Ny Times Article On Utah Liquor Laws

[sjdawg]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/20/us/20liquor.html?_r=2&hp

[Libs]

The laws sound very complicated, for no good reason, that I could tell.

[cdowis]

The laws sound very complicated, for no good reason, that I could tell.

"Utah’s bar scene has flourished since then (the passage of the new law)"

They seemed to have figured it out.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

"Utah’s bar scene has flourished since then (the passage of the new law)"

They seemed to have figured it out.

Now that I am a little older, Utah's liquor laws are or were a little strange. I am glad to see some of it getting more normal.

[blackstrap]

Perhaps someone can channel OPR and get his opinion. My opinion is that anyone who sells alcohol should be held civily and criminally liable for any damage done by the patron.Then it would not matter where the bottles are kept or what price was charged . I have no tolerance for public intoxication ,for drinkers who drive,for drinkers who go home and abuse the spouse and children.Society has paid too high a price because too many judges,lawyers and policemen treat drunks as if they were just unruly children.I think it's because they have a "there but for the grace of god..." attitude.But let me tell you how I REALLY feel...

[cdowis]

Just curious, does anyone have any statistics on DUI deaths in Utah. Are these strict laws actually doing any good?

[blackstrap]

A friend of mine stated that when he was a doctor in the ER they did blood tests routinely on auto accident victims. It was his observation that in 80% of the accidents,alcohol was a Factor.That is not to say that the people were over the legal limit,but alcohol was present,often in significant amounts.

[Analytics]

Perhaps someone can channel OPR and get his opinion. My opinion is that anyone who sells alcohol should be held civily and criminally liable for any damage done by the patron.Then it would not matter where the bottles are kept or what price was charged . I have no tolerance for public intoxication ,for drinkers who drive,for drinkers who go home and abuse the spouse and children.Society has paid too high a price because too many judges,lawyers and policemen treat drunks as if they were just unruly children.I think it's because they have a "there but for the grace of god..." attitude.But let me tell you how I REALLY feel...

Would you extend this concept of holding the sellers responsible for their customers' behavior to other things? For example, should anybody who sells guns be held civily and criminally liable for any damage down with then guns they sell?

[frankenstein]

while other states have dry counties and/or cities, the nuttiest of all laws is that "children" can not witness the mixing the of drinks. that really takes the cake for nutty.

[blackstrap]

We already do hold people accountable.If I make a bomb and sell it to you and you blow something up,I will be also held liable for the damages.If I make a car that is flawed and sell it to you and an accident occurs,I can also share in the liability. If I make some medication...and so on. Cigarette manufactures were held liable for the damages caused by the legal and voluntary use of their product.So I contend that the manufactures of alcohol can and should be held to account for damages caused by the legal and voluntary use of their product.Bartenders can be charged if they overserve a patron,especially if the patron then causes damages later.

Manufacturers of couches and remote controls are next...

[Pahoran]

Perhaps someone can channel OPR and get his opinion.

Given that he ran a bar himself, one can only presume that he would have been fine with it.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Kenngo1969]

Now that I am a little older, Utah's liquor laws are or were a little strange. I am glad to see some of it getting more normal.

You mean, as opposed to some other states, in which some counties are completely dry?

[MeDotOrg]

We already do hold people accountable.If I make a bomb and sell it to you and you blow something up,I will be also held liable for the damages.

Actually, thanks to the NRA, tracking the origin of bomb making materials has been hampered. The NRA has consistently lobbied against any legislation that would put taggants (traceable chemical tags) in explosive materials.

[Programmer]

A friend of mine stated that when he was a doctor in the ER they did blood tests routinely on auto accident victims. It was his observation that in 80% of the accidents,alcohol was a Factor.That is not to say that the people were over the legal limit,but alcohol was present,often in significant amounts.

I once had a minor speeding ticket, and in traffic school I asked the instructor what percentage alcohol was involved in traffic accidents. He stated it was 90% or higher. Which tells me two things:

1. Speeding (45 in a 35 mph zone) is not dangerous.

2. Alcohol consumption is dangerous.

[frankenstein]

I once had a minor speeding ticket, and in traffic school I asked the instructor what percentage alcohol was involved in traffic accidents. He stated it was 90% or higher. Which tells me two things:

1. Speeding (45 in a 35 mph zone) is not dangerous.

2. Alcohol consumption is dangerous.

your second thing is missing from very important aspects. what you should have realized, or rather what you could deduce without fallacy, is that driver while under the influence of alcohol impairment is dangerous.

[Calm]

Often it is the double whammy of alcohol and sleep deprivation that causes accidents, can't remember the percentage but considering the lesser number of cars on the roads it is quite remarkable how many accidents happen at night. The Exxon Valdez disaster which was blamed on the captain being drunk was a combo as he hadn't had sleep for almost two days IIRC (this stuff is in one of my sleep hygiene books so please don't ask me for references, just take it as an interesting side note. ).