LeSellers Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 What role did apostasy play in the primitive church?It sure kept the Apostles busy: writing letters and visiting stakes around the Mediterranean. In the end, it destroyed the Church of Jesus Christ. Lehi
BOMG Posted June 18, 2011 Author Posted June 18, 2011 It sure kept the Apostles busy: writing letters and visiting stakes around the Mediterranean. In the end, it destroyed the Church of Jesus Christ. LehiI'll rephrase the question: What role did apostasy play in establishing the primitive church(es)?
LeSellers Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 I'll rephrase the question: What role did apostasy play in establishing the primitive church(es)?Happy to admit I misunderstood your first rendering of the question. Happy to admit this one is no better. Lehi
CV75 Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 What role did apostasy play in the primitive church?It led to its death (John 12:24).
BOMG Posted June 18, 2011 Author Posted June 18, 2011 It led to its death (John 12:24).I'm confused, do mean Jesus' apostasy led to his death?
CV75 Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 I'll rephrase the question: What role did apostasy play in establishing the primitive church(es)?Apostasy (personal or general) facilitated the establishment of primitive churches without the priesthood of God.
CV75 Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 I'm confused, do mean Jesus' apostasy led to his death?No, that except the Church die, it could not come forth much stronger as a manifestation of the power of Christ over death and h*** and every other obstacle imaginable. The destruction and restoration of His Church was nothing compared with the sin and death of all mankind, which He overcame.
BOMG Posted June 18, 2011 Author Posted June 18, 2011 Apostasy (personal or general) facilitated the establishment of primitive churches without the priesthood of God.Did John have the priesthood?
Log Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Did John have the priesthood?Why not ask your central question directly, rather than ******footing around it?
BOMG Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 Why not ask your central question directly, rather than ******footing around it?What role did apostasy play in establishing the primitive church(es)?
ChristKnight Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 What role did apostasy play in establishing the primitive church(es)?Please elaborate (I think everyone would like you to do this). Your question really is not clear.
BOMG Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 Please elaborate (I think everyone would like you to do this). Your question really is not clear.Let's begin with John, would he have been considered an apostate at that time? Would Jesus have been considered one also? And Paul, Lehi, etc. Hope that clarifies the op.
Calm Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) Let's begin with John, would he have been considered an apostate at that time? Would Jesus have been considered one also? And Paul, Lehi, etc. Hope that clarifies the op.Still not clear. Do you mean the primitive Christian Church or the Jewish one in existence at the time of Jesus?Perhaps it would be best to state who you see established the primitive church you are discussing. Edited June 19, 2011 by calmoriah
3DOP Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Let's begin with John, would he have been considered an apostate at that time? Would Jesus have been considered one also? And Paul, Lehi, etc. Hope that clarifies the op.I can answer that and I am not even LDS. No and no. Neither Jesus nor the Apostle John, according to LDS thought, would be apostate. Apostasy led to the need for a Restoration. If I believed there was an apostasy, I would be looking for something with a visible unity like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
BOMG Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) Still not clear. Do you mean the primitive Christian Church or the Jewish one in existence at the time of Jesus?Very astute! Let's address the one that John, Jesus, Paul and Lehi belonged to. Neither Jesus nor the Apostle John, according to LDS thought, would be apostate. To be clear, "at that time" how would they have been viewed? Edited June 19, 2011 by BOMG
ChristKnight Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Let's begin with John, would he have been considered an apostate at that time? Would Jesus have been considered one also? And Paul, Lehi, etc. Hope that clarifies the op.No, they were not apostates.
BOMG Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 No, they were not apostates.To be clear, "at that time" how would they have been viewed?
3DOP Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 To be clear, "at that time" how would they have been viewed?It doesn't seem like the contemporary detractors of Christ or His Apostles would be relevant to the question of how Latter-day Saints would view or defend a post-apostolic apostasy. Their view of apostasy is compatible with the fact that Christ was crucified and His Apostles were persecuted. 1
brightpath Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 What role did apostasy play in the primitive church?Read Romans Chapter 11. The Apostasy came about to bring salvation unto the Gentiles.
BOMG Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 Read Romans Chapter 11. The Apostasy came about to bring salvation unto the Gentiles.Read the op, it is not about "The Apostasy" and personal examples are questioned. Any answers?
BOMG Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 It doesn't seem like the contemporary detractors of Christ or His Apostles would be relevant to the question of how Latter-day Saints would view or defend a post-apostolic apostasy. Their view of apostasy is compatible with the fact that Christ was crucified and His Apostles were persecuted.Was John a detractor of the Christ and his apostles?
Flyonthewall Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 I would surmise that Jesus Christ and His followers were viewed by the church leadership of the time as apostate, and Jesus was down right blasphemous, thus, the end result of His crucifixion.I am not sure what you are getting at with the questions you are asking. The role of apostasy, it seems, is the same as it always has been. Look to the scriptures and see what role aspostasy has played. What role did apostasy play after Moses led the Israelited from Egypt? What role did apostasy play all throughout the wanderings in the wilderness? What role did it play after Israel came into the promised land and set up their nation? What role did it play once kings were established in Israel? What role did it play during the time of Nathan, Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, and all the other prophets?Apostasy has always followed God's true teachings, and God has always sent prophets to lead the way back. So is there a role that apostasy plays? Maybe it plays the role of a sifter, or thresher to sift the chaf from the wheat...or maybe it plays the role of refiner's fire.
CV75 Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 Let's begin with John, would he have been considered an apostate at that time? Would Jesus have been considered one also? And Paul, Lehi, etc. Hope that clarifies the op.It seems a question like this is not so much about apostasy but about opposition (although it does not seem to acknowledge that apostasy is the opposition to truth, not false religion). However, opposition has a role in everything, including the establishmnt of primitive churches.John, Paul and Lehi, etc. were in alignment with God and thus were opposed by the rebellious. They were aligned with Him not because they were in opposition to other religious choices, but because they were given the light and followed it. They likely faced situations where they had to oppose false teachings or those who sought to destroy them or their true teachings, but their position of light came about because of the power and their love of light, not their opposition to darkness. 1
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