how babies who have only been alive for mere months recognize images of Christ.

Researchers have discovered that infants recognize any general facial features, such as Mickey Mouse.

[cdowis]

My own personal experience:

Before I was a member of the church, I was attending a church youth group meeting where the missionaries had been invited. They gave a discussion on the Plan of Salvation -- the pre-existence, the kingdoms after death, etc.

I suddenly realized that I had been taught this before. I could remember it very distinctly but couldn't remember where or when. It was a very strong impression.

[LDSToronto]

For those who believe that babies who stare off into space or laugh for no reason are indicators of the 'thinness of the veil", do you equally posit that a baby who cries, screams, and throws tantrums is an indication that they are in the presence of Satan or are subject to demonic possession?

H.

Edited September 8, 2011 by LDSToronto

[LDSToronto]

My own personal experience:

Before I was a member of the church, I was attending a church youth group meeting where the missionaries had been invited. They gave a discussion on the Plan of Salvation -- the pre-existence, the kingdoms after death, etc.

I suddenly realized that I had been taught this before. I could remember it very distinctly but couldn't remember where or when. It was a very strong impression.

I've also had deja vu.

H.

[Deborah]

For those who believe that babies who stare off into space or laugh for no reason are indicators of the 'thinness of the veil", do you equally posit that a baby who cries, screams, and throws tantrums is an indication that they are in the presence of Satan or are subject to demonic possession?

Babies who cry, scream and throw tantrums do so with reason usually related to some physical need or frustration.

[thesometimesaint]

Deborah:

Don't I know it. When my oldest was just new born he did not sleep(we had to take long drives in our car just to get him to sleep), and was a very unhappy baby. Then on the day he turned five month old he scuntched himslef over to our coffee table put his hand up, stood up and walked around the table, got down and started to crawl. He was finally HAPPY. All he really wanted was mobility.

[JAHS]

Likewise, I believe that as a person nears their death, that the veil becomes thinner. I had already read about and heard many stories of terminally ill patients seeing loved ones who had already passed on. When my father was dying, he would occasionally open his eyes and look toward one particular area of the room and smile. When my mother was dying, she awoke at one point and said very simply "Momma!". She died about four hours later.

I believe absolutely that the spirit world is all around us; perhaps a better way of expressing it is that the physical world exists within the spiritual world. Inasmuch as we are surrounded by principalities of darkness, I believe there is a balance of light as well.

Regards,

jo

I used to work in a hospital as an orderly with terminally ill patients. One day the nurse and I went in to an elderly man's room to tend to him. He had been pretty much unconscience for many days. Right after we pulled him up in his bed to get him better situated, he suddnely lifted up his head, his eyes opened and became focused at a point at the end of the bed. A big smile appeared on his face as if he saw someone he recognized. The nurse and I both looked to see what he was smiling at, but we saw nothing. He then laid his head back down, closed his eyes and took his last breath. We decided it was probably his wife he saw who had died a few years earlier.

[LDSToronto]

Babies who cry, scream and throw tantrums do so with reason usually related to some physical need or frustration.

Is it equally possible that babies who stare off into space or laugh for no reason easily discernible to adults is doing so for some physical or developmental reason?

H.

[LDSToronto]

I used to work in a hospital as an orderly with terminally ill patients. One day the nurse and I went in to an elderly man's room to tend to him. He had been pretty much unconscience for many days. Right after we pulled him up in his bed to get him better situated, he suddnely lifted up his head, his eyes opened and became focused at a point at the end of the bed. A big smile appeared on his face as if he saw someone he recognized. The nurse and I both looked to see what he was smiling at, but we saw nothing. He then laid his head back down, closed his eyes and took his last breath. We decided it was probably his wife he saw who had died a few years earlier.

How do you know that you weren't telling yourself that story to comfort *yourself*? Is it possible that the man had some hallucination as his body began to shutdown? How do you know the smile was a reaction to a familiar sight? Perhaps the man was happy to be conscious one last time.

Seems to be a resurgence of Dark Ages Science happening around here...

H.

[altersteve]

How do you know that you weren't telling yourself that story to comfort *yourself*? Is it possible that the man had some hallucination as his body began to shutdown? How do you know the smile was a reaction to a familiar sight? Perhaps the man was happy to be conscious one last time.

Seems to be a resurgence of Dark Ages Science happening around here...

H.

People don't like people who have nothing better to do than criticize every word they say. If you want to disagree, fine, but do it respectfully.

[JAHS]

How do you know that you weren't telling yourself that story to comfort *yourself*? Is it possible that the man had some hallucination as his body began to shutdown? How do you know the smile was a reaction to a familiar sight? Perhaps the man was happy to be conscious one last time.

Seems to be a resurgence of Dark Ages Science happening around here...

H.

I had no need for comforting. I guess you had to be there to really appreciate it.

[LDSToronto]

People don't like people who have nothing better to do than criticize every word they say. If you want to disagree, fine, but do it respectfully.

I think you asked for opinions in this thread - I've offered mine. Allow me to elaborate on my comment about Dark Ages Science. Imagine you could pull a 10th century AD field worker into the present time, and that field worker was shown an car driving down the street. What would be the field workers explanation for the movement of the car? I'm sure all sorts of outlandish and remarkable stories would be told - invisible horses, devilscraft, maybe even angelic cherubs were towing the car with fine threads. The field worker knows nothing of internal combustion engines and gasoline and physics and chemistry, and does the best he can with the knowledge he has.

The explanations offered in this thread all seem like they are being offered absent of modern findings in psychology, medicine, child development, brain and behaviour, and a host of other disciplines. A simple google search will show you that there are viable theories as to why babies laugh at seemingly nothing, why people appear calm and happy prior to death, why some children speak early, how the passage of time changes memory, etc etc etc.

We don't need to rely on rampant speculation of apparitions and other supernatural phenomena.IN other words, we don't need to puzzle things out with limited knowledge, like our friend from the 10th century. Rational explanations and alternatives are abundant.

H.

[JAHS]

I think you asked for opinions in this thread - I've offered mine. Allow me to elaborate on my comment about Dark Ages Science. Imagine you could pull a 10th century AD field worker into the present time, and that field worker was shown an car driving down the street. What would be the field workers explanation for the movement of the car? I'm sure all sorts of outlandish and remarkable stories would be told - invisible horses, devilscraft, maybe even angelic cherubs were towing the car with fine threads. The field worker knows nothing of internal combustion engines and gasoline and physics and chemistry, and does the best he can with the knowledge he has.

The explanations offered in this thread all seem like they are being offered absent of modern findings in psychology, medicine, child development, brain and behaviour, and a host of other disciplines. A simple google search will show you that there are viable theories as to why babies laugh at seemingly nothing, why people appear calm and happy prior to death, why some children speak early, how the passage of time changes memory, etc etc etc.

We don't need to rely on rampant speculation of apparitions and other supernatural phenomena.IN other words, we don't need to puzzle things out with limited knowledge, like our friend from the 10th century. Rational explanations and alternatives are abundant.

H.

I agree but they are not always the only explanation.

Edited September 8, 2011 by JAHS

[altersteve]

I think you asked for opinions in this thread - I've offered mine.

Yes, but you did so very disrespectfully and more critically than necessary. There's no need for that.

[LDSToronto]

Yes, but you did so very disrespectfully and more critically than necessary. There's no need for that.

You'll need to show me how I was very disrespectful. More critical than necessary, well, this is a discussion board, I suppose tolerances vary by poster.

H.

[cdowis]

People don't like people who have nothing better to do than criticize every word they say. If you want to disagree, fine, but do it respectfully.

This thread probably belongs to Social Hall, rather than General Discussion.

[LDSToronto]

This thread probably belongs to Social Hall, rather than General Discussion.

If all the OP wanted to do was have a cordial sharing of experiences with babies who can see beyond the veil, I agree. It sounds like that was the intent, but posting in this forum opens the conversation up to scrutiny.

H.

[jo1952]

I ask this because I often hear stories about how babies who have only been alive for mere months recognize images of Christ. For example, I started talking at age 9 months, and my first words were "Hi Jesus" at a small statue of the Savior in the living room of the apartment I lived in at the time. I also hear stories of babies sometimes becoming very calm and smiling when you talk to them about God and heaven, even though they probably don't understand a word you're saying. I have also heard some express their belief that babies can see angels, which is why you sometimes see them staring and smiling at what appears to be nothing.

This has led me to believe that Heavenly Father draws the veil over our minds very gradually, and that babies can remember heaven and know Christ when they see Him. What do you think?

I would just like to offer in addition to the experiences expressed already, that it seems entirely plausible that the veil closes slowly at birth. I believe that the veil is thinnest both at birth and at death. It just makes sense in acccordance to what has been taught about the veil when relating it to other knowledge which has been revealed and what makes up the LDS belief system.

Best regards,

jo

[Bond...James Bond]

I wasn't aware I needed a video. Do you refuse to accept something like this without proof? "Yeesh."

So your first words were not only "Hi Jesus" but was also a greeting to a supernatural deity that was also grammatically correct at age 9 months? Yep I'm going to want to see the video.

[Bond...James Bond]

Maybe if it was a one time thing but it wasn't. He was always laughing and talking to what appeared a blank wall.

Perhaps he saw to Prince of Darkness. Or Poltergeist. Or Santa. Or Cthulhu. Or maybe he was just playing a game and staring at a wall with his developing baby brain. There are a thousand possibilities, the most likely being that babies gibberish and wave their arms when they're babies.

[Deborah]

the most likely being that babies gibberish and wave their arms when they're babies.

They wave their arms and talk gibberish in response to something they see.

[altersteve]

So your first words were not only "Hi Jesus" but was also a greeting to a supernatural deity that was also grammatically correct at age 9 months? Yep I'm going to want to see the video.

Well gosh, I really hope I can sleep tonight knowing that an anonymous person on an internet discussion board doesn't believe me.

Please.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I ask this because I often hear stories about how babies who have only been alive for mere months recognize images of Christ. For example, I started talking at age 9 months, and my first words were "Hi Jesus" at a small statue of the Savior in the living room of the apartment er our minds very gradually, and that babies can remember heaven and know Christ when they see Him. What do you think?

If this were so would you not remember him as JEHOVAH?