1921 Book Of Mormon Geography Hearings

[SAVELLI]

Save your breath, here is a taste of his fruit:

I wrote this document. celso savelli gomes

[CELSOSAVELLI,

08-20-06]

Another darkened mind has ridden the waves of bizarre.

There is a great mistake. We may have some type of ideas, understanding today. They are not the final situation, our final judgement and teaching about something..

We can have progress in our ideas and conclusions. Mainly when they are related to uncertainties and speculations. Thus not coming as statements received from an angel, as final disclosure about one subject. I am mainly toward the side of the science. With true science we should believe in one thing based on the Iinformation we have, based on "data" as used by Kopernico and Galileo to make judgements. With the telescope many conclusions, from thousand years, had to be revised... And if we study, reason and search for more information and for greater truth, our believes and conclusions about a scientific truth,

must change and we have progress. Because you received more information and you reasoned about them. Thus what I wrote is related to my "understanding" available some 5 years ago. It can be revised and even I can deny totally some conclusions from 5 or 10 years ago.

I am not the Church President making many statements, as I did, about something new and for 5 years later coming to say to revise that, because it was wrong... or just requiring some improvements here and there...

Such my posted material was reasonable for the information I had and according the REASONING I used to evaluate the subject, 5 years ago. Maybe I got enough new information and proper reasoning to revise totally what I posted. You should check about. Just to know: this and that is yet reasonable and we should revise again in future. But these other conclusion appears to be not supported by the available information and reasoning, for now. Thus this part of the posted material must be considered as wrong and not to be used.

If you don't have this mind, you can't be a good scientists, researcher, or even to make a serious criticism.

There were scientists who were greatest adepts of one theory. They did some "fatal examination, experiment or even a proper reasoning". As result they abandoned all their pride/glory and even quite like the "faith" they had in some theory or school of thought or teaching, in favor of something better.

Physics is plenty of good hearted men who were humble enough to recognize their conclusions were not definitive. And that they should change and abandon what they had taught as correct for long time. Doing that is making True science.

Best personal regards,

SAVELLI, teacher since 1968. M.Sc. University of California, Berkeley.

Let there be light and truth.

[Calm]

There are some comments about I have been using too much unnecessary things, as if capital letters, underlining plenty of words, use bold letters in excessive abundance and other bad things. I hope to use shorter phrasers (thus revising the text to be more compact in presenting new information, as removing excess of details).

Much better, thank you.

[BOMG]

Thus this part of the posted material must be considered as wrong and not to be used...I know nothing about religion and its mysteries...Let there be light and truth.

The posted material showed your powers of reasoning. You can't put new wine (formulae) into old bottles (your brain). The field of BoM geography must be approached by the formula suggested by Sorenson, Clark and FAIR.

The failing of your "new" formula will be demonstrated just as soon as you produce your model. Are you ready to accept that your new formula is flawed?

[BOMG]

Umm, the "cursed?" Regards, Pahoran

54 Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.

56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.

57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—D&C 84

"In a broader sense, I believe the condemnation that rests upon the Latter-day Saints is a loss of spiritual power, a loss of blessings, a loss of perspective about eternal possibilities. Perhaps we have not enjoyed the revelations, the divine direction, the sweet promptings of the Spirit, that might have been ours. We have not been the recipients of the fruit of the Spirit--'love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance' (Galatians 5:22-23)--as we could have been. Surely we have not enjoyed the understanding, the light and truth, the lens of pure intelligence, that is so readily accessible. In too many cases our minds and hearts have not been shaped and prepared by the Book of Mormon, by its lessons and logic, testimony and transforming power, and thus too often the judgment and discernment so essential to perceiving the false doctrines of the world, and even the irrelevant, have not been as strong as they might have been. Because we have not immersed and washed ourselves in those living waters that flow from the Book of Mormon, we have not enjoyed faith like the ancients, that faith which strengthens resolve and provides courage and peace in a time of unrest. So much of the stress and fear and apprehension and exhaustion that now exist in society is so very unnecessary; ours could be the right to that lifting and liberating Spirit that produces hope and peace and rest. Though the light of the fulness of the everlasting gospel has begun to break forth into a world of darkness (see D&C 45:28), yet too often we walk in darkness at noonday, or at least we traverse the path of life in twilight when we might bask in the bright light of the Son." (Robert L. Millet, The Power of the Word: Saving Doctrines from the Book of Mormon, 1994, p. 303)

Edited July 14, 2011 by BOMG

[Joseph Antley]

Because of these useful suggestions, below I am reproducing the last posted message, in some type of "revised condition". The idea is to obtain a feed back in relation to what improvements are required.

It might be more appropriate if you start a new thread for such feedback instead of cluttering this one.

[Sevenbak]

Elder Anthony W. Ivins of the Council of the Twelve presented his views and suggestions, indicating that the Book of Mormon lands embraced mainly Yucatan and Mexico...(snip)

I found it interesting that none of the proposed models, including that of Elder Anthony W. Ivins, was based in the present United States.

Sorry, I can't let this one go on without comment. I've tried not to get involved with these geography threads lately, but if you don't mind, I would like to address this. I've bolded the word in the above snip which I believe makes all the difference, as I don't see him saying what you think he is saying.

President Ivins was a strong proponent of both Meso and N. American, and believed, as do I, that most of the BoM lands were in Mesoamerica, but the final winding up scene took place in New York.

Here is P. Ivins talk given atop the Hill Cumorah, when the Church acquired the land. Again, I've bolded the relevant parts.

THE HILL CUMORAH BY PRESIDENT ANTHONY W. IVINS

-There have been some differences of opinion in regard to it, and in order that I might be correct in the statements which I make I have this morning finished a short manuscript which I would like to read—the first time. I believe, in my experience, that I have ever addressed a congregation in this manner, and I do it for the purpose stated.

-The purchase of this hill, which President Grant has announced, is an event of more than ordinary importance to the membership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The memories of the remote past which cluster round this sacred spot, its close association with the opening of the present gospel dispensation, which has resulted in bringing together this congregation of people, for without it this tabernacle would not have been erected, nor would we have been gathered here in worship today, and the thought which we entertain of the possibilities which its bosom may unfold, make the acquisition of this hill almost an epochal accomplishment in the history of the Church.

-The passages which I have quoted from the Book of Mormon and the more extended discussion of this subject by Elder B. H. Roberts which was published in The Deseret News of March 3 definitely established the following facts: That the hill Cumorah, and the hill Ramah are identical. That it was around this hill that the armies of both the Jaredites and Nephites fought their great last battles. That it was in this hill that Mormon deposited all of the sacred records which had been entrusted to his care by Ammaron, except the abridgment which he had made from the plates of Nephi, which were delivered into the hands of his son, Moroni. We know positively that it was in this hill that Moroni deposited the abridgment made by his father, and his own abridgment of the record of the Jaredites, and that it was from this hill that Joseph Smith obtained possession of them.

-According to the Book of Mormon, many hundreds of thousands of people fell in battle around this hill and in the immediate vicinity. It was here that two once-powerful nations were exterminated so far as their national existence was concerned. It was here that these nations gathered together for their last great struggles.

-All of these incidents to which I have referred, my brethren and sisters, are very closely associated with this particular spot in the state of New York. Therefore I feel, as I said in the beginning of my remarks, that the acquisition of that spot of ground is more than an incident in the history of the Church; it is an epoch—an epoch which in my opinion is fraught with that which may become of greater interest to the Latter-day Saints than that which has already occurred. We know that all of these records, all the sacred records of the Nephite people, were deposited by Mormon in that hill. That incident alone is sufficient to make it the sacred and hallowed spot that it is to us. I thank God that, in a way which seems to have been providential, it has come into the possession of the Church. ("The Hill Cumorah" by President Anthony W. Ivins, Improvement Era, 1928, Vol. Xxxi. June, 1928 No. 8 .)

And to be fair, I'm including Elder B. H. Roberts conference talk which speaks of President Ivins belief also in a Mesoamerican setting, but ending in New York.

-Among the many important subjects that have been brought to our attention I think there is no item of more importance than the subject that was discussed by President Ivins in tracing the records of the Nephites from the centers of their civilization northward, and the long pilgrimage of the people as they moved northward until they came to the land of Ripliancum, the land of many waters, and the Hill Cumorah. I was deeply interested in what he said, and I believe that his remarks make a very important contribution, not only to this conference, but to the literature of the Church. It will at least be preserved in the minutes of this conference, and will be of permanent record. (Brigham H. Roberts, Conference Report, April 1928, Third Day—Morning Meeting, p.107)

Edited July 14, 2011 by Sevenbak

[BOMG]

President Ivins was a strong proponent of both Meso and N. American,

The conundrum for those who don't understand is this single reference regarding where the Nephites were destroyed:

And the Lord warned Omer in a dream that he should depart out of the land; wherefore Omer departed out of the land with his family, and traveled many days, and came over and passed by the hill of Shim, and came over by the place where the Nephites were destroyed, (Ether 9.3)

Omer was a Jaredite and the Jaredites lived exclusively in the Land Northward. Thus, if the final battle was in Palmyra, then the Land Northward is near Cumorah AND the Narrow Neck which separated it from the Land Southward - all near Palmyra, NY.

It is not possible therefore to claim both a final battle in Palmyra and BoM lands in Mesoamerica.

Past geographers failed to calculate distances and never realized how untenable their ideas were. Still right now, Meldrum, May, etc. fail to respect the distance references also. The only model that does respect stated distances is the Western New York model.

[Calm]

54 Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—....

Same request for you, to increase legibility, please limit use of text variations, if you feel the need to emphasize, then please just use one type of coding rather than three. It makes it very hard for some of us to read.

[BOMG]

Same request for you, to increase legibility, please limit use of text variations, if you feel the need to emphasize, then please just use one type of coding rather than three. It makes it very hard for some of us to read.

CFR

[LeSellers]

CFR

That fact that calmoriah complained about it is proof enough that for "some of us", it is, indeed, difficult to read.

Lehi

[Sevenbak]

The conundrum for those who don't understand is this single reference regarding where the Nephites were destroyed:

And the Lord warned Omer in a dream that he should depart out of the land; wherefore Omer departed out of the land with his family, and traveled many days, and came over and passed by the hill of Shim, and came over by the place where the Nephites were destroyed, (Ether 9.3)

Omer was a Jaredite and the Jaredites lived exclusively in the Land Northward. Thus, if the final battle was in Palmyra, then the Land Northward is near Cumorah AND the Narrow Neck which separated it from the Land Southward - all near Palmyra, NY.

It is not possible therefore to claim both a final battle in Palmyra and BoM lands in Mesoamerica.

Past geographers failed to calculate distances and never realized how untenable their ideas were. Still right now, Meldrum, May, etc. fail to respect the distance references also. The only model that does respect stated distances is the Western New York model.

It's an interesting theory, but read the last paragraph I provided by BH Roberts, quoting President Ivins from Conference. Here it is again.

"...the subject that was discussed by President Ivins in tracing the records of the Nephites from the centers of their civilization northward, and the long pilgrimage of the people as they moved northward until they came to the land of Ripliancum, the land of many waters, and the Hill Cumorah."

Edited July 14, 2011 by Sevenbak

[BOMG]

It's an interesting theory, but read the last paragraph I provided by BH Roberts, quoting President Ivins from Conference. Here it is again.

"...the subject that was discussed by President Ivins in tracing the records of the Nephites from the centers of their civilization northward, and the long pilgrimage of the people as they moved northward until they came to the land of Ripliancum, the land of many waters, and the Hill Cumorah."

That is why those geographical footnote references were removed from the 1920 and later editions.

During the time Ivins made his statements the brethren had not yet tapered back their arrogant claim that "all" Indians descended from BoM peoples and were still under the curse of the darkened mind which continues on most even now.

[Sevenbak]

That is why those geographical footnote references were removed from the 1920 and later editions.

During the time Ivins made his statements the brethren had not yet tapered back their arrogant claim that "all" Indians descended from BoM peoples and were still under the curse of the darkened mind which continues on most even now.

Sorry no sale. You'll have to give me a reference to any GA's holding to such a theory. Since Ivins there have been plenty of more recent statements to the same effect, including McConkie, Peterson and others. In fact, the recent (2 years ago) Institute Manual, before it was slimmed way down for content, also said the same thing.

I'm super busy today, so you get the last word, just wanted to reply to the OP as I believe it was slightly but unintentionally misleading.

[BOMG]

Sorry no sale...I'm super busy today, so you get the last word, just wanted to reply to the OP as I believe it was slightly but unintentionally misleading.

For those without access to an 1879 or 1911 BoM, here is a list of the pertinent footnotes that were removed; they speak for themselves:

http://bookofmormongeography.org/lands/cumorah/1879-book-of-mormon

Keep in mind that a. Omer went past "where the Nephites were destroyed" b. Jaredite lands were north of the Narrow Neck c. it was only a day's journey from the Land Bountiful to the head of the River Sidon, so no, hemispheric/modified hemispheric aka heartland models don't work.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

The rantings of the cursed, I guarantee he is not a true believer in the BoM.

Oh stop. I think he is sincere and he fully believes the BoM. I have a hard time following his logic. Remember that when you point your finger 3 are pointing back at you.

[Calm]

That fact that calmoriah complained about it is proof enough that for "some of us", it is, indeed, difficult to read.

Lehi

Thank you, Lehi.

I will add that in my previous experience as a moderator on another board posters who typed in such styles were invariably complained about by many posters and the general consensus was that if they persisted, they were put on ignore by most of those.

Edited July 14, 2011 by calmoriah

[SAVELLI]

Thanks for the links and info. It seems pretty technical and hard to grasp. I'd like to read up on some more of his topics though.

I would like to demonstrate the utilization of "language landmarks" to unveil, disclose, the Book of Mormon Geography. Such procedure was used in Europe to locate the Nephites (Sabelli) that departed (some 800 B.C.) from North of Italy (region probably between towns of Milan and Venice, with the mountains) with the Celts, in several incursions through Europe. In one they arrived into the River Danube, a sabelli's word DAN + a Celt’s word UBe, DanUBe. Probably that sabelli's had a sub-group from Dan tribe, as had with Nephites...

Other group moved to France, to board to Great Britain Islands and some unbounded (when crossing the Great Channel) at the island of DIEU, coast of France. In fact it was added the "A" because it is an adjective for "female gender". Thus Adieu in fact is A + dieu, which translated (from Sabelli's = Nephitic's) to our modern language is alike "Dieu A", or "God female", a little important Goddess from Greek Mythological pantheon for the waters... And the ADIEU that is in Book of Mormon has nothing to do with the modern French language. Some 2,000 years gap is placed between their existences...

It was possible to locate the Sabelli's people in Great Britain, in Ireland, because of the "language" was provider of "landmarks". They have been living there for 2 thousand years (?) in that region of the 4 tallest mountain peaks of Ireland: the NEPHIN peaks. And Nephin as translated means NEPH + IN. With IN being "the living place for somebody", as in good hotels (like the Holyday INN hotels). DublIN is also a similar "fossil Sabelli's name": DUBL + IN. Thus the living place for the DUBL people...

Thus "Nephin is the land for Nephites live in". In fact their local dialect is quite like a funny mixture of old Nephitic's (Sabelli's) language and Celtic alike and English. It is funny the way Nephitic is mixed in their words, to make "composite longer words" (as typical in Book of Mormon...) as it is quite like an ancient version of Italian and Latin originated languages... Very funny. Good information available on that. I have an Irish relative. And their poetry is clearly very old Hebrew alike and there are Irish sites talking about such so "strange Jewish alike poetry" in Ireland, with nephites... Thus they are yet like living "fossil nephites", quite mixed with other people and languages...

In the USA it was found a lot of "geographical landmarks" for the Book of Mormon. One is so huge that with naked eyes any astronaut can "see it". Barrier is "language"...

We could start with a very easy case as for "landmark" and for starting to reveal the correct Geography of Book of Mormon. Mormon means MOR + MON or MON + MOR in nephitic word, and the translation are quite like of very precise Geographical meaning: a unique ”place" where we had/have the "Mormon" name applied to nominate it. If you know sabelli's = nephi's language, you immediately knows where it is sited "Mormon", that was used as a name for a personage from Book of Mormon...

Think about the name Tecumseh, that is an Indian name and so important, that it appears "twice" and separated by a short distance. One place was quite like a "fort place" in the USA territory and the other being quite like other "fort place" in Canada. This one was the very important Teancum town and fort mentioned in Book of Mormon. It is sited quite like to take care the Indian movements toward the right part of North Lands, bordering the North Sea pathway, as to protect the town of MANTI. It is very clear that Tecumseh was a kind of corruption of TeANcum-Sch, and probably it was difficult to avoid phonetic corruption loosing the AN and the added Seh=SCHah (="property of").

This is quite like the corruption with Nephitic's named given for NephiCH, "the town for Nephites" in Egypt: first named NEFIch in sabelli's=Nephi’s and then became Nafich or somewhat like Nafichah. With sh, ch and ah meaning property in "modern Islam": Arabic language... Thus the ending “she” is quite like such type of corruption SchAh that took place at the end of the name NEFIch when converted to Arab language, in some 2600 years and Nephic as NEFIch is yet alive as a neighborhood of a very important town of Egypt. Thus the isolated NefiCH became just a neighborhood with Arab name. For sure Nephi and Ishmael were so good friends. And if you take care, you can see other marks, in Egypt, of the rural lands that King Pharaoh Necho II gave to Nefites live in, in the region of Bitter Lake to Red Sea...

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/aa92b2dfe60b6ef6a96fd5dfdf752cfce91fdcbbd5784ff394513326fa878b9e6g.jpg

You can see the location of Tecumseh (in the Canadian side is the one mentioned in Book of Mormon). The other is at the left of the big sized “E” letter with bold red color (at the very left down corner). We can reason TECUMseh as being TEanCUMseh, thus the town of Teancum, which is TE + ANCUM. The name and title "Te" is very used among the Sabelli's language. And Ancum is quite like the language corrupted as Ancona = Ancom+A (Ancum phonetically, in female gender). Ancum for those who know some Nephitic means "very large, very wide, very vast, and other related superlatives). Thus Tecumseh is pointing to Teancum name and place. Thus RipliANCUM is nearby, you may guess... Having evaluated a land-mark it is easy to find all related places and events for a given Geographic Area, as this one, shown above...

Go to point "D", in big red color. It is the position of Manti Town = Fort, which is the same position of the very ancient Fort (of USA and French) that originated the town of Detroit. The "fort" is now a touristy place. From point "D" you move a little to the right and upward, and you read, in big red bold letters, Sidon River (rio=river Sidon, lothic condition, visible) and next from it, to the right, you can see in "black bold letters" the Indian name of one town, Tecumseh, almost at the shore of Lake St. Clair, quite like the beginning of the “North Sea”: toward "north" lands that Tecumseh was protecting. Between points "C" and "D" was the crossing of the Sidon River, as detailed in the Book of Mormon. It is the smallest width possible for such river SID+ON, the great SID ("El Cid..."). There so many Lamanites died trying to cross the Sidon River to conquer the town of Manti (nowadays Detroit). Thus such crossing point was like a "Neck" of “waters”, the narrowest one, between "two lands" trying to close the river. One land is the Isthmus of Canada land (like a head, coming from Riplah Hill) and pressing waters of Sidon River against USA (Detroit), as if the trunk of human body.

You can see that the river Sidon is flowing to the foreground, to down part of the map, and discharging into the so immense and vast and unlimited ("ancum") fresh water Sea. Nothing is said in Book of Mormon that such SEA is of SALT water... In fact Sea of Galille (receiving Jordan River) is also a very similar “SEA” (to that of Book of Mormon): without Salt from Salt Lake people... Such Lamanites were transported by the river Sidon and discharged at the point "G", in big red bold letter. Satellites picture show where the silt is piled up and thus where carried material (as dead bodies) are “buried” into the SEA: sank for burial in the silt material.

You can see the Indian Trail of the Lamanites between the Riplah Hill (point "B", in big red color letter) and the start of crossing the River Sidon (at the point "C") to try to conquer the Town of Manti (Manti is also a very Sabelli's name, very common one... the meaning of it is very "obvious" for those who know the language...). At the point "B", the crown of RIPL+AH Hill, we have so vast and almost unlimited “view of waters”, from the West Sea (Lake Erie) in one side and some of the North Sea (starting with Lake St. Clair) also can be seen as great water. Ancum is such so vast view of waters: RIPLI-ANCUM. Meaning is RIPLI=RIPL + I (this I meaning "male", thus one male of surname Ripl gave the title RIPLI-ANCUM). Indians, as the invading Lamanites were coming from the point "A", from the Isthmus of Niagara, at the “neck of LAND” that separates USA and Canada and also Lake Ontario and Lake Erie.

http://www.geocities.com/sane_sav1/DETROIT_SPACE.jpg (at the end = discharge of River Sidon=River Detroit) into Lake Erie = West Sea (of fresh water), you can "see very clearly" what happened with the bodies of dead Lamanites. They were "buried" in the point where silt sediment (carried by River Sidon) is settling into the West Sea = Lake Erie.

See such satellite map of Detroit region, to enjoy the local Geography of Book of Mormon. You can see clearly where the Lamanites were buried into the "west sea". You may enlarge such map or you may buy a very nice poster, very enlarged, of such privileged view of Book of Mormon piece of Geography...

I used such satellite picture to prepare a convenient view of the local Geography of Book of Mormon for the land around Manti's region. See it.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/efc3d33da4ecce29cd801f9fddbf675c6791201b00920f432db483fdfeca4ba96g.jpg

With best personal regards, sincerely yours,

SAVELLI

[BOMG]

I would like to demonstrate the utilization of "language landmarks" to unveil, disclose, the Book of Mormon Geography.

You are ignoring established protocols. Do you even have an Internal Map? If so post it, then post a full physical map. Thanks!

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

With best personal regards, sincerely yours,

SAVELLI

At the very least we now know that you posit a "Great Lakes" setting for the BoM.

[BOMG]

At the very least we now know that you posit a "Great Lakes" setting for the BoM.

Not even, see my previous posting of his ideas, they go clear to Mesoamerica.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Not even, see my previous posting of his ideas, they go clear to Mesoamerica.

But he is posting a map of the great lakes with names like "Sidon" and Detroit= Manti. That sounds an awful bit like he is suggesting a Great Lakes setting for the BoM. I have not seen him mention really anything about Mesoamerica in any of his posts. Perhaps I missed it. Do you have a reference for it?

[BOMG]

I have not seen him mention really anything about Mesoamerica in any of his posts. Perhaps I missed it. Do you have a reference for it?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

JAREDITES landed in NEW YORK, in LONG ISLAND ("sancturary of liberty").

LEHI (and thus NEPHITES) DID EXACTLY THE SAME and also their penetration toward GREAT LAKES was through same river, now part of the channel coming from WEST SEA (LAKE ERIE) to PALMYRA (Hill CUMORAH, the only one existing) and to N.YORK (HARBOR).

MULEKITES ARRIVED IN NORTH AMERICA, AT THE END OF RIVER SAINT LAWRENCE, where it discharges into NORTH ATLANTIC.

Posted Image

The dashed line is wrong (for Mulekites): they travelled further to the discharge of River Saint Lawrence into North Atlantic. The lower thick pink line, number 2, is the travel route of NEPHITES (LEHI's). The upper thick pink line, number 1, is the travel route of JAREDITES. The middle dashed line, number 3, is the WRONG route for MULEKITES+ARABS: they landed northern, at the discharge of River Saint Lawerence.

You can see JAREDITES and NEPHITES penetrated through HUDSON RIVER and in one lower shoulder valley, where nowadays is passing the big navigation channel coming from EAST SEA (LAKE ERIE) is the route (to the left) they followed to reach HILL CUMORAH (nowadays PALMYRA) and thus reach EAST SEA (LAKE ONTARIO) and then the SHOULDERS of the MULEKITES' land (ZARAEMLA south limit, being the RIVER SIDON, here called NIAGARA RIVER) and the NEPHITES bordfered NIAGARA RIVER and went to WEST, to WEST SEA, to LAKE ERIE.

Yup lots of talk about Nephites being in Meso-America.

Oh wait here is his only point about Meso America.

THE ISTHMUS of MEXICO to PANAMA was inhabited by CURSED JAREDITES

I have no idea what "cursed Jaredites" are. They are not mentioned in teh BoM but he says that after much travel a portion of the Jardites and Nephites traveled trough here to South America. It appears that he thinks the Great Lakes is were a major portion of the BoM took place.

[BOMG]

Yup lots of talk about Nephites being in Meso-America. Oh wait here is his only point about Meso America.

Oh there were many points beyond Mesoamerica, thus not a great lakes model in the slightest:

Thus former NEPHITES and LAMANITES had to be ABSORBED by them and by the CULTURE and religion of such EVIL JAREDITES. But some ex-NEPHITES and LAMANITES

crossed the ISTHMUS

and SAILED toward

SOUTH AMERICA

. Some former Nephites crossed INKA's kingdoms (in

PERU

and

Bolivia

) and moved to live in

PARAGUAY, BRAZIL, URUGUAY and ARGENTINA.

A TRUE PYRAMIDE (with well cut rocks) was found recently in Brazil, between the towns of SAO PAULO and RIO DE JANEIRO.

Buy hey, he claims all that was wrong.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Oh there were many points beyond Mesoamerica, thus not a great lakes model in the slightest:

Thus former NEPHITES and LAMANITES had to be ABSORBED by them and by the CULTURE and religion of such EVIL JAREDITES. But some ex-NEPHITES and LAMANITES

crossed the ISTHMUS

and SAILED toward

SOUTH AMERICA

. Some former Nephites crossed INKA's kingdoms (in

PERU

and

Bolivia

) and moved to live in

PARAGUAY, BRAZIL, URUGUAY and ARGENTINA.

A TRUE PYRAMIDE (with well cut rocks) was found recently in Brazil, between the towns of SAO PAULO and RIO DE JANEIRO.

Buy hey, he claims all that was wrong.

This is only part of his theory that some of the nephties and lamanites migrated. He is not talking about the whole group.

I guess one could think that he is talking about a hemispheric model.