SAVELLI Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Joel Ricks Book:Map at the endThanks. It has nice and interesting things. Savelli
SAVELLI Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Could "language" provide some more insight about Book of Mormon Geography?How wrong and biased are we with the idea that the Mulekites were speaking Hebrew? It was just a little different type of dialect in relation to those spoken by Nephites and Lamanites? Could you provide any evidences that in fact Sabelli's language is the same Nephitic language and they are/were spoken in America Continent? And that there are evidences on that in USA? Jews of N. Y. for “very long” knew that Jews from Israel were living in USA... I guess that is much earlier than Joseph Smith started to translate Book of Mormon. This is what I heard from USA Jews: that caused some "discussion" in N.Y. That is part of their internal history. But there is one point in which Joseph Smith made a public statement in which he was clearly in agreement with the Jews. It is in History of the Church. Nobody paid or pays attention to him because of their ignorance. Thus they provided ignorance to clear Joseph's teachings. Among others, that Nephite's Kingdom, stretched from the region of Cumorah Hill (next to Atlantic Sea, and of the great town of New York) to Rocky Mountains. They think their main prophet is an illiterate man, ignorant one, teaching wrong things. And that such kingdom was from Mexico to Guatemala. And thus they believe in false scientists and false prophets. Wow!!!For sure the Mulekites were speaking some type of Arab dialect, probably with some mixture of Sabellian words. This is why it was not so difficult to start a dialogue. And the Nephites and Lamanites were never speaking Hebrew and even not writing in Hebrew. Only very few, the most learned one, could write and read in Hebrew, as it was found one object with Hebrew text on it, in USA… The common people could speak and write in Sabelli's language, the Nephitic that is quite like a mixture of Greek (the main language) with some Hebrew and some Phoenician (you can see such Phoenician influence rising up at the decadence and collapse of Nephitic Empire). Can you provide some evidence of Nephitic (Sabelli's) words in USA? Also of Mulekitic (Arabian's) words in USA/Canada? Not so difficult, if you pay attention to the words, as they are written, and you consider the "phonetics" process of converting them from "Indian sound" (pronounce) into White European biased proud people "translating" that into written words and texts. You could see that in the Nephitic Fort named Tecumseh, guarding the Indian Trail coming from North Lands to the Detroit town (then MANTI town). You can recognize it is TEANCUM because of the Book of Mormon narrative about it being a strategic military fort and several geographic aspects related to it. And also you compare with nowadays reality/situation. And you compare the "phonetics" and you conclude it is TeANCUMsch, with the sch being quite like "che", or belonged to TeANCUM (before "collapse"). Thus language may help recognize the Book of Mormon Geography. As when making topographic mapping services, having one landmark is quite essential to obtain a reliable and useful map of a property or region to represent its geography. There is no such thing as silly as some "internal map" based on the "mind imagination" of some topographs just sleeping and dreaming under some good tree! Hard work?CUMORAH is a Sabellian word. It means CUMO + R + AH, or read as in Hebrew it is: AH + R + CUMO, orAH = "Belongs to, is property of"R = verb, here is as invitationCUMO = CIMO = "CROWNING, reach to the "top" (as of "pleasure" in sexual intercourse... CUM, CumA for female CumI for male CumO and CumU is "neutral", not sexual). See another related Sabelli's word, CUMuLus Nimbus, is a type of cloud that goes very high and becomes huge and has a very brilliant top, which is like the "cume =top" of a HILL and dark/black bottom and rains). In Sabelli's language the "most high part of a roof" (or mountain range) is the CUMEeira or CIMEira. In Hebrew like "CM"... ---> CUMOrAH, is quite like the INVITATION/order to Get to a HILL to reach a top (as of a hill) and of FULNESS (of knowledge, of satisfation, of pleasure), in a “dual meaning”.What is SABELLI? Are there SABELLA? For sure, there are. Both mean "Jehovah God", in a "male" and "female phrase".Can explain? SABELLI = SABaoth + EL + I (aoth was suppressed for "respect" for not saying full name of divinity) = SABEL + i = JEHOVAH(=SABaoth)+EL(=God)+I(me, My) =My God is Jehovah.SABELLA was representation of Temple Menorah Candlestick but with 9 or more candlestick (origin of modern Jewish festival of lights Menukhah) in Joel 3:6 days, and it was quite like Jehovah's "wife". SABaoth + EL + A with A="female" = SABEL + A or SAB + EL + A.Europe is full of names SABELLA or SABELLA or ISABELLA and it is even in Book of Mormon, as the name of that "prostitute", ISABEL, which is I + SABEL. You can see the Nephites were aware of the "SABEL" people and language... Even ELISABETH or ELIZABETH is also a named based on SABEL:EL + I + SABETH = EL(=God) + I (=male) + SABao (not "E", language corruption)TH = EL I SABaoTH and as it is in Nephitic=Sabelli's, change from right to left, and read:SABAOTH I EL = Jehovah male=MAN God. Jehovah God Man. What about AL? It is equally "God" in Arab language. The difference between Arab and Hebrew, is that Hebrew uses "E" (as EL) and Arab replaces it by the letter/sound "A" (as AL). Thus the Nephitic town, that Lehi's Nephi's people built in Egypt 2,600 years ago, was written NEPHIch (ch="property, ownership", town for Nephites live in, Nephites town) and nowadays it is written NaPHIch. Just it was replaced "E" by "a".What about "God"? In Hebrew it is written as "EL". Thus in Arab it is written as "AL".The Supreme Being, the "One and Supreme God", the I am What I AM, the one mentioned in Book of ALMA, in 11:22 to 11:31, is ALLAH, which is a COMPOSED WORD. I am a former Muslim (Islamite) of quite long years ago.ALLAH is AL + ILAH, "God of Divinity", or GOD of Gods=HIS Supreme Servants (could be), or Supreme Divinity (just the Only One as such, Alma 11:22-11:31). There it be. AL ILAH has as most important the AL which is equivalent to EL and is equivalent to SAB (short expression for SABAOTH=SABaoth=Jehovah=God=EL=AL). What about the USA's word, very Indian originated word, native word, that is half ARAB and half NEPHITIC = SABELLI's word? Is it a FARSE? SAB-AL? SABAL?SABALas SABaoth + AL. As it is written in Sabellich's = Nephitich's language, you must "read" it from right to left: AL + SAB (not write!) and the meaning is:God Jehovah is on the FLAG of Florida STATE, of the USA? Is SAB-AL a Nephitic + ARAB names? Than you can understand the Nephites and Lamanites were able to run through the coast of Gulf of Mexico (since the discharge of Mississippi river in it, as coming from Zelph's burial place, next to Illinois River = Sidon River South-ward) to Long Island (New York town, "Liberty land"), where we have such type of SAB-AL growing... We can see also, for the distribution of INDIAN NATIVE name "Sabal", it would go also to coast from the place where Mississippi River discharges into the Gulf of Mexico, to Mexico and to whole Central America. Thus it would be the "enlarged limits" for Lamanite Empire, at the decline/collapse of Nephite Empire, when mixed with "wild African-like Bees"... thus we could have in mind the greatly expanded Geography of such people. Moving toward Brazil, for example. You should not be so silly and innocent and accept the idea/reasoning that some other people (not Jaredites), bad one, also did such route, and caused ... you may guess, and as result. Like wild African Bees hybriding with quite pacific European bees. Remember that Jesus was/is the king of the Jews and Arabs, because king David was an Arab descendent... Ruth? Hum?Sabal Palm - Florida State Symbols - Symbols - Florida Facts ...www.flheritage.com › Florida Facts › Symbols - Em cacheThe 1953 Florida legislature designated the sabal palm as the state tree, and the 1970 legislature mandated that the sabal palm should replace the cocoa ...The Florida State Sealhttp://www.flheritage.com/facts/symbols/seals.cfmThe sabal palm is often referred to as the cabbage or palmetto palm and sometimes as the Carolina palmetto, common palmetto or, by it's scientific name, the Sabal palmetto.http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/trees/fl_sabal_palmetto_palm.htm(1) The sabal palmetto palm, which is also known as the cabbage palm, and sometimes as the cabbage palmetto, a tree native to Florida, is hereby designated as the Florida state tree. http://www.floridata.com/ref/s/sab_palm.cfmIt's fair to say that no one knows for sure the origin of the name Sabal.and 2) most commercially available canned product is obtained from wild stands of Sabal species in Mexico and Central America which is decimating those populations. You can read about several other members of the Sabal genus in Floridata. The Texas palmetto (S. mexicana) is very similar to the cabbage palm but is somewhat shorter and stouter. The Puerto Rican hat palm (S. causiarum) looks like a supersized cabbage palmetto on steroids. The blue palm (S. minor) and scrub palm (S. etonia) are small palms that do not form an above ground trunk and can be used in landscapes much like shrubs. I love them all.
SAVELLI Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 How are written the following names? Read them from right to left in capital letters.M O R M O N (MOR + MON, read from right to left as MON + MOR = MOuNtain + MOre, The most important of all MOuNtains? CALVARY MONte = Hill, for religious purpose).MORONI (MORO + NI, read as NI + MORO. It means NI=humble + MORO=bitter; humble bittered man).AmulonAlma MOR is a very much used word originated from LATIN. It means “of greatest importance”. Thus captain “mor”, the most powerful captain of all of them.Latin inherited a lot of Sabelli’s words. MON is used for “hill”, as in MONmatre, an important “hill” of Paris, where it started. Mon is from “mon-te, monte=hill”. From MOuNTAIN and English corruption adding the “U”. Thus mon is the short version of MOuNtain. See images from Mon Matre region of Paris: Imagens de MonMatrehttp://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/f9ae412fc6d3ebeb7513fdaf14d5e02c6c323ed13bc8236e6b2162cdd98fc6c96g.jpgYou can see how it was written MORMON and MORONI quite in the standard Nephitic language, in good quality CARACTORS (standard Nephitic characters = Sabelli's), quite like from Cumorah Hill geographic position at the start of the Nephitic Empire. Then, in the next line of Characters, under the line with CARACTORS, you can see the situation of Nephite Characters at the Geographic middle position of Nephitic Empire, more or less at the date of its collapse. Finally, the next line shows the final situation, the involution toward very corrupted characters, at the Geographic extreme position, toward Rocky Mountain (New Mexico), already departed from the normal Nephite Empire limits. After the collapse of such empire. Click over previous (above) URL for you see the next following figure very enlarged and the characters and Caractors in great details:With best personal regards, sincerely yours, SAVELLI
bjw Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Think about the name Tecumseh, that is an Indian name and so important, that it appears "twice" and separated by a short distance. One place was quite like a "fort place" in the USA territory and the other being quite like other "fort place" in Canada. This one was the very important Teancum town and fort mentioned in Book of Mormon. It is sited quite like to take care the Indian movements toward the right part of North Lands, bordering the North Sea pathway, as to protect the town of MANTI. It is very clear that Tecumseh was a kind of corruption of TeANcum-Sch, and probably it was difficult to avoid phonetic corruption loosing the AN and the added Seh=SCHah (="property of").You can see the location of Tecumseh (in the Canadian side is the one mentioned in Book of Mormon). The other is at the left of the big sized “E” letter with bold red color (at the very left down corner). We can reason TECUMseh as being TEanCUMseh, thus the town of Teancum, which is TE + ANCUM. The name and title "Te" is very used among the Sabelli's language. And Ancum is quite like the language corrupted as Ancona = Ancom+A (Ancum phonetically, in female gender). Ancum for those who know some Nephitic means "very large, very wide, very vast, and other related superlatives). Thus Tecumseh is pointing to Teancum name and place. Thus RipliANCUM is nearby, you may guess... Having evaluated a land-mark it is easy to find all related places and events for a given Geographic Area, as this one, shown above...Go to point "D", in big red color. It is the position of Manti Town = Fort, which is the same position of the very ancient Fort (of USA and French) that originated the town of Detroit. The "fort" is now a touristy place. From point "D" you move a little to the right and upward, and you read, in big red bold letters, Sidon River (rio=river Sidon, lothic condition, visible) and next from it, to the right, you can see in "black bold letters" the Indian name of one town, Tecumseh, almost at the shore of Lake St. Clair, quite like the beginning of the “North Sea”: toward "north" lands that Tecumseh was protecting. Between points "C" and "D" was the crossing of the Sidon River, as detailed in the Book of Mormon. It is the smallest width possible for such river SID+ON, the great SID ("El Cid..."). There so many Lamanites died trying to cross the Sidon River to conquer the town of Manti (nowadays Detroit). Thus such crossing point was like a "Neck" of “waters”, the narrowest one, between "two lands" trying to close the river. One land is the Isthmus of Canada land (like a head, coming from Riplah Hill) and pressing waters of Sidon River against USA (Detroit), as if the trunk of human body. Savelli,I have a question. I've heard the Teancum/Tecumseh connection used before to support the Spalding Theory for Book of Mormon authorship. Do you have any proof that the Indians called this village "Tecumseh" before the man Tecumseh lived that fought in the War of 1812? The reason I ask is that proponents of the Spalding Theory say that the character Teancum was copied from Tecumseh that fought in the War of 1812, and that the village was named after him. Then, supposedly, Spalding/Rigdon copied both the man and the place named after him from the War of 1812. If you can actually prove that Tecumseh is a corruption of the word "Teancum" and that the village was called that prior to Tecumseh being killed, then that would go a long way in invalidating one of the points of the Vernal Holley map. I would really like to see any information you have about that.
SAVELLI Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Savelli, I have a question. I've heard the Teancum/Tecumseh connection used before to support the Spalding Theory for Book of Mormon authorship. Dear Sir BJW. I don't get into this "mess". Let's be more practical, as I had to be with my mapping/topographic company. A person comes with the description (memorial) of his ancestral grand-grand-father and he doesn’t know where it is located or sited.What he has is only somewhat vague description of the limits, written for some 300 years ago (?). Even there is not a map or sketch. It is mentioned the existence of some "features" and/or landmarks related to the limits of the farm and thus to its size and location.One limit is one old small cemetery named as TeANCUM in the memorial of farm limit deposited in the Public Notary Register.It is told that from the main cross at the TeANCUM cemetery there is a boundary line, making an angle of 20° 30´ from North to West that goes to the junction of two main rivers. And that passing in front of the TEANCUM cemetery, at 30m far from the main cross, there was a rural road, making an angle of 50°30' North to East, that goes to the junction of two roads at the distance of 2,000 ft. We may heard about many cemeteries in what should be located the "old unknown farm". We examine their possible locations in some good maps, as USGS maps. Some are eliminated quite easily. For others I come to the region, and ask to the very old people if they remember about the very ancient cemeteries and their location.One very old woman, of 100 years old, remembers about one cemetery named something like TECUM...? TEUM? TICUMS?Hum... That information she received from her grand-mother, already very aged, and worst, she was a "STUTTERED" woman... Maybe could be Teancum or Tecum?She told where it was located and that since very long ago it was not more in use. The name was given in honor from a very famous Indian warrior, from centuries ago.We went there with "topographic equipment". There was none written name on (corroded) plate or on the decaying walls of the cemetery... so old it was. Even the main cross at its center could not more be found. But the rural road in front of it yet survived, because it was in use. Not more traffic through it. We decided to make use of "topographic equipments", to measure some angles and distances. Also we had a GPS equipment for checking the results.We looked at the junction of rivers, we could easily "see" from the cemetery, and measured the "azimuth". Also we measured the "azimuth" of the road in front of the cemetery but the "old road junction" had disappeared for very long. None evidence of it. The other road was plowed and turned into wheat and soybean/corn plantations. Thus it was found the "farm TEANCUM", even if none plate with such name was found and even if we had "problems" with language corruption (as stuttering). But even it somebody, some 100 years painted the name TEANCUM over the walls of the "wrong cemetery", quite soon we will discover it is wrong and that the "farm" is not located there. The measurements and modern description will not fit with the old ones. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$What should be the right place for the landmark name "Tecumseh" (TeAncum?) on ground? Mainly if there are many possible locations for Tecumseh? And if the origin of the name Tecumseh is uncertain and without WRITTEN registers (record of names and history). Thus probably an ORAL transmission and corruption, since some so many and many centuries, made TeANCUM into Tecumseh, a common and widespread name that was given to some famous and quite modern person. As there was no Written registers, we could reason as if the modern corrupted name was "originated from nothing"....Think about the name SAB. SAB is already the corrupted spelling of SABaoth, The God of Heavenly Arm, Jehovah God (our Commandant God). You have the use of SAB instead of SABAOTH, as if for respect of not saying the "full name" of God...Some exception and corruption: ELISABETH = EL + I + SABeTH = EL(God) + I(my, male, man) + SABaoTH (replaces "e") = Jehovah Man God.The corruption is quite like in TeANCUM.Look at the Book of Mormon for ISABEL, the prostitute. I + SAB + EL = I (my, man) + SABaoth(Jehovah) + EL(God). God Jehovah Man (or Mine). As TeANCUM is from Greek language (as SABELLI = Nephitic came from it). Also the same corruption of SAB.TE is corruption from TEo (=EL=God) and ANCUM is from Greek word.It would means alike "ankôn". "Ankûn" could be "knee" of "endlessly wide size?). Infinite God, "Endless God".Look at SAVELLI (my surname) = SAVELI (double LL is from Hebrew rule)SABELLI = SAVELLI SABELI = SAVELI (original spelling, it changes "B" by "V" in century 2 after Christ, language corruption).SABERI, SABER = SABELLI in Persian Empire up to today (they don't have "L" and replaced it by "R")SABERIah = corruption of SABERI for use in INDIASABELIev = corruption of SABELI for use in Russia (before Christ), etc.TeANCUM is like TEO-ANCUM, UNLIMITED GOD, INFINITE GOD. = el ancumKing TeoDOCIO = TeoDocile (roman) = God's Obedient.TEOCALLI = TEO C ALLI TEO = GOD, ALLI (=ELLI) = AL + I (My God, in Arab) = My God (ALLAH) is God. Mexico pyramid.TEOtiHUACan, Mexico pyramids. With best personal regards, sincerely yours, Savelli
SAVELLI Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) Geography of Book of Mormon starts at the beginning of 1st Nephi, with the information they were able to speak in EGYPTIAN LANGUAGE.That's so great GEOgraphic information they came from Egypt, as very rich persons. As result of having done (built) a great contract to King Pharaoh Nechoh II. The construction of a huge and long navigation channel ("restoring it is more correct") linking Nile River with Red Sea.Passing through Bitter Lakes. See Jew USA historian, Will Durant, History of Civilization, about that. And others I received from Egypt.Thus it is natural that LERRY (Lehi in English) and Nefi (Nephi in English) had learned to read, speak and write with perfection the Egyptian Language.And Ishmael was an Arab, partner in the bussiness for building such Channel that Greek Herodutus famous historian wrote about it (century latter).The channel besides allowing heavy and wide and deep and heavy ships and SAIL SHIPS navigation (Greek and Phoenician design, built in Egypt),and also military vessels, served for the purposes of IRRIGATING LANDS that were given to nefites live in Egypt. That lands are in the old maps,assigned as being "nefites' property". Thus nefites were many and influent in Egyptian society.As if to build hydroelectrics (and big roads), you make a "central town for the workers live in". Sometimes such temporary town become permanent ones. NEFIch = NEPHIch (property=ch of NEFI, town for Nefites) was one such town. See it in the next map, in the Left side. A big/thick red line with arrow upward is pointing to word NepHch. It is next to such artificial channel,of Nephi's time, restored for supply water to SUEZ Navigation Channal, with water (for navigation) coming from Nile River. Thus the same design from Nephi's days. You can "see" it is written "Nefich = NEFIch" next to such artificial navigation/irrigation channel bringinguing water from the left side, from the Nile River. And then water goes toward right direction, to the Ismailia town, ISHMAIL TOWN, the town for the ARABS (Ishmael is the other Abraham's son, very blessed). Thus NEFI and ISHMAEL were together in the start of Book of Mormon and remains together (as town) today.And ISHMAIL TOWN of Egypt became so largest and important town of Egypt, and Nephich remained just a "village". Thus nowadays the "urban limits" of Ishmael town includes NEPHIch, that became just a neighborhood of Ishmael town. Nedfich name changed to NAfiCH, according some more modern maps. The other map, in the right side, shows the existence of a LAND FOR NEPHITES, in Ireland, limited by the 4 tallest peaks of mountains of Ireland, named "NEPHIN = Neph + In=place for living, as in name of many Hotels". In Nephin area yet it is spoken some remains of Nephitic language mixed with Celtic and English language. And some Hebrew principles (as from of old biblical poetry/chantigs) are yet used in making their quite modern poetry. See what means a name they use:JoaCHin = Joa CH in JOA = "core" of name CH=property IN=place. The place for the JOA's. John = Joan = João = corruptions from JOA-on, great JOA. JOAna is the "na"=humble JOA (female). JOAona, JOAzONA is a woman JOA that is very "big, strong" (ONA=big, as in LIAHona, grea importance,big LIAH=Jacob's wife)http://www.mediafire...37ff43af66g.jpgWith best personal regards, sincerely yours, Savelli = SAB ELLI Edited July 17, 2011 by SAVELLI
SAVELLI Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 What was written on the plate propaganda that the Church used on early days, as if with GOLD characters over a Black background? The purpose of such information, from Anthon's CARACTORS, was not to provide a "message", through a "text", but a collection of the distinct type of characters according big size and small sizedcharacters (as we do nowadays) and according several styles that had been used to writeover the Book of Mormon, as if we have today with the "fonts" of Characters. For very long the Jews scientists, as of N.Y., translated characters similar to those.And for almost 10 years (?) I translated such list of CARACTORS (as the one on Book of Mormon, Anthon's).Even published among the Jewish people and scientists. Quite open minded, are the scientists. Let us "try", also.http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/43da258f0a1cb46fefdac4b8a4223c79371cb46168d3be5da73d854b42542bd86g.jpgWith best personal regards, sincerely yours, Savelli = SAB ELLI
bjw Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Dear Sir BJW. I don't get into this "mess". Let's be more practical, as I had to be with my mapping/topographic company. A person comes with the description (memorial) of his ancestral grand-grand-father and he doesn’t know where it is located or sited.What he has is only somewhat vague description of the limits, written for some 300 years ago (?). Even there is not a map or sketch. It is mentioned the existence of some "features" and/or landmarks related to the limits of the farm and thus to its size and location.One limit is one old small cemetery named as TeANCUM in the memorial of farm limit deposited in the Public Notary Register.It is told that from the main cross at the TeANCUM cemetery there is a boundary line, making an angle of 20° 30´ from North to West that goes to the junction of two main rivers. And that passing in front of the TEANCUM cemetery, at 30m far from the main cross, there was a rural road, making an angle of 50°30' North to East, that goes to the junction of two roads at the distance of 2,000 ft. We may heard about many cemeteries in what should be located the "old unknown farm". We examine their possible locations in some good maps, as USGS maps. Some are eliminated quite easily. For others I come to the region, and ask to the very old people if they remember about the very ancient cemeteries and their location.One very old woman, of 100 years old, remembers about one cemetery named something like TECUM...? TEUM? TICUMS?Hum... That information she received from her grand-mother, already very aged, and worst, she was a "STUTTERED" woman... Maybe could be Teancum or Tecum?She told where it was located and that since very long ago it was not more in use. The name was given in honor from a very famous Indian warrior, from centuries ago.We went there with "topographic equipment". There was none written name on (corroded) plate or on the decaying walls of the cemetery... so old it was. Even the main cross at its center could not more be found. But the rural road in front of it yet survived, because it was in use. Not more traffic through it. We decided to make use of "topographic equipments", to measure some angles and distances. Also we had a GPS equipment for checking the results.We looked at the junction of rivers, we could easily "see" from the cemetery, and measured the "azimuth". Also we measured the "azimuth" of the road in front of the cemetery but the "old road junction" had disappeared for very long. None evidence of it. The other road was plowed and turned into wheat and soybean/corn plantations. Thus it was found the "farm TEANCUM", even if none plate with such name was found and even if we had "problems" with language corruption (as stuttering). But even it somebody, some 100 years painted the name TEANCUM over the walls of the "wrong cemetery", quite soon we will discover it is wrong and that the "farm" is not located there. The measurements and modern description will not fit with the old ones. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$What should be the right place for the landmark name "Tecumseh" (TeAncum?) on ground? Mainly if there are many possible locations for Tecumseh? And if the origin of the name Tecumseh is uncertain and without WRITTEN registers (record of names and history). Thus probably an ORAL transmission and corruption, since some so many and many centuries, made TeANCUM into Tecumseh, a common and widespread name that was given to some famous and quite modern person. As there was no Written registers, we could reason as if the modern corrupted name was "originated from nothing"....Think about the name SAB. SAB is already the corrupted spelling of SABaoth, The God of Heavenly Arm, Jehovah God (our Commandant God). You have the use of SAB instead of SABAOTH, as if for respect of not saying the "full name" of God...Some exception and corruption: ELISABETH = EL + I + SABeTH = EL(God) + I(my, male, man) + SABaoTH (replaces "e") = Jehovah Man God.The corruption is quite like in TeANCUM.Look at the Book of Mormon for ISABEL, the prostitute. I + SAB + EL = I (my, man) + SABaoth(Jehovah) + EL(God). God Jehovah Man (or Mine). As TeANCUM is from Greek language (as SABELLI = Nephitic came from it). Also the same corruption of SAB.TE is corruption from TEo (=EL=God) and ANCUM is from Greek word.It would means alike "ankôn". "Ankûn" could be "knee" of "endlessly wide size?). Infinite God, "Endless God".Look at SAVELLI (my surname) = SAVELI (double LL is from Hebrew rule)SABELLI = SAVELLI SABELI = SAVELI (original spelling, it changes "B" by "V" in century 2 after Christ, language corruption).SABERI, SABER = SABELLI in Persian Empire up to today (they don't have "L" and replaced it by "R")SABERIah = corruption of SABERI for use in INDIASABELIev = corruption of SABELI for use in Russia (before Christ), etc.TeANCUM is like TEO-ANCUM, UNLIMITED GOD, INFINITE GOD. = el ancumKing TeoDOCIO = TeoDocile (roman) = God's Obedient.TEOCALLI = TEO C ALLI TEO = GOD, ALLI (=ELLI) = AL + I (My God, in Arab) = My God (ALLAH) is God. Mexico pyramid.TEOtiHUACan, Mexico pyramids. With best personal regards, sincerely yours, SavelliThanks for the explanation. It does make sense how the name could get corrupted over time. Its sounds like you've done a lot of research on this.
SAVELLI Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Geography of Book of Mormon starts at the beginning of 1st Nephi, with the information they were able to speak in EGYPTIAN LANGUAGE.That's so great GEOgraphic information they came from Egypt, as very rich persons. Probably Lehi and Nephi bought things like Book of Abraham and Book of Moses in Egypt, making use of their wealth.And knowing very well the Egyptian language, they translated such literature from Egyptian to Nephitic language.Thus their translation to English language was made from Nephitic language (based on CARACTORS) and not in hieroglyphs.And the Egyptian mummy were bought, at great price, to provide the Egyptian drawings (very corrupted ones)as they were not included (in small sized gold plates) in the translated material to Nephitic language. Thus the mummy materialwas just for "illustration purposes", rather than translation. Because they were from a later and much more corrupted religious text and age.They were translated into modernly (using Champolion's procedure. They have nothing to do with translated material (from Nephitic's caractors): only minorly corrupted.Next is the URL showing where it was sited the town of NEPHI's, NEFIch, in Egypt. Click on it to see a much enlarged map.http://www.mediafire...37ff43af66g.jpgCould we provide a broader viewing map of NEFI's movements in Africa and Arabian Peninsula? All as part of a much broader Geography of Book of Mormon?For sure. Let us examine what comes next.. Click on next URL to see such next map very enlarged.http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/42ad7f65c4a07c6b1bb932b1447d81680475d1862d61625c2d7ed4131a4f00c46g.jpg Examine above map. In the very left upper corner you can see the arrival of Nephites families (not only Nephi as one person; it is like Sabelli: many persons). They came in sail ships from Italy, through the Island of Corsage(?) and Sardenha=Sardinia and arriving and Tunes and then coasting Africa up to enter the Nile River and NEFICH. It is the pathway shown with brilliant green line. A direct route through Calabria and Sicilia was very hostile, because the Sabelli had no domain over them (with Greek and Phoenician colonies over there). You can see that the thin green brilliant line continues to the right and comes down, a large distance, to the very bottom. It is the pathway of Greek sail ships and Phoenician sail ships, build in Egypt with technology provided by such nations, during the kingdom of Pharaoh Nechoh II (some 600 B.C.). This Pharaoh decided to make a competition of Greeks and Phoenicians, with their fleets coasting Africa, all the way, to return through Mediterranean Sea and entering into Nile River and with the sail ships returning to NEFIch(?). That is the account, in part provided by Herodotus, the very great Greek Historian who had been in Egypt some 1 or 2 centuries latter. And somebody provided me such information from Egypt. You can see where it is located NEFIch in the first map, on top of this provided/uploaded posted material. See it. In this second map, it is all schematic about Nefich location. But from it they walked to Jerusalem (see it in Blue line, going upward. From Jerusalem they came to the very end of the Bay of the Gulf of Aqaba, in nowadays harbor of Israel and also harbor in the days of King David and Solomon. It was the town where the Lerri's (Lehi) family stayed camped for many days, and where it is the Laman valley and the Lemuel River. From such harbor, Ezion-Geber (at Lehi's days), they started to walk along the south margin of the Gulf of Aqaba, and when they arrived at the margin of the Red Sea (more or less), it was the place named as CHASER (it is wrong in Book of Mormon, as SHAZER, which is only a "phonetic translation": means and teaches nothing).Then they walked along the east margin of the Red Sea, up to the town of Meccah, for the religion of Ishmael's partner. There they got reinforcements and provisions and support to travel toward EAST of MECCAH, for so many years. Many detailed maps available on that.Thus they arrived in MASIRAH region, in the Gulf of Masirah. It was known of sail ships with merchants since long, mainly the Island Masirah which is volcanic nature and has so many minerals and had been mined to provide metals. It was in the way from a Sabelli's named town in India to Mecca town, and from that it could go in caravans by camels or could be by sail ships through Red Sea to the Egypt. The great dream of King Pharaoh II was to have such huge navigation in good condition to navigate big and deep and heavy sail ships. Quite like modern SUEZ Channel. With that Egypt would get the monopoly of trade between Europe, Mediterranean with Asia and Persians... Masirah is a sabellian corrupted name. It is MASI = MOSI = MOSE(s): corruption was just A by O), and in Hebrew is the same thing (MS).MASIRAH is the same as MOSI-R-AH, thus MOSIAH, with R you can have an order to follow Moses: cross the big water... Then you have that the NEPHITES, and also the MULEKITES+ARABS in another and identical sail ship (caravel type) built in the same place of first, sailed coasting Africa as Phoenicians and Greeks had done before the eyes of Nephites yet living in Egypt. At the horn Cape Town, it was the terrible "bad weather, torment, storm" described in Book of Mormon, and with them using the thick and strong ropes (required for the sail ship CANVAS propulsion and control) being used to tie up Nephi. After that, good weather condition for coasting Africa, west coast, up to some point they departed straight up to North America. One to the Liberty Land. There was not yet the Statue to point out them that they had arrived at the Liberty Land. What about the THICK BLUE LINE coming from China? Coasting it and India and arriving in MASIRAH harbor (gulf, island) and then following the same pathway? It appears they arrived in my farm... (How could? how dare? how know?) in Brazil! And that appeared to explain what took place in Guatemala to Mexico, as more Asiatic people and language and more barbarian behavior, like from the Huns and Mongols.In fact the Mongols married the Sabelli and became pacified and their villages nowadays are named "Koch" (half of the surname of my son...) which is a Hebrew word from Babylon exile, and means a sad thing for that Jews. Because of "Koch" they "suffered" and refused to return, to build the Zorobabel's temple. The companion of "Koch" is "ake or ache" (Hebrew word, also), thus my son is named KOCHake. Maybe KAZAKISTAN is from KOCHAKistan...See where it is sited Babel's tower (in Babylon...). Toward the NORTH of it was the pathway of the Jaredites, to board in sailships in Russia's North Sea (almost Polar). You can see the other group moved toward Asia, toward China (Red-Skins) and India (brown skin), who provided some change of skin color to the lamanites and lamanitized nephites, and some changes in the eyes of some of them, and in other features. And the extreme ferocity, as if from African wild bees in contact with us and European bees. With best personal regards, sincerely yours, Savelli = SAB ELLI
SAVELLI Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Details of the end of the Journey of Lehi's group (including Nephi and the Ishmael's Arab family members) at the South Extremity of Arabian Peninsula at the place named MASIRAH, corruption of MASIAHR, MOSIAHR, MOSIAH + R (permutation is quite common in language, as to improve "phonetics").Also such end of Lehi's Journey is exactly the same for Mulekite's group, in which they were minority as boarded group members into a majority of Arabs people from Mecca.Could we provide a broader viewing map of NEFI's movements in Africa and Arabian Peninsula? All is part of a much broader Geography of Book of Mormon.For sure. Let us examine what comes next.. Click on next URL to see such next map very enlarged.http://www.mediafire...31a4f00c46g.jpgWe can see that the end of the Journey through the Arabian Peninsula was at the place named Abundance, with abundance vegetal life, of Mangroves mixed with all type of other vegetation and also plenty of other animal life, all providing plenty of food. On such subject you should red my report in:http://br.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/mormons_brasil/message/1400Click over the above URL and get into the Yahoo Group message. It is plenty of unconventional scientific messages that the LDS are not familiar with: quite full of bias.http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/7bc4d5eb7912e5e61135d3a7ded53b4a51ed62743393ce8587c5d4f4828c63e26g.jpgClick on above URL link to see very enlarged the MASIRAH = MOSIAH + R, the place (region) where the LEHI's caravan arrived (after 8 years of travel toward almost exact East direction) at the sea shore and pitched tents by the seashore in the Arabian Sea, in front of the Island Masirah. Between the seashore and such island is the channel used for navigation of sail ships, since very old and aged days, before Christ, transporting people and merchandise, between India+Pakistan (then only India) to Mecca. With possible stops at the Island Masirah. Because it has volcanic deposits of minerals that had been used since very old days, as to produce metals. It is the only case in South Arabian Peninsula, in thousand miles. Also the Island has some type of small young volcanic mountain, which in the very detailed US NAVY MAP, that I obtained, appears as "Lord Mount" (who told them?). You can see US landing field for jet airplanes is at the North extremity, as if a very huge battle ship for airplanes that is anchored in Masirah to combat the Terrorists and Terrorism and to impose US influence on them and on Arabs and protect petroleum. Maybe the other name in Masirah island is a corruption of the name "Magdalene" or something alike (quite like from a Greek name or Sabelli's name, also). You can see they arrived almost by exact EAST DIRECTION from Mecca town. There is no problem that Arabs had had good relationship with good Arabs and had priesthood from God. Think on Balaam (who deviated in the call of being a good prophet) and in Jethro, who provided the God's priesthood to Moses and also a daughter and many teachings. What is the problem if an Arab priest built the second Sail Ship and was the pilot of it to Canada, to ZarahEMLA, being guided by God with clear revelations as did Nephi? Biased people think they have the "monopoly".With best personal regards, sincerely yours, SAVELLI
Doctor Steuss Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) Click over previous (above) URL for you see the next following figure very enlarged and the characters and Caractors in great details:Again: How do you propose the Native Americans came to use a version of the Roman alphabet, and how does this theoretical use of the Roman alphabet support a historical Book of Mormon? Edited July 18, 2011 by Doctor Steuss
SAVELLI Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Again: How do you propose the Native Americans came to use a version of the Roman alphabet, and how does this theoretical use of the Roman alphabet support a historical Book of Mormon?Dear fellow.For sure I may have been speaking in Greek!I never told or heard that the Nephites knew or used the Roman standard characters or language. The Roman Empire used LATIN language and our nowadays MODERN characters (our "letters" A, B, C, D, E, F, g, h, i, j,etc. as you are reading them here...). The Nephites characters, that are in the document under the head title of "CARACTORS" list provided to "Anthon" (thus "Anthon's caractors"), by Joseph Smith who made a copy of them from looking at the Gold Plates, are totally distinct characters. Some of them remember us quite like the old standard Greek Characters mixed with the Phoenician Characters. And to be worst, the Sabellian Characters, that are the Nephitic Characters (they are EXACTLY THE SAME, as they were found in tombs in Italy, even very nearby Rome... in some 600 B.C.), used something very "strange and unique", never used by Greek Characters. They were written (the words) according Hebrew rules, as from right to left and Hebrew grammar rules (as making "doubled" the consonants in proper names when between vowel sounds as in SabeLLi, king U "ZZ" i ah, etc) and more strange, it was usual the characters were written "by the mirror image". They yet didn't know about the Book of Mormon and the "travel" of Jews to USA, to N.Y.As you can see, the NEPHITIC CHARACTERS have "nothing to do" with the Roman Empire Characters, that are exactly the same our nowadays characters. Thus none such "Roman Empire Character" was found in America Continent, mainly among the Nephites in Nephites Kingdoms.You should read my posted material, in this Forum, about the "Gold Plates". You would get more useful information on how it was written the Nephitic texts and characters. In fact you can "examine" them, as collected in USA from Archeological sites (as from Indian burial places, the work that Joseph Smith was doing...), with Jewish organizations and even in Public Museums. Not with LDS: they don't give values to them if from USA and Canada (is it what appears due "fears" of unknown?). Indians from the region of N.Y. were able to mine copper and have it in metallic objects. It is told even it was found a “scroll” made with a very thin sheet of pure copper with a written Indian text, of Indian of legitimate Jew origin from Israel, from Judah descendence. But none picture or information was provided, besides that legendary. True (gossip)?M.Sc. from Univ. California, Berkely, 1978, professor since 1968SAVELLI
Doctor Steuss Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Dear fellow.For sure I may have been speaking in Greek!I never told or heard that the Nephites knew or used the Roman standard characters or language. Hi Savelli,Thank you for getting to my question. Below is where you have proposed that Native Americans were using a version of the Roman alphabet "2,000 years ago." Since above you say that you have never said that the Nephites knew or used the Roman alphabet, but below you state that Native Americans did; are you saying the Nephites are of no relation to Native Americans? http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/cc1eb62bdf60b7c21be43b13c0c0778260bcaba60ee7872d3d1c993ccb1a309b5g.jpg Click on the URL and see this drawing very enlarged on how USA Indians wrote like we do 2,000 years ago and the geographic use of it.
SAVELLI Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 If the Sabelli's = Nephitic's characters (caractors) came to live and spread in North America (USA and Canada), it is because they "travelled" from the Old Continent to the New World, to the New Continent. Thus, Nephitic = Sabellic in there, in the Old Continent, moved out. It was the final step of "transformation" of the Egyptian language. That was "reformed" by steps, into several Egyptian language versions, themselves.And then it was transformed = reformed (very simplified, into a very compact language and characters for quick use by traders) into Phoenician (Joel 3:6), and Greek language (Joel 3:6). And these two were the final "reformed Egyptian languages". But they were mixed with Hebrew language to generated the "Nephitic language". A language of "slaves" in captivity, in Greece (Joel 3:6). Such language, of slaves, spread in the "diaspora" to many places and nations. Even to Asia nations (as India, China, Japan) and Europe (as to Italia and Rome region), so many centuries before Christ. In Italy it was generated many dialects of Sabelli (Nephitic) known as Sabine and Osco (sub)-languages. Nephitic was a unique language. With characters ("letters") like Greek, but different. Because of use of horizontal and/or vertical "mirrors" to generate mirror images of characters: very new and distinct characters (caractors). See my posted messagens in this Forum for Gold Plates. See that use for the two types of "L" characters on the name of one person written on a tomb, in some 2500 B.C., in Orvieto, very near Roman, in a complex of old Tombs. It was used some type of Sabine's characters. Also the new Israelite language, the NEPHITIC (Sabellian = Israelite, see it SAB ELLI = My God Jehovh = Just an Israelite say that, includes Osco, Sabine, Piscentine, etc.), was written from right to left (as Hebrew) and with hebrew grammar rules. A very unique language. For sure Nephitic didn't start in Rome or in Roman Empire. And it has nothing to do with LATIN language and Characters of Roman Empire, that started just some 4 centuries B.C. with the complete destruction of Nephitic language in Italy. You should consider about where the Nephites departed from the Arabian Peninsula and in some 600 B.C. At that time there was not Roman Empire and our known Roman Characters (letters) as we use nowadays. Think on that. And reason about the place of their departure: very far away from Rome or future Rome Empire and its influence.Details of the end of the Journey of Lehi's group (including Nephi and the Ishmael's Arab family members) at the South Extremity of Arabian Peninsula at the place named MASIRAH, corruption of MASIAHR, MOSIAHR, MOSIAH + R (permutation is quite common in language, as to improve "phonetics").Also such end of Lehi's Journey is exactly the same for Mulekite's group, in which they were minority as boarded group members into a majority of Arabs people from Mecca.The enlarged details related to the proposed site for "Bountiful" as one key Geographic component of the Book of Mormon, as seen from a satellite view picture.http://www.mediafire...0d821781f6g.jpgClick on the URL to examine such so desert place in a very enlarged map version. Look at a small reduced map version in the left upper corner.. You can see Sail Ships coming (and going) from KAR - ACH - I (a typical Sabelli's = Nephitic name) in Pakistan (it was India up to recently, under Britsh domain). ACH - I is the Hebrew surname of my son (from mother side) from Babylon exile days, for the Jews who refused to return to Israel, as to build the temple. Other their names (title) was Kochi. Also there is a coastal town KOCHI in India... Both means the same thing: an "intense and quite diffuse pain" (quite like of shame). KOCH AKE, KOCH ACHI, etc. Thus such merchandise could enter as through MASQAT, and then through land caravans, as to Mecca town, a center for distribution to other caravans. Or could travel by water, by further sail ships, coasting south Arabian Peninsula (passing through "Masirah Island") and ADEN, and entering Red Sea and arriving in Mecca. As nowadays, the danger was pirates attack. Also the same problem with land caravans. Lehi's group followed a pathway that was intermediate (unfeasible) between land caravan to Mecca and the sail shipping of merchandise from India to Mecca coasting Arabian Sea and then through Red Sea. It was the East Sea pathway: astronomic pathway. It is possible that the Arabian priest returned fast by the water merchants route: by some small sailship to Mecca. He waited for the Muletikes caravan arrival in Mecca. As if the one brought Joseph to Egypt, by Arab merchants. You may examine it also through the use of Goof Eath Map and similar web sites. Try:1st: http://maps.google.c...hl=pt-BR&tab=wl2nd http://maps.google.c...hl=pt-BR&tab=wl3rd http://maps.google.c...hl=pt-BR&tab=wl4th http://maps.google.c...hl=pt-BR&tab=wlWith best personal regards, sincerely yours, SAVELLI
SAVELLI Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Hi Savelli,Thank you for getting to my question. Below is where you have proposed that Native Americans were using a version of the Roman alphabet "2,000 years ago." Since above you say that you have never said that the Nephites knew or used the Roman alphabet, but below you state that Native Americans did; are you saying the Nephites are of no relation to Native Americans?Doctor SteussI think the next material already uploaded in this Forum, on the Gold Plate subject of research, will provide you some answers.The comparison you provided is very valid, between the CARACTORS (characters) used on Gold Plates used to write the Book of Mormon, and the later corrupted versions of the Nephitic language, after the collapse of the Nephitic Empire. You can see that some characters were missing and others very deteriorated, mainly toward Rocky Mountain. As the refuge intended by good White Lamanites as Zelph, the last Warrior. Who had his skelleton discovered at the margin of Illinois River. The explanation (revelation) was provived by prophet Joseph Smith. That he was an Indian well known from Cumorah Hill (near N.Y. town) to Rocky Mountain (thus Nethitic Empire was quite large, not being in Mexico or Guatemala).Other comparison, that is the one you are willing to have, is between the way it was written words in Nephitic Characters in Gold Plates (for Book of Mormon, in USA and Canada, see Joseph explanation about White Lamanite Zelph, in relation to Geography of Nephitic Empire...) and the Sabelli's Characters in Italy, engraved (carved) on rock in Tumbs, in the place named Orvieto (130 km far from Rome), of 500 B.C. and discovered in 1830 (year first time Book of Mormon was published... no way to falsify names).Tomb in Orvieto, Italy, of some 2,500 years old, discovered in 1830, exactly when Book of Mormon became public and public knew about the Gold Plates... and about Tomb inscriptions. http://www.mediafire...e9c51f2a35g.jpghttp://img3.mediafire.com/222d0098cc8329eac02bb265f4515c60042faeac6aa59ad8a01a0c0e9c51f2a35g.jpgOn top so may Tombs found in 1830 in Italy, some 130 km far from Rome, nearby village of Nep. Lower picture is of the entrance of one generic tomb, as they have the name of the deceased person (of 2,500 years ago) written = carved on the upper part of the entrance door of the tomb. We are to see these characters (in fact they are the "caractors" of Joseph Smith ! ! ! copied from Gold Plates at 1,700 years later). They will be seen much “enlarged” and we will translate them into modern characters (as used in USA, Italy, Brazil, etc.), as you can see next. 5th figure (in fact it was posted in other message...):http://www.mediafire...9f57c09bb6g.jpghttp://img9.mediafire.com/88dabbca9cf702b886e3bcd95a913ca48b641763dfb3d41236e61269f57c09bb6g.jpgYou can see that above the original inscription, carved on stone, at tomb door entrance, is the translation made using nephitic language. Thus using the Anthon's caractors prepared by Joseph Smith's hands from copying the gold plates. The characters = caractors fit perfectly. Also the names used in “ancient Sabelli’s language” (please don't mix up with etruscan: it is like to think Brazilian language is a mixture of Spanish, Portuguese, Indians dialects, Phoenicians, etc.). You can see that below the original inscription, carved on stone, is the translation made using Sabelli’s characters as in their several dialects, from different Geographic positions and from distinct time (period of times, ages). You can see from 2nd (second) figure of Yahoo Group, that almost all the characters we can see carved on stone, are related to the 5th century before Christ and such characters are related to Rome’s people.The Sabine language is older than Nephitic language (just compare characters...) and it is related to the early settlements in ROME (see 2md figure, second column with characters from right to left: it is Sabine, which is a sub-tribe from the Sabelli's people and language. Thus Sabine is a "branch" of Sabelli. As Nephites are just a branch of Sabelli’s (latter on) also... And then the first column in the right is the one that fits better to the name carved on Rock. You can see it is Sabina Tiberina and Adriatica, thus Roman Sabin also. Thus name of deceased man, carved on rock, is in Roman dialect (from Rome’s region). And they fit perfectly with the Book of Mormon method of translation of characters using the Anthon's “caractor” as if "the rosetta Stone" from Champolion. See Figure 4th en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_StoneMy translated Anthon's “caractors” is not the most updated general version general uploaded in web: for so many years it was made. Probably more reliable one is found in Jewish sites. Also it was possible to obtain a great deal of objects, from Jewish origin, of the age of Christ and before and little latter, written/carved in Sabellian language (Nephitic alike, corrupted). Instead of making a GEOGRAPHIC comparison of Characters used in BOOK OF MORMON from 3 distinct places in Nephitic Kingdom (across USA), as you used in your comments, as BoM x Indians of Newark X Indians of Los Lunas (Geographically very separated),You are interested in the GEOGRAPHIC COMPARISON of Nephitic characters (of good quality) from New Continent (USA and Canada, caractors) with the corresponding ones from the Old Continent (as these ones from Italy: "before boarding" to America Continent, before sail shiping in Masirah Gulf):http://img8.mediafire.com/7763fe71bbe68c9fdfb66547833eb5809cd2063b85732f08fee8613d878e26636g.jpgYou can see the results were absolutelly the same, identicall. But it was clearly explained that the Sabelli's language and characters were not Italian, but that they came from Greece, from the Israelites that arrived there sold and transported by the Phoenicians to be Greek slaves (Joel 3:6). It is very clear that such Characters found in Italy have Nothing to do with Italy or Rome. They were never created or invented there. It arrived there... In word Alma, see how strange it could be the "L" characters for the Sabellian language. It is the result of the use of "mirrors". Something very "strange" to fool the Greeks... With best personal regards, sincerely yours, <br style=""> <br style=""> SAVELLI
SAVELLI Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 WHERE WAS IT LOCATED HAGOTH'S FACTORY OF HUGE ("JUMBO SIZED") SAIL SHIPS?ALMA 63:5.WHERE IT WAS BOUNTIFUL LAND? LAND BOUNTIFUL?WEST SEA? EAST SEA?WHERE IT WAS SITED THE "narrow neck" that a nephite would require some 1.5 day to walk it from East Sea to West Sea?Was such East and West Sea salted Water (is it written that somewhere? Where?) or is it like SEA Galilea? Or SEA OF BRASS at the Temple entrance and using SALT WATER or that is only for SALT LAKE TEMPLES? I guess in there all baptism "sea tanks" they use only "fresh water"... and they have none Sea of Brass, as I heard about. Or could? I stayed twice in SLC but I don't know about.http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/12642d29cc7c752a1f1e36cde815b6d021046e412c7076267125a589ee87d5cb6g.jpgPlease, enlarge very much to see "details of such drawing" and see better Hagoth's factory site, because the detail is quite small to see without enlargement, as in the standard drawing, that comes next. In the above drawing, where it is shown a dashed line with ONTARIO above it and NEW YORK below it, it the deepest of the Erie Lake, and thus it is the Limit. But it is also where it is considered flowing the Detroit River up it becomes the Niagara River. Thus Detroit River, which is SIDON RIVER, is the SIDON RIVER "LENTHIC" flowing under the Lake Erie, under such position. This is the modern and environmental teaching. Thus Jordan river continues to exist, as Jordan River LOTHIC, flowing under the SEA GALILEE... As you can see HAGOTH's FACTORY of HUGE SAIL SHIPS, mainly for CARGO TRANSPORTATION (the disgrace was when it was added "alive cargo, of humans", as they disturbed the center of gravity and the metacenter positions, making the equilibrium unstable), using WIND, as in ships since the very old days. Isaiah described a sailship. The HAGOTH's FACTORY was at the entrance of the HUGE ARTIFICIAL CHANNEL, known as Welland, which links Erie Lake to the Ontario Lake (or West Sea to the East Sea) and at the place where the Hagoth's factory was built. Exactly because such was the shortest distance between Erie Lake and Ontario Lake. Thus the cost of building such huge and wide and deep channel was the minimum possible. And the channel was build for huge navigation, of intense traffic of mainly CARGO SHIPS of very great load transported, as of grains and minerals and manufactured goods, coming from as far as the CHICAGO region. Hagoth's sailship facture is at the right side of Welland channel entrance (as seen on the figure), on the place named "Port Colborne" (or something like that). There are more drawing on that. You can see the original very small river had its pathway changed to some type of dike, a place to build ships and make them float when ready. Enlarge it.The region as shown in above map is not more existing. It was intensely changed, with deposition of materials and earth movements, probably to control erosion at the entrance of the Welland channel. We can see this comparing the U.S.G.S. aerofotogrametric map (made by the U.S. usng air photos and some type of precision topography) with what is shown in satelite fotographies. Probably the Hagoth's factory would be located in this point and enlarged satelite picture:http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&q=port+colborne,+canada&rlz=1W1ADFA_pt-BR&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89d33125c46ca209:0x8222e76e59ecba10,Port+Colborne,+ON,+Canada&gl=br&ei=eTEmTqO9JcG50AHH36HqCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CBAQ8gEwAQIt is the very enlarged view of the ground place for the possible location of Hagoth's factory, based on previous above U.S.G.S. "OLD" map.http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&q=port+colborne,+canada&rlz=1W1ADFA_pt-BR&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89d33125c46ca209:0x8222e76e59ecba10,Port+Colborne,+ON,+Canada&gl=br&ei=eTEmTqO9JcG50AHH36HqCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CBAQ8gEwAQNow you can see the Welland Navigation channel in the left and you can see the huge earthfill movement (deposition of material) that was done next to it and toward the Hagoth's Sea factory that is at the very center of the satelite picture. You can see also the small river (creek) that is coming (flowing) to feed the Hagoth's sail ship factory, having two small black ponds in the way. http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&q=port+colborne,+canada&rlz=1W1ADFA_pt-BR&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89d33125c46ca209:0x8222e76e59ecba10,Port+Colborne,+ON,+Canada&gl=br&ei=eTEmTqO9JcG50AHH36HqCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CBAQ8gEwAQIn the lower part of the satelite picture you can see the Lake Erie, the West Sea. You can see also why the Hagoth's sail ship factory received deposition of material (probably sand and crushed stone): to build such structure, far from the margin of Lake Erie, probably to control the entrance of PLATES OF FLOATING ICE into Welland Channel. http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&q=port+colborne,+canada&rlz=1W1ADFA_pt-BR&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89d33125c46ca209:0x8222e76e59ecba10,Port+Colborne,+ON,+Canada&gl=br&ei=eTEmTqO9JcG50AHH36HqCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CBAQ8gEwAQThis (above) is as if the helicopter had rised to greater altitude over the "sea" west, yet remaining exactly over "Hagoth's sailship factory".http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&q=port+colborne,+canada&rlz=1W1ADFA_pt-BR&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89d33125c46ca209:0x8222e76e59ecba10,Port+Colborne,+ON,+Canada&gl=br&ei=eTEmTqO9JcG50AHH36HqCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CBAQ8gEwAQWe raised a little more. We almost can see from one SEA to the other SEA: thus from Lade Erie to the Lake Ontario.Next, below, is a greater step in elevation:http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&q=port+colborne,+canada&rlz=1W1ADFA_pt-BR&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89d33125c46ca209:0x8222e76e59ecba10,Port+Colborne,+ON,+Canada&gl=br&ei=eTEmTqO9JcG50AHH36HqCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CBAQ8gEwAQAs you can see, to the left is the RIVER SIDON "LOTHIC" becoming "LETHIC", thus becoming with flow "visible". Thus turning with the flow of "NIAGARA RIVER", at the town of BUFFALO. Which was a NEPHITIC town and Book of Mormon describes a FEROCIOUS BATTLE that took place in Buffalo. I stayed there and I made a strategic map of how the battle took place, using topographic good quality maps (USGS). Nice. There were some "suspended bridges" to cross Niagara River downstream Niagara Falls (quite like Suspended Bridge of Peru, but much greater, and I enjoyed as engineer and scientist). Look where is the Big "A" under/into a colored "red" filling (I don't trust my colors). Such "A" is the position of the entrance of the very "HUGE CHANNEL, WELLAND" (for huge international navigation, and also for hydroeletrict generation, for USA and Canada at the margin of lake Ontario).http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&q=port+colborne,+canada&rlz=1W1ADFA_pt-BR&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89d33125c46ca209:0x8222e76e59ecba10,Port+Colborne,+ON,+Canada&gl=br&ei=eTEmTqO9JcG50AHH36HqCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CBAQ8gEwAQPlease, click over the above URL. We must examine such GOOGLE MAP. It is very important. As you can see, with that point that is coupled to the Big "A" under/into a colored "red" filling, it is the place where is sitted the HAGOTH's sail-ship factory and also is the entrance of the huge WELLAND's navigation channel (and for hydroelectric generation). You can see that from "A", at Lake Erie to the Ontario Lake, the distance is minimal (exactly because of this the so expensive channel was built there...AT THE MOST NARROW OF THE NECK OF LAND). http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&q=port+colborne,+canada&rlz=1W1ADFA_pt-BR&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89d33125c46ca209:0x8222e76e59ecba10,Port+Colborne,+ON,+Canada&gl=br&ei=eTEmTqO9JcG50AHH36HqCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CBAQ8gEwAQThe helicopter moved even to greater elevation. You can see that the Lake Ontario in fact is the Sea East, because it is sited TOWARD EAST of the most narrow neck between both SEA. And the Lake Erie is the Sea West because it is sited TOWARD WEST of the most narrow neck betwee both SEA. Look at them and conclude it. And see how "narrow" is the NECK in point "A", at the HAGOTH's SAIL SHIP FACTORY, when going from WEST SEA to EAST SEA. It is the least distance possible. With so huge sail ship it was possible to transport huge amounts of the "easily available wood" at the shore line of WEST SEA (LAKE ERIE) to CHICAGO (Lake Michigan) where it was most needed and valuable, at the "Head of River Sidon, which is Chicago's Region". Thus Erie's region became DESOLATED or DEFORESTED more intenselly. And without FOREST you don't have wild life. But the FOREST around Lake Ontario (bountiful) was very difficult to obtain and transport it to Lake Michigan. Because of the distance and the level difference. It was a hard work. They had no machinery and not strong animals for such task. And sail ships could not climb the water falls... I guess this was the problem. They were to use only wood from margins, as to generate trails and towns. With best personal regards, sincerely yours, SAVELLI
Nenahnezad Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 I appreciate this thread and Savelli's comments. A long read but a very interesting one from a brother in Brazil. ¡Obrigado!As for Savelli's Detroit (french for "narrow") location, this article http://apps.detnews....ndex.php?id=167 indicates extensive mounds near Detroit, now a park in downtown Detroit near the Rouge River which flows into the Detroit river."One, the "Great Mound on the Rouge" in Delray at the junction of the Rouge and Detroit rivers, captured the fancy of early historians. It was 400 feet long, 200 feet wide and 40 feet high. It was so packed with bones that they were easily exposed by wandering cattle."Article also has a pic of a discovered skull suggesting knowledge of brain surgery. Earlier in this "discussion" it was mentioned Signature Books would be publishing Elder Talmage's diary, by 2015. It's too bad none us will ever see it, because the proponents of a Guatemala/Mexico geography for theBook of Mormon believe the world will end in 2012 as noted by this article: http://maxwellinstit...=9&num=1&id=216 "An Apparent Maya Prophecy for Our Day." This of course takes precedence over statements by the Prophet JosephSmith about Zelph fighting under a great prophet being known from the Eastern Sea to the Rocky Mountains. Interesting thoughts, Savelli. You're like Samuel the Lamanite sent to the hard-hearted Nephites at BYU, I mean Zarahemla. They'll cast stones and arrows at your outrageous fortune. They might even call you a "troll" because they don't know Portuguese. But they can read Maya glyphs.In jest, and the best to all,Nenahnezad
againandagain Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 ...from the Eastern Sea to the Rocky Mountains...Nenahnezad1. CFR2. Which way does his river Sidon flow?
SAVELLI Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 You're a troll, a professional map maker would not make such crappy maps. You expect someone to read them??? You claim you were a professor before obtaining a master's degree? Don't think so. Surely a salaried professor knows how to make a proper web site. What's the name of your hospital?You are a quite silly and unwise person, quite typical of some LDS people or of the 10 tribes. It is not a surprise that they, as 10 tribes, disappeared and the 2 tribes, the Jews, survived all these years as people gathered in two tribes. As they have been the true "wisers of Zion", as if from Jerusalem and from the dispersed Jerusalem all over the World. As if in great pain and singing they let their heart in Jerusalem (not in San Francisco or in Utah...). I guess the feeling of superiority is not good to keep a kingdom united: they caused the division of Israel.My mapping company is very long ended. Since 1982 I am not more technical director or have ownership of it. Thus I have not more experts in technical map making at hand, mainly if for not earning making purposes, as for church. I have not a BYU (or any other LDS supporter) backing my researches and paying for making my maps and drawings. Thus Indeed to make them in very simples way that will not take my precious time, because it is not my ACADEMIC TIME. Paid by some ACADEMIC FUNDING, as from University (as BYU)... but by me. Only LDS people are that make complains. The Brazilian counterparts, the SUDs, NEVER MAKES such COMPLAIN. They are simpler and humbler and honest and poorer people who understand our limitations. They know we don't have a BYU in our back shoulders to make perfect drawings and that things are hard and painful to do here in poor Latin America, so despised by USA... In fact Spoiled as if colonial lands, even under political and cultural domain (and religious also). I would like to tell you something VERY INTERESTING. In 1999 I had like a "TECHNICAL revelation".I knew I was to receive one information about something very ancient. I was preparing my class lecture for next day and correcting projects and tests from my students, at night.I understood it was to stop and put a white paper over the big table and gather drawing material and not use books or internet.I understood I was to make the drawing of one land that existed so many million years ago, as seen from the space, from a stopped place over it, at some 1,300 km over it. And I had just and exactly "one hour" to do that.You can see or imagine how "sketchy" was such like "map or picture like" from the space and from the very past time.And I understood it was not for LDS people and even to never get into an LDS Temple.But it was to be sent to Jew S-C-I-E-N-T-I-S-T-S for them reason about and for them test it.Before that several things were made with such map (the one hour), as to publish a big ad new in the best local newspaper telling about such map was turned available (as if it was lost) and registered in the Public Notary. It was for Geographic purposes, as if for record of a lost land to be made known (recorded) for the Jewish only (Moses). but had Adam's pathway when departing to ahman.And finally it went on to Washington to a community of Orthodox Jews, that received it "well", even it was made into so sketchy trembled lines and words. They just asked to convert it into a very organized and nice look standard usual map of so old days, for their scientific research work start.They couldn't doubt that at the end of the days Jehovah could remember again of them, the Jews, and that they were being they were being "tested".The research took so many years and the results are in Orthodox Jewish sites (what was published). Something is not politically publishable. A very interesting thing took place. Thus I was considered, by some, as the first "Mormon Rabi" (or Rabine): for sure nothing to do with the LDS or BYU community. A Lamanate SUD? Thus I could make sermons (even talking about Joseph Smith, not in excess) to sites of Synagogues, of Orthodox Jews Forums and Groups, provides Counseals (as about future Temple of Jerusalem, gathering of Jews of Judah, etc).With best personal regards,SABELLI
mfbukowski Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 I am not sure if others realize this or not, but the Sabines (Sabelli) were indeed an ancient people who were pre-Roman who lived, like the Etruscans, in the peninsula now known as Italy.They are famous for the "rape of the Sabines" The Rape is supposed to have occurred in the early history of Rome, shortly after its founding by Romulus and his mostly male followers. Seeking wives in order to found families, the Romans negotiated unsuccessfully with the Sabines, who populated the area. Fearing the emergence of a rival society, the Sabines refused to allow their women to marry the Romans. Consequently, the Romans planned to abduct Sabine women. Romulus devised a festival of Neptune Equester and proclaimed the festival among Rome's neighbours. According to Livy, many people from Rome's neighbours attended, including folk from the Caeninenses, Crustumini, and Antemnates, and many of the Sabines. At the festival Romulus gave a signal, at which the Romans grabbed the Sabine women and fought off the Sabine men. The indignant abductees were soon implored by Romulus to accept Roman husbands. Livy is clear that no sexual assault took place. On the contrary, Romulus offered them free choice and promised civic and property rights to women. According to Livy, Romulus spoke to them each in person, "and pointed out to them that it was all owing to the pride of their parents in denying the right of intermarriage to their neighbours. They would live in honourable wedlock, and share all their property and civil rights, and--dearest of all to human nature--would be the mothers of free men."[1]I think we need to not dismiss Savelli as a "troll" and overlook his lack of familiarity with formal English, and the roughness of his graphics, and evaluate his positions honestly.The internet is an amazing thing- full of geniuses and crackpots, and fortunately or not, in my opinion, we should evaluate each individually. Sometimes you have to sift a lot of coal before you find a diamond.
mfbukowski Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Osco-Umbrian languagesApproximate distribution of languages in Iron Age Italy during the sixth century BC.For other uses, see Sabellian (disambiguation).The Osco-Umbrian languages or Sabellic languages are a group of languages that belong to the Italic language family of the Indo-European languages. They were spoken in central and southern Italy before Latin replaced them as the power of the Romans expanded. Quantities of text in Osco-Umbrian have survived.The following languages belong to this group: the Umbrian group; and the Oscan language.[edit] Past usageSabellic was originally the collective ethnonym of the Italic people who inhabited central and southern Italy at the time of Roman expansion. The name was later used by Theodor Mommsen in his Unteritalische Dialekte to describe the pre-Roman dialects of central Italy which were neither Oscan nor Umbrian. Nowadays, it is used to describe the Osco-Umbrian languages as a whole. The North Picene language was once considered Sabellic; it is now believed to be a non-Indo-European language.[citation needed]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SabellicVolscian was a Sabellic Italic language, which was spoken by the Volsci and closely related to Oscan and Umbrian.It is attested in an inscription found in Velitrae (Velletri), dating probably from early in the 3rd century BC; it is cut upon a small bronze plate (now in the Naples Museum), which must have once been fixed to some votive object, dedicated to the god Declunus (or the goddess Decluna). The language of this inscription is clear enough to show the very marked peculiarities that rank it close to the language of the Iguvine Tables. It shows on the one hand the labialization of the original velar q (Volscian pis = Latin quis), and on the other hand it palatalizes the guttural c before a following i (Volscian facia Latin faciat). Like Umbrian also, but unlike Latin and Oscan, it has degraded all the diphthongs into simple vowels (Volscian se parallel to Oscan svai; Volscian deue, Old Latin and Oscan deiuai or deiuoi). This phenomenon of what might have been taken for a piece of Umbrian text appearing in a district remote from Umbria and hemmed in by Latins on the north and Oscan-speaking Samnites on the south is a most curious feature in the geographical distribution of the Italic dialects, and is clearly the result of some complex historical movements.In seeking for an explanation we may perhaps trust, at least in part, the evidence of the ethnicon itself: the name Volsci belongs to what may be called the -co- group of tribal names in the centre, and mainly on the west coast, of Italy, all of whom were subdued by the Romans before the end of the 4th century BC; and many of whom were conquered by the Samnites about a century or more earlier. They are, from south to north, Osci, Aurunci, Hernici, Marruci, Falisci; with these were no doubt associated the original inhabitants of Aricia and of Sidicinum, of Vescia among the Aurunci, and of Labici close to Hernican territory.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volscian_languageUnderlining added.
Ares Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 A few comments were removed started by someone demanding personal information. Play nice.When someone is behaving badly please hit the report button. The moderators can take it from there. Don't argue with someone who is starting a flame war.As an aside using a sock puppet to avoid a temporary suspension of posting rights is an immediate banning offense as someone just found out.Thank you!
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 With best personal regards, sincerely yours, SAVELLIThe writing on the bottom, were did that come from? What is the source.
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