Men & Women

[HeatherAnn]

Mens' & women's brains respond uniquely to the same stimulus... potentially, complimentary.

It might be helpful to exchange notes, to understand each other better.

I'll start... some are ideas I got from Charles Beckert (lds marital councilor).

Generally... (of course there are always exceptions)...

Different source of self-esteem: Men: Goals, esp. career/outside of home... Women: relationships, especially inside home.

Men tend to think compartmentally, & can easily change focus without thinking about previous focus.

Women think more integrated & tend to consider past, present & future simultaneously.

Men... (what husbands wish their wives knew)

-are visual (women are more emotional)

-are wife-pleasers for rewards

- are not mind-readers

- don't tell him to be the leader ('cause then he can't be)

Women... (what wives wish their husbands knew)

-What visual stimulus is to men, communication is to women (Sometimes women just need to be listened to & empathized with)

-need to feel safe with her man & trust him

-need to feel important & cherished

-Sex & cherished attention are not the same

What do you think your spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend or just those of the opposite sex should know?

Edited August 5, 2011 by HeatherAnn

[blueadept]

Generally... (of course there are always exceptions)...

I was amused when I met my wife and she wanted to be with someone who could handle her emotional times. Then she met me and we quickly figured out she acted like a guy who was career oriented, compartmentalized things, easily change focus without thinking from previous focus, not a mind-reader, tended take in information by using her five senses and major list person.

I, on the otherhand, am relationship oriented, tended to consider past, present and future simultaneously, welcomed counseling, read between the lines constantly, trusted my feelings more than what saw or heard and saw the big picture.

Total opposites and definite exceptions to what you posted HeatherAnn

I tend to like the Briggs-Meyers Personality Test a bit better and we've discussed this on the board a few times in order to try to better understand some of the personalities of the board.

I'm an INFP = introvert,intuitive, feeler, and perceptor.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

That all these pseudo-scientific and almost exclusively-anecdotal attempts to come up with major definitive gender-war "differences" between men and women are so vaguely useless as to be offensive, and that besides some basic core biology, we can treat each other as we'd like to be treated, since we have much more in common as humans than we have differences as genders.

(I'm a "female", according to those lists, for instance.)

[HeatherAnn]

That all these pseudo-scientific and almost exclusively-anecdotal attempts to come up with major definitive gender-war "differences" between men and women are so vaguely useless as to be offensive, and that besides some basic core biology, we can treat each other as we'd like to be treated, since we have much more in common as humans than we have differences as genders.

(I'm a "female", according to those lists, for instance.)

???

Did you miss the part, "Generally... Of course there are always exceptions"...?

Look, I didn't post this to tick anyone off...but to share what we wish the opposite sex knew.

I was hoping to help & to get more ideas.

Drop the quarters, please... For Pete or Myrtle's sake.

Blueadept,

I'm glad at least you noticed I explained it as generizations.

Are either of you going to answer the question?

[blueadept]

Due to my feminine personality type, I can't relate to your question.

The best way to relate to a member or the other gender is to understand their particular personality-type and build the communications from that point. I've had many kids I've raised and I can tell you that I handled everyone differently based on their personality-type. Trying to come up with general gender answers is pointless from my intuitive POV.

Edited August 5, 2011 by blueadept

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

I did answer it, actually.

What do you think your spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend or just those of the opposite sex should know?

That all these pseudo-scientific and almost exclusively-anecdotal attempts to come up with major definitive gender-war "differences" between men and women are so vaguely useless as to be offensive, and that besides some basic core biology, we can treat each other as we'd like to be treated, since we have much more in common as humans than we have differences as genders.

I'm sorry if I came off as over-sensitive. I agree you were careful to couch your post in generalities. I just fundamentally disagree with those generalities in the first place. Gungor is not any kind of authority; his description of male and female differences is, I think, pretty silly, and I find it frustrating when we LDS - who are supposed to be working towards Celestial Marriages like that of our Heavenly Parents - take part in the divisive gender-wars of the world instead of, say, the words of David O. McKay: "No other success can compensate for failure in the home."

... notice, he's not directing that to males or females, but rather to all people.

Edited August 5, 2011 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[Ariarates]

I'm with sister Jeremy on this one. Here's an article on the Gender Similarities Hypothesis. Note that the conclusion re. sexuality is not entirely valid anymore, see this article on gender differences and sexuality. Bottom line, men and women are more alike than different and the differences are not big, generally speaking.

[Deborah]

I think this is a better indicator of personality differences COLOR CODE

It's been pretty accurate on people I know.

[Questing Beast]

...

What do you think your spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend or just those of the opposite sex should know?

"Men are from Mars, Women from Venus."

Facile quip, that, and not improved upon by all of the studies and "science" attempting to lend empirical certitude to the biological differences in gender that result in metaphysical differences in perception and behavior.

All I want from any person (but especially women), is honesty. Really, it's that simple. Total, absolute personal integrity will cover the entire "multitude of sins". Honesty is the heart and soul of charity. Without honesty, charity is nonexistent. With honesty, all things are possible, even the ability to become "god".

As a child and teenager, I met, repeatedly, females of my age group that played emotional and mind games. The quickest way to turn me away is to play with my emotions. It is the basest form of dishonesty that I know of. A pleasure taken in causing/manipulating adoration and misery is a callous use of a woman's power to attract men. "Generally", women have this and men do not; by nature, women are ambitious to cause love, and men are by nature oriented to feel adoration for women. Our society/culture has moved far toward subverting this generally natural emotional parity; turning it into the confusion of gender roles by making women and men out to be more or less identical other than physical appearances. I don't believe any of it.

I believe that in its perfect form (i.e. not altered by the imperfections of a mortal world), the adoration of men for women, and the desire of women to cause love, is what makes us whole; makes us "soul-mates" for eternity....

[CV75]

What do you think your spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend or just those of the opposite sex should know?

That the 3 Stooges were comedic geniuses. And Indiana Jones looks like Shemp.

[Storm Rider]

When I read these types of topics I can almost sense that the 5th Demension ready to break out singing "Aquarius". It feels so New Agey to me. Men and Women are different from each other. Men and Women are also very much alike. Further, women to not have a corner on spirituality. Men do not have a corner on being leaders. Women are no more sensitive to the Spirit than men are. There are exceptions to everything. Attempting to generalize is to purposely put on blinders about all the exceptions.

As far as relationships go, there must be a leader and as long as my wife tells me I can be leader than I am. She lets me know when I am no longer the leader.

The roles men and women play in a marriage and in a family are needed. Without either of them in the home, something is missing. Yin/Yang is the best analogy to explain this to me. I have to go now, my wife is telling me what I need to do...now.

[HeatherAnn]

Blueadept, Jeremy & Ariarates,

Let me clarify... Our goal is to be whole... (an interesting version of "holy"). How we do that best, is to harmonize with the opposite of who we are (however that is).

I'd say, my husband (as well as the husbands of my sisters) are not the rough type guys, but are more nurturing than many guys.

I'd say, that my sisters & I tend not to be prissy, considering how we grew up.

So, again, I realize there are exceptions... & in fact, our goal is exceptions...

Similar as in personality books (esp. Color Code, mentioned by Deborah) the goal is not to be red, white, blue or yellow, but a healthy rainbow mix of all.

Yet, I still see some significant differences between men & women... which is why children do best to have both mother & fathers.

Men & women are similar in cardiovascular, digestive, lymphatic, muscular (?) & respiratory body systems.

However there are distinct differences between men & women in endocrine, nervous, 5-senses, skeletal & reproductive systems.

In a study on brains, men & women have been found to feel emotions differently...

http://www.endowmentmed.org/content/view/485/33/

I'll also note, that as people are married longer, they tend to become more alike... men more feminine, women more masculine.

Again, our goal is to be WHOLE.

The purpose of this thread is to understand other perspectives... to learn & expand awareness. Please don't read any more into it, ok?

[Ariarates]

The purpose of this thread is to understand other perspectives... to learn & expand awareness.

Literally thousands upon thousands of scientific studies have shown for many decades that there are not that many differences between men and women from a psychological point of view (which I take this thread to be about), and the differences that do exist, are not that big. Is that not a valid perspective?

As you can see from my first reference, the Cosmo perspective ("Ten ways to improve communication with your man") can actually be harmful:

The question of the magnitude of psychological gender differences is more than just an academic concern. There are serious costs of overinflated claims of gender differences (for an extended discussion of this point, see Barnett & Rivers, 2004; see also White & Kowalski, 1994). These costs occur in many areas, including work, parenting, and relationships.

(...)

The scientific evidence does not support the belief that men and women have inherent difficulties in communicating across gender.

[HeatherAnn]

I think this is a better indicator of personality differences COLOR CODE

It's been pretty accurate on people I know.

Yeah, I think Color Code is more simple, yet maybe not quiet as detailed as Jung Briggs Myer Typology.

I also think people change in personality... maybe less so in temperament though.

When I took that test as a teen (when the book first came out) I was white & yellow mostly.

Now, I'm more blue with a little red (but aren't most parents a little red? lol).

[HeatherAnn]

"Men are from Mars, Women from Venus."

Facile quip, that, and not improved upon by all of the studies and "science" attempting to lend empirical certitude to the biological differences in gender that result in metaphysical differences in perception and behavior.

All I want from any person (but especially women), is honesty. Really, it's that simple. Total, absolute personal integrity will cover the entire "multitude of sins". Honesty is the heart and soul of charity. Without honesty, charity is nonexistent. With honesty, all things are possible, even the ability to become "god".

As a child and teenager, I met, repeatedly, females of my age group that played emotional and mind games. The quickest way to turn me away is to play with my emotions. It is the basest form of dishonesty that I know of. A pleasure taken in causing/manipulating adoration and misery is a callous use of a woman's power to attract men. "Generally", women have this and men do not; by nature, women are ambitious to cause love, and men are by nature oriented to feel adoration for women. Our society/culture has moved far toward subverting this generally natural emotional parity; turning it into the confusion of gender roles by making women and men out to be more or less identical other than physical appearances. I don't believe any of it.

I believe that in its perfect form (i.e. not altered by the imperfections of a mortal world), the adoration of men for women, and the desire of women to cause love, is what makes us whole; makes us "soul-mates" for eternity....

QuestingBeast,

Thank you, thank you for answering the question & with such insight!

Honesty is important, like Billy Joel sung about.

And I agree that differences should be respected, not ignored or tried to be made alike.

I especially love your last line - about making us "whole."

We have much to learn from those who think, feel & act differently from us, as humbling & exciting as it can be!

[HeatherAnn]

That the 3 Stooges were comedic geniuses. And Indiana Jones looks like Shemp.

lol... Wait, let me get my notepad out.

I'm trying to see the resemblence between Shemp & Harrison Ford... it's a stretch, but if I squint just so....

[HeatherAnn]

When I read these types of topics I can almost sense that the 5th Demension ready to break out singing "Aquarius". It feels so New Agey to me. Men and Women are different from each other. Men and Women are also very much alike. Further, women to not have a corner on spirituality. Men do not have a corner on being leaders. Women are no more sensitive to the Spirit than men are. There are exceptions to everything. Attempting to generalize is to purposely put on blinders about all the exceptions.

What I most wanted to know is what you wish your spouse knew.

Maybe in today's "politically paranoid" ( I mean) "politically correct" world, I should have rephrased this thread to "different perspectives" or something less seemingly threatening.

As far as relationships go, there must be a leader and as long as my wife tells me I can be leader than I am. She lets me know when I am no longer the leader.

The roles men and women play in a marriage and in a family are needed. Without either of them in the home, something is missing. Yin/Yang is the best analogy to explain this to me. I have to go now, my wife is telling me what I need to do...now.

Wait... weren't you just saying generalizing is purposely putting on blinders about exceptions?

So... is there anything you wish your wife understood, whether you've told her or not?

[HeatherAnn]

Arearates,

If it's true, as you quoted that, "The scientific evidence does not support the belief that men and women have inherent difficulties in communicating across gender"...

Then, why so many divorces?

http://www.divorceguide.com/usa/divorce-information/divorce-statistics-in-the-usa.html

[volgadon]

Arearates,

If it's true, as you quoted that, "The scientific evidence does not support the belief that men and women have inherent difficulties in communicating across gender"...

Then, why so many divorces?

http://www.divorceguide.com/usa/divorce-information/divorce-statistics-in-the-usa.html

More to do with expectations and crisis-resolving skills ans stamina.

[Ariarates]

If it's true, as you quoted that, "The scientific evidence does not support the belief that men and women have inherent difficulties in communicating across gender"... Then, why so many divorces?

Difficulties in communicating do exist. They just don't appear to be inherent to gender differences.

[Nathair/|\]

Arearates,

If it's true, as you quoted that, "The scientific evidence does not support the belief that men and women have inherent difficulties in communicating across gender"...

Then, why so many divorces?

http://www.divorcegu...in-the-usa.html

Spencer W. Kimball wrote in Marriage and Divorce that divorce is always the result of selfishness. (I think he was president of the church when he wrote it, but I'm not sure.)

[volgadon]

For a bit of fun:

[Calm]

The problem with making generalities is that it may set up expectations through which reality is perceived and therefore likely to lead to greater error than attempting to simply treat each other person as unique in your experience. One is much more open to nuances in the second case than in the first.

[Storm Rider]

What I most wanted to know is what you wish your spouse knew.

Maybe in today's "politically paranoid" ( I mean) "politically correct" world, I should have rephrased this thread to "different perspectives" or something less seemingly threatening.

Wait... weren't you just saying generalizing is purposely putting on blinders about exceptions?

So... is there anything you wish your wife understood, whether you've told her or not?

It is just hard for me to be serious about some subjects. Humor, even when it is a poor attempt, helps most situations.

As I have worked with quorums and groups of men in the Church, some issues do seem to be in common. i could not quantify it in any psuedo philosophies, but just common problems. Many men would want their wives to know there is a time for sex and a time for intimacy and sometimes for both. Many men just want to be touched by their wives.

The Church does a great job about teaching the law of chastity; however, in the minds of some individuals this is undestood as sex is bad. Nothing could be further from the Church and that type of understanding needs to be overcome. LDS women are not different than women in the world. Some are frigid and while others are very eager. Men would say to have fun with sex. Both individuals need to talk about what pleases them. If lovemaking is not good, tell your partner what would make it better.

I remember one elder talking to me about his relationship with his wife. They had talked enough for him to know she had never orgasmed. He tried several things, but felt like he needed to make it romantic. He comes home, makes dinner; when she arrives, the candles are lite and a hot bath is ready. She refreshes herself, he finishes dinner. He gives her roses, the night moves on. In the middle of their love making, she comments that she wants to paint the bedroom walls tan. This is an extreme case (I pray to God few men have had to endure that), but this young brother was crushed. When things are this far progressed, a professional marriage counselor is needed.

Those it is extreme, a lot of men that I have talked to have similar feelings. Women should never be so aloof that they cannot even be present for the experience.

On another note, brethren have heard enough that women are the real spiritual giants. Women don't say this as much as ward and stake leaders, but it wears thin. I remember reading a short story during my youth entitled "Flight". A boys father is killed and this young man must learn to care for his mother and family. The gist was that a boy does not become a man until there is need of one. Understanding this concept would help many women understand how be better interact with her husband.

Over the years these are two of the types of things I have heard most from elders as well as high priests.

[HeatherAnn]

It is just hard for me to be serious about some subjects. Humor, even when it is a poor attempt, helps most situations.

As I have worked with quorums and groups of men in the Church, some issues do seem to be in common. i could not quantify it in any psuedo philosophies, but just common problems. Many men would want their wives to know there is a time for sex and a time for intimacy and sometimes for both. Many men just want to be touched by their wives.

The Church does a great job about teaching the law of chastity; however, in the minds of some individuals this is undestood as sex is bad. Nothing could be further from the Church and that type of understanding needs to be overcome. LDS women are not different than women in the world. Some are frigid and while others are very eager. Men would say to have fun with sex. Both individuals need to talk about what pleases them. If lovemaking is not good, tell your partner what would make it better.

I remember one elder talking to me about his relationship with his wife. They had talked enough for him to know she had never orgasmed. He tried several things, but felt like he needed to make it romantic. He comes home, makes dinner; when she arrives, the candles are lite and a hot bath is ready. She refreshes herself, he finishes dinner. He gives her roses, the night moves on. In the middle of their love making, she comments that she wants to paint the bedroom walls tan. This is an extreme case (I pray to God few men have had to endure that), but this young brother was crushed. When things are this far progressed, a professional marriage counselor is needed.

Those it is extreme, a lot of men that I have talked to have similar feelings. Women should never be so aloof that they cannot even be present for the experience.

On another note, brethren have heard enough that women are the real spiritual giants. Women don't say this as much as ward and stake leaders, but it wears thin. I remember reading a short story during my youth entitled "Flight". A boys father is killed and this young man must learn to care for his mother and family. The gist was that a boy does not become a man until there is need of one. Understanding this concept would help many women understand how be better interact with her husband.

Over the years these are two of the types of things I have heard most from elders as well as high priests.

Stormrider,

THANK YOU for answering the question.

Why the heck is it so difficult to answer, "What do you wish your significant other understood?"

Seriously, there are many intelligent people on this forum... but this thread is making me think there is plenty of emotional & self-reflective ignorance.