Constitution Hanging By A Thread...

[Rob Osborn]

We are all aware of the many references in the past about our constitution hanging by a thread. It is not my intention to make this a political debate even though this statement has been involved in certain politics like Glen Beck, Rex Rammel, etc. It is my intention to ask if this statement is relevent today- is our constitution hanging by a thread? Please specify exactly what or why if you think it is.

When one thinks about it, our constitution is a legal document that provides us with the necessary principles that protect our individual rights and priveledges in society. I keep hearing this statement as now being that time when our constitution is hanging by a thread. But, then I go out, go freely to worship in my LDS church- something btw, that was not protected back in Joseph Smith's day. I also can go and watch a movie with a negro and not be concerned if he would have to go into a separate theatre. I also can compete equally with a person for a job position regardless of that person being black, hispanic, or even a women.

I guess what I am getting at is that if our constitutional rights are somehow hanging by a thread, why is it that we enjoy protective rights as citizens that until now, America has never so greatly enjoyed?

[frankenstein]

the Constitution has always hung by a thread. See Maybury v. Madison.

The Constitution only survives on the social contract between the People and the 3 Branches.

"I guess what I am getting at is that if our constitutional rights are somehow hanging by a thread, why is it that we enjoy protective rights as citizens that until now, America has never so greatly enjoyed?"

Do the Citizens of the United State enjoy what you claim?

To whom does the Patriot Act apply?

Who can be searched without a warrant?

Who can be arrested in Texas for not evacuating after evacuation order has been issued?

Do the 3 three branches individual or collectively obey every aspect of administration in their respective branch?

Edited to reflect JeffK's better phrasing.

[Jeff K.]

I agree with Frankenstien on this one. The constitution exists on a social contract or "gentleman's agreement".

There have been times in our history when our nation was significantly "less" constitutional.

[ELF1024]

I don't think that the Constitution is hanging by a thread any more precariously today than it was at any other time in history.

Since I started paying more attention to politics, it seems that political parties have used the idea of violating the Constitution as a buzzword and as a way to upset their base. However both parties have seemed to show a remarkable amount of tone deafness towards the Constitution when it suited their purpose.

The biggest problem we have in America, IMHO, is a lack of people who remember that they are supposed to be serving the goodwill of the people, and not serving themselves a big slice of the Washington DC pie.

However, that's just my two cents.

[cinepro]

We are all aware of the many references in the past about our constitution hanging by a thread.

For those who may not be aware...

CONSTITUTION HANGING BY A THREAD STATEMENTS

The Historians Corner, BYU Studies, Vol. 19, No. 3, p. 390

An occasional theme among Latter-day Saints during times of political crisis has been the prediction attributed to Joseph Smith that the U.S. Constitution would one day hang by a thread and that the elders of the Church would at some critical juncture be instrumental in saving it. The source of this statement is thought to be an unpublished address titled, “A Few Items from a Discourse Delivered by Joseph Smith, July 19, 1840,” filed in the Joseph Smith Papers in the LDS Church Archives. Written neatly on 8”x12” paper, the document is obviously a copy since it shows none of the usual characteristics of an original report. The paper appears to be of post-Nauvoo vintage, and the handwriting does not correspond to that of any of Joseph Smith’s known clerks. Nor is there reference in the Prophet’s History to his having delivered a discourse on 19 July 1840. Furthermore, at two points in the text, there appears to be a serious problem of continuity, suggesting copyist’s errors or some other flaw in the manuscript. Consequently, in the absence of an original text, and without information about its origin and authorship, the reliability of this document has remained somewhat tenuous.

CONSTITUTION TO HANG BY A THREAD. The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger. Said Orson Hyde: “I believe he said something like this—that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he: ‘If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the elders of this Church.’ I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it.”

Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.

Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, p. 326

Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol. 1, CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. LDS attachment to the Constitution has been further encouraged by an important oral tradition deriving from a statement attributed to Joseph Smith, according to which the Constitution would “hang by a thread” and be rescued, if at all, only with the help of the Saints. Church President John Taylor seemed to go further when he prophesied, “When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men” (JD 21:. To defend the principles of the Constitution under circumstances where the “iniquity,” or moral decay, of the people has torn it to shreds might well require wisdom at least equal to that of the men raised up to found it. In particular, it would require great insight into the relationship between freedom and virtue in a political embodiment of moral agency.

Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, October 1922, p. 40

My brethren and sisters, I hope that we will go home from this conference determined as a great body of people, to stand for law, order, righteousness, justice and peace on earth and good will among all men. I believe as the Prophet Joseph has written, that the day would come when there would be so much of disorder, of secret combinations taking the law into their own hands, tramping upon Constitutional rights and the liberties of the people, that the Constitution would hang as by a thread. Yes, but it will still hang, and there will be enough of good people, many who may not belong to our Church at all, people who have respect for law and for order, and for Constitutional rights, who will rally around with us and save the Constitution. I have never read that that thread would be cut. It will hang; the Constitution will abide and this civilization, that the Lord has caused to be built up, will stand fortified through the power of God, by putting from our hearts all that is evil, or that is wrong in the sight of God, by our living as we should live, acceptable to him.

Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, October 1923, p. 62

Brethren and sisters, let me say in closing that we have it of record, that the prophet Joseph Smith said the time will come when, through secret organizations taking the law into their own hands, not being governed by law or by due process of law, but becoming a law unto themselves, when, by those disintegrating activities, the Constitution of the United States would be so torn and rent asunder, and life and property and peace and security would be held of so little value, that the Constitution would, as it were, hang by a thread. But he never said, so far as I have heard, that that thread would be cut. I believe, with Elder Richards, that this Constitution will be preserved, but it will be preserved very largely in consequence of what the Lord has revealed and what this people, through listening to the Lord and being obedient, will help to bring about, to stabilize and give permanency and effect to the Constitution itself. That also is our mission. That also is what we are here for. I glory in it. I praise god with all my heart and soul that I am a member of it.

Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108

The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread. But, thank the Lord, the thread did not break. He saw the day when this people would be a balance of power to come to its defense. The Book of Mormon prophecies concerning the future of America have been referred to in our hearing during this conference, wherein it is stated that this nation, though it becomes a mighty nation, still it can stand in security here only as it serves the God of this land. That conception was in the hearts of the men who founded America.

Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, April 1933, p. 127

I believe that it is the destiny of the Latter-day Saints to support the Constitution of the United States. The Prophet Joseph Smith is alleged to have said—and I believe he did say it—that the day would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread. But he saw that the thread did not break, thank the Lord, and that the Latter-day Saints would become a balance of power, with others, to preserve that Constitution. If there is—and there is one part of the Constitution hanging as by a thread today—where do the Latter-day Saints belong? Their place is to rally to the support of that Constitution, and maintain it and defend it and support it by their lives and by their vote. Let us not disappoint God nor his prophet. Our place is fixed.

J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Conference Report, October 1942, p. 58

You and I have heard all our lives that the time may come when the Constitution may hang by a thread. I do not know whether it is a thread, or a small rope by which it now hangs, but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance.

Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85

It is no wonder that the Prophet Joseph said—even though he knew he would suffer martyrdom in this land—“The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner.”

Yet, according to his contemporaries, he foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents—the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1952, p. 18

It was Joseph Smith who has been quoted as having said that the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction.

Why the elders of this Church? Would it be sacrilegious to paraphrase the words of the Apostle Peter, and say that the Constitution of the United States could be saved by the elders of this Church because this Church and this Church alone has the words of eternal life? We alone know by revelation as to how the Constitution came into being, and we, alone, know by revelation the destiny of this nation. The preservation of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” can be guaranteed upon no other basis than upon a sincere faith and testimony of the divinity of these teachings.

THE CONSTITUTION TO HANG BY A THREAD

How long will it be before the words of the Prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. –Brigham Young, JD 12:204, April 8, 1868, Latter Day Prophets Speaks. Pg. 230

When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the “Mormon” elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it. –Brigham Young, JD 2:182, February 18, 1855, Latter Day Prophets Speaks. Pg. 230

When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States, the elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men and extending the hand of fellowship to the oppressed of all nations. This is part of the program and as long as we do what is right and fear God He will help us and stand by us under all circumstances. –John Taylor, JD 21:8, August 31, 1879

Source

[SilverKnight]

I guess what I am getting at is that if our constitutional rights are somehow hanging by a thread, why is it that we enjoy protective rights as citizens that until now, America has never so greatly enjoyed?

Because the constitution is 'hanging by a thread' only to tinfoil-hat-clad, right-wing fundamentalist mormon conspiracy theorist kooks.

[ksfisher]

I don't believe that Joseph Smith's statement on this matter has been accepted as revelation by the Church. If this quote from the White Horse Prophecy, then it has been stated numerous times by the Church as not being revelation.

[ELF1024]

Because the constitution is 'hanging by a thread' only to tinfoil-hat-clad, right-wing fundamentalist mormon conspiracy theorist kooks.

I dunno about all that, but it seems to be held on to by both the extreme left and the extreme right. I guess it's just a feature of extremes.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Because the constitution is 'hanging by a thread' only to tinfoil-hat-clad, right-wing fundamentalist mormon conspiracy theorist kooks.

All that matters is who is in teh white house. When GWB was in, my liberal friends all thought that constition was hanging by a thread. Now that Honest Obe is in office, I hear my consertive friends say the same thing.

Oh well. I don't place very much stock in that prophecy at this point in time anyway.

[Vance]

I guess what I am getting at is that if our constitutional rights are somehow hanging by a thread, why is it that we enjoy protective rights as citizens that until now, America has never so greatly enjoyed?

As I see it the difference between now and the past is the violations of peoples rights in the past were the result of other citizens, where as now, it is the Federal Government that is institutionalizing the violation of our constitutional rights.

[Doug the Hutt]

ksfisher,

Your post made me giggle a tad because the statements taught by Prophets, Seers and Revelators in General Conference were accepted by the body of Saints, which includes the thread-hanging-statements attributed to The Prophet. At this point it hardly matters that there's a question on the legitimacy of Joseph's statement -- it was taught by the correct people in the correct venue and accepted repeatedly by the LDS body. I don't know how we can divorce ourselves so easily from it in light of that.

[Jeff K.]

It was heard by the general body, accepted as a talk, but acceptance as a revelation is distinct in that it would appear in a book with the word "doctrine" upon it. Sometimes called "Doctrine and Covenants".

Now if you find it in there, then most assuredly we would consider the issue doctrinal.

[ksfisher]

Doug,

I don't believe that General Conference talks are accepted by the Church as official doctrine or as revelation. My understanding is that for a revelation to be accepted as offical it would be submitted by the First Presidency to the Quorum of the Twelve for approval. Following that it would be submitted to the members of the church in General Conference for a sustaining vote. I believe that all section of the Doctrine and Covenants have been accepted by this process. The White Horse Prophecy has never been accepted in this manner. The fact that various General Authorites have repeated phrases from it does not make it revelation.

[CV75]

I guess what I am getting at is that if our constitutional rights are somehow hanging by a thread, why is it that we enjoy protective rights as citizens that until now, America has never so greatly enjoyed?

Because without exercising the commensurate responsibility, as a group we only enjoy (perceive, appreciate, and apply) the rights to a certain degree. As the understanding of what constitutes responsibility erodes, the thread effectively becomes thinner.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Doug,

I don't believe that General Conference talks are accepted by the Church as official doctrine or as revelation. My understanding is that for a revelation to be accepted as offical it would be submitted by the First Presidency to the Quorum of the Twelve for approval. Following that it would be submitted to the members of the church in General Conference for a sustaining vote. I believe that all section of the Doctrine and Covenants have been accepted by this process. The White Horse Prophecy has never been accepted in this manner. The fact that various General Authorites have repeated phrases from it does not make it revelation.

I would say that that is the process for cannonization. That is a different issue than doctrinal. I do not know if this prophecy appears in any offically produced talks or church published materials. If it does and that offical church logo appears on that, that is a good sign it is doctrinal. Maybe some one on this board can answer that. Does this prophecy appear in any offical church publications?

[bookofmormontruth]

This has been the best explanation in the Ensign (messages approved by 1st Presidency) that I have read in regards to its accuracy and how it relates to us, today.

What do we know about the purported statement of Joseph Smith that the Constitution would hang by a thread and that the elders would save it?

D. Michael Stewart, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, June 1976, 64–65

D. Michael Stewart, Brigham Young University, Department of History The documents show that Joseph Smith did prophesy a number of times that the United States and the Constitution would be imperiled and that the elders would have a hand in saving them. The first known record of the prophecy dates to July 19, 1840, in Nauvoo, when the prophet spoke about the redemption of Zion. Using Doctrine & Covenants 101 as a text, he said, “Even this nation will be on the verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the Constitution is on the brink of ruin this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction.” (Joseph Smith Papers, LDS Church Historical Archives, Box 1, March 10, 1844.)

There are also other documents in Church History files that show that five different early Saints recorded some remarks by the Prophet Joseph Smith on this same prophecy, perhaps voiced by the Prophet a number of times in a number of ways after 1840. Parley P. Pratt wrote in 1841 that the prophet said, “The government is fallen and needs redeeming. It is guilty of Blood and cannot stand as it now is but will come so near desolation as to hang as it were by a single hair!!!!! Then the servants goes [sic] to the nations of the earth, and gathers the strength of the Lord’s house! A mighty army!!!!!! And this is the redemption of Zion when the saints shall have redeemed that government and reinstated it in all its purity and glory!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” (George A. Smith Papers, Church Archives, Box 7, Folder 5, January 21, 1841.)

James Burgess related that the Prophet, while addressing the Nauvoo Legion several miles east of Nauvoo in May 1843, said that “the time would come when the constitution and government would hang by a brittle thread and would be ready to fall into other hands but this people the latter-day saints will step forth and save it.” (James Burgess Journal, 1818–1904, Church Archives, vol. 1—found among loose sermons.)

Orson Hyde recalled that the Prophet predicted that “the time would come that the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow and said he, if the constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language as nearly as I can recollect it.” (JD, 6:150.)

In a Pioneer Day celebration in Ogden in 1871, Eliza R. Snow said, “I heard the prophet say, ‘The time will come when the government of these United States will be so nearly overthrown through its corruption, that the Constitution will hang as it were by a single hair, and the Latter-day Saints—the Elders of Israel—will step forward to its rescue and save it.” (Journal History, MSF 143 #28, July 24, 1871.)

Jedediah M. Grant, during the dark days of threatened invasion of Utah by a federal army, referred to the Prophet’s utterance as he addressed a Mormon Battalion gathering in Salt Lake City, February 6, 1855.

“What did the Prophet Joseph say? When the Constitution shall be tottering we shall be the people to save it from the hand of the foe.” (Deseret News Weekly, January 19, 1870.)

On various occasions, Joseph Smith referred to the Constitution, the country, and destiny of the nation; and there is clear evidence that he anticipated future peril. Furthermore, he pronounced the prophecy at various times and places. Perhaps he himself interchanged the simile “on the brink of ruin,” “hang by a brittle thread,” “hang by a single hair,” etc., to describe the anticipated crisis. It is also clear that the redeemers or rescuers of the Constitution were to be either the Saints generally or priesthood officers specifically.

Since no particular time was given for fulfilling this prophecy, members of the Church have often wondered about its timing. The prophecy clearly indicates a single, identifiable episode yet to come. However, it is helpful for us to constantly be on guard against threats to the central elements of the Constitution. It is not wise to sit by and think that the protection of the Constitution is the problem of someone else at some other time.

In support of this view of “constant vigilance,” it is most instructive to note that Church leaders have seen the Constitution imperiled a number of times. Brigham Young, reflecting on the prophecy of 1868, expressed: “It would not be many years before these words come to pass.” (JD, 12:204.) President John Taylor in 1884 declared: “It may be nearer … than some of us think.” (JD, 25:350.) President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., warned in 1942: “Whether it [the Constitution] shall live or die is now in the balance.” (Conference Report, October 1942, p. 58.)

Students of history and the Constitution know that the Constitution has been imperiled a number of times in its history and has been saved a number of times both by vigorous political action and by vocal public opinion.

Thus, rather than simply wait for the one time when the Constitution shall hang by a thread, Latter-day Saints must continually be vigilant. Our commission to save the Constitution is, like salvation, a continuing task, and Church leaders have pointed out the tools available: analysis of constitutional principles, personal study of the history of our nation, reading the Constitution to children at home and in schools, teaching them self-sacrifice—the principle that makes freedom possible—teaching them their obligations as mature citizens, recognizing and resisting ideologies that threaten constitutional principles, and developing loyalty to principle rather than to men or parties.

Politicians and statesmen must grapple with tough questions, painstakingly familiarize themselves with vital issues, and be decisive; but finally, an antidote to abusive government, to corruption, and to constitutional peril lies in private character. Humble people in prayerful homes will contribute immeasurably to a lasting constitutional government. And it should be apparent that consistent efforts in these areas will prepare us both to continually protect the Constitution and to prepare us for possibly a yet future rendezvous with our Constitution’s destiny.

My question; how the Elders and the Church will "save" the Country and Constitution? Will it be with a Captain Moroni?

On a side note: conservatives in general love that we have these prophecies and that it reflects that we truly love our God, Freedom, Constitution and Family.

[Rob Osborn]

Of note is that if this prophecy stands as valid today, why are we not shouting it from the rooftops? Why are our current church presidency in SLC not proclaiming it? When candidates do run for office who are LDS exclaiming to reclaim this constitution, the church comes out and specifically distances itself from that individual.

When someone states our constitution is hanging by a thread, I am left to think that it is the "last hope", or that the document- even our very rights are in some "last stage" before we lose our total freedom. But if one compares Joseph's day with ours and the difference with which we have rights and are protected, I would tend to think that anyone of any race, gender, religious affiliation, or color is protected now more than in his day. Our society is a society of laws- laws of basic order and ethics. Perhaps I do not see where therefore our constitution hangs in some sort of peril balance. Since the Soviet Union broke up and the commy conspiracies have died down, even some dramatic secret takeover is talked of less these days so I don't see it coming from that angle either.

Even with the terrorist attacks and different laws being passed to try to limit terror activity in this country I do not see any real threat to my constitutional rights. So if it be hanging by a thread, exactly why does it not appear so?

I am beginning to believe that most of it is just peoples own political views and agendas and not anything of real relevence to our day.

[bookofmormontruth]

ksfisher,

Your post made me giggle a tad because the statements taught by Prophets, Seers and Revelators in General Conference were accepted by the body of Saints, which includes the thread-hanging-statements attributed to The Prophet. At this point it hardly matters that there's a question on the legitimacy of Joseph's statement -- it was taught by the correct people in the correct venue and accepted repeatedly by the LDS body. I don't know how we can divorce ourselves so easily from it in light of that.

The members will divorce themselves from it (as seen on this very thread), but the Lord's servants never will.

[Rob Osborn]

This has been the best explanation in the Ensign (messages approved by 1st Presidency) that I have read in regards to its accuracy and how it relates to us, today.

My question; how the Elders and the Church will "save" the Country and Constitution? Will it be with a Captain Moroni?

On a side note: conservatives in general love that we have these prophecies and that it reflects that we truly love our God, Freedom, Constitution and Family.

I too have recently read that article. Of note though is that it was written 35 years ago. I agree with the statement article in general but I think it has continually been misapplied in our current day. Perhaps there will come a time in our future when it does hand by some thread, but we must also realize that when it does come that time I would suspect our presidency of the church to be quite specific about it. Basically, in my lifetime (and I am approaching middle age) there has been no instance I am aware of with the presidency in SLC making any claim about the constitution hanging by a thread. As far as I know, the brethren have been silent on this issue for a few decades.

[bookofmormontruth]

Of note is that if this prophecy stands as valid today, why are we not shouting it from the rooftops? Why are our current church presidency in SLC not proclaiming it? When candidates do run for office who are LDS exclaiming to reclaim this constitution, the church comes out and specifically distances itself from that individual.

When someone states our constitution is hanging by a thread, I am left to think that it is the "last hope", or that the document- even our very rights are in some "last stage" before we lose our total freedom. But if one compares Joseph's day with ours and the difference with which we have rights and are protected, I would tend to think that anyone of any race, gender, religious affiliation, or color is protected now more than in his day. Our society is a society of laws- laws of basic order and ethics. Perhaps I do not see where therefore our constitution hangs in some sort of peril balance. Since the Soviet Union broke up and the commy conspiracies have died down, even some dramatic secret takeover is talked of less these days so I don't see it coming from that angle either.

Even with the terrorist attacks and different laws being passed to try to limit terror activity in this country I do not see any real threat to my constitutional rights. So if it be hanging by a thread, exactly why does it not appear so?

I am beginning to believe that most of it is just peoples own political views and agendas and not anything of real relevence to our day.

Rob,

Great questions. At the risk of being called a "right-winger conspiracy nut", I will say this:

On the surface it won't appear so, that is why we have to rely on the Lord's Servants who see the secret combinations of our day and are specific of the warnings years in advance.

President Benson endorses "None Dare Call It Conspiracy", by Gary Allen.

The book links the communist "conspiracy" to the much larger New World Order "conspiracy".

More "conspiracy".

And to avoid making this too political. You can do this search on your own. I don't appreciate or support the "title", but search on youtube "Ezra Taft Benson Vs Barack Obama" and see modern examples on how our Constitution is viewed by our "leaders" and how our weakened economy is part of the plan.

[bookofmormontruth]

I too have recently read that article. Of note though is that it was written 35 years ago. I agree with the statement article in general but I think it has continually been misapplied in our current day. Perhaps there will come a time in our future when it does hand by some thread, but we must also realize that when it does come that time I would suspect our presidency of the church to be quite specific about it. Basically, in my lifetime (and I am approaching middle age) there has been no instance I am aware of with the presidency in SLC making any claim about the constitution hanging by a thread. As far as I know, the brethren have been silent on this issue for a few decades.

1986

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpbiuXhcFP8

[ksfisher]

Perhaps a question to ask is, why did Joseph Smith never feel inclined to include this revelation in with the other revelations which he received from the Lord. Onehundred and thirty-something other times he felt that revelations which he received were of such import that he included them in the Doctrine and Covenants, which all members of the Church accept as scripture. This one he did not. Any record we have of Joseph Smith making such a prophecy about the constitution hanging by a thread comes from secondary sources, nothing directly from him.

[bookofmormontruth]

Perhaps a question to ask is, why did Joseph Smith never feel inclined to include this revelation in with the other revelations which he received from the Lord. Onehundred and thirty-something other times he felt that revelations which he received were of such import that he included them in the Doctrine and Covenants, which all members of the Church accept as scripture. This one he did not. Any record we have of Joseph Smith making such a prophecy about the constitution hanging by a thread comes from secondary sources, nothing directly from him.

I don't know.

I can only speculate, that not all revelations and prophecies are made public or added to the official doctrines. Which is only a reflection on us. We can't even accept the official current prophecies and revelations.

If the secondary sources are also Prophets and of one who personally knew Joseph Smith, I am going to take a leap of faith and believe in them.

I also posted earlier that the Joseph Smith Papers seem to verify this prophecy, though it looks like it hasn't be substantiated as of yet.

[Mordecai]

I don't think our country has followed the Constitution for decades. Justices are the most powerful people in the country, dictating what the Constitution "says" whether it says it or not. A bunch of garbage has been added to the Constitution that didn't come from Congress, like "separation of Church and state," and, the "right" to abortions, not to mention the "right" to produce pornography. That, among other things, represents a huge build up of federal power to oppress state rights. The Constitution is hanging by a thread, in that it barely has any sway on the way we are governed anymore. Even the 17th amendment was an affront to the principles underlying the Constitution, so some of the corruption has been completely legal.

[SkepticTheist]

I think the key that everybody misses, as far as I have been able to see, is that in the Parley P. Pratt account and in the Knowlton-Coray account, the point is that the nation would be on the brink of an overthrow of the government, not that the "Constitution" itself would be in jeopardy. By the time the nation and government would be in danger of an overthrow, the constitution would be long abandoned and would be given lip service. In this sense, the constitution hanging by a thread prophecies aren't so much about the constitution as much as they are about using the "constitution" as a symbol of our nation in general, and that the nation and government would be in danger of an overthrow, and would be ready to fall into other hands. THIS is what the elders of Israel would step forth to prevent, either militarily or otherwise. This is really what we need to be on the lookout for, not so much the incremental whittling away of the constitution. We need to be ready to step forward to save the government when it is in danger of an overthrow. At that time, it seems that an army of all the elders from all over the whole planet will assemble to come to the US to fight and redeem the country.

Knowlton-Coray version:

"We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace until the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch-tower, and then shall they begin to say within themselves, “What need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace?” Then the Enemy shall come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad. When the seed of these Twelve Olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the Nations of the whole Earth [D&C 101:10-12,43-62]. Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground. And when the Constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff upon which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction.

Then shall the Lord say, Go tell all my servants who are the strength of mine house, my young men and middle aged &c, come to the Land of my vineyard and fight the battle of the Lord. Then the Kings and Queens shall come. Then the rulers of the Earth shall come then shall [all] saints come. Yea, the Foreign saints shall come to fight for the land of my vineyard. For in this thing shall be their safety, and they will have no power to choose but will come as a man fleeth from a sudden destruction."

James Burgess version:

"In the month of May 1843 several miles east of Nauvoo the Nauvoo Legion was on parade and review, at the close of which Joseph Smith made some remarks upon our condition as a people, and upon our future prospects, contrasting our present condition with our past trials and persecutions by the hands of our enemies. Also upon the Constitution and Government of the United States, stating that the time would come when the Constitution and Government would hang by a brittle thread and would be ready to fall into other hands, but this people the Latter day Saints will step forth and save it . . ."

Parley P. Pratt version:

"The government is fallen and needs redeeming. It is guilty of blood and cannot stand as it is now is, but will come so near desolation as to hang as it were by a single hair! Then the servants go to the nations of the earth, and gather the strength of the Lord’s house! A mighty army! And this is the redemption of Zion when the saints shall have redeemed that government and reinstated it in all its purity and glory![D&C 101:43]"

As you can see, in more than one version, the parable of the 12 olive trees in D&C 101 is brought up, and is intimately connected with the Constitution Hanging by a Thread, and if you carefully read this parable, it has all the elements of the idea that a thief would come in the night unexpectedly to break down the defenses and try to destroy the nation because those in control of the country had fallen asleep and had forgotten about the country's defenses, and would more concerned about dismantling the defenses in favor of economic concerns. This is what we need to look out for.

We are all aware of the many references in the past about our constitution hanging by a thread. It is not my intention to make this a political debate even though this statement has been involved in certain politics like Glen Beck, Rex Rammel, etc. It is my intention to ask if this statement is relevent today- is our constitution hanging by a thread? Please specify exactly what or why if you think it is.

When one thinks about it, our constitution is a legal document that provides us with the necessary principles that protect our individual rights and priveledges in society. I keep hearing this statement as now being that time when our constitution is hanging by a thread. But, then I go out, go freely to worship in my LDS church- something btw, that was not protected back in Joseph Smith's day. I also can go and watch a movie with a negro and not be concerned if he would have to go into a separate theatre. I also can compete equally with a person for a job position regardless of that person being black, hispanic, or even a women.

I guess what I am getting at is that if our constitutional rights are somehow hanging by a thread, why is it that we enjoy protective rights as citizens that until now, America has never so greatly enjoyed?