LDS Church Growth

[Senator]

So why are you getting your Church 'news' from Anti-Mormons?

Frankly I wish it were harder to become a member - say a years worth of attendance at Church first, that would pretty much insure activity levels.

Man, you really want to reduce the baptismal numbers down to a slow drip.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Many Anti-LDS give an impression that the Church is imploding..... Is that really the case?

When ever you are hate filled enough to be Anti-anything you will make such nonfactual statements, Anti-Mormons so it to LDS, Anti-Jehovah Witnesses do it to JW's, ect, ect

[cinepro]

Do you know where one could find this data?

Jehovah's Witnesses (founded 1872):

As of August 2010, Jehovah's Witnesses report an average membership of approximately 7.2 million actively involved in preaching, with a peak of 7.5 million.[1][2] Jehovah's Witnesses have an active presence in most countries, though they do not form a large part of the population of any country.[3]

To be counted, an individual must be a publisher, and report some amount of time in the ministry, normally at least an hour per month. Under certain circumstances, such as chronic and debilitating illness, members may report increments of 15 minutes. Jehovah's Witnesses' preaching activity is self-reported, and members are directed to submit a 'Field Service Report' each month. Baptized members who fail to submit a report every month are referred to as 'irregular'. Those who do not submit a report for six continuous months are referred to as 'inactive'.[4] In 2010, these reports indicated a total of more than 1.6 billion hours of preaching, resulting in an increase of approximately 300,000 baptized members.[1]

Seventh Day Adventist (founded ~1844)

Church Membership 16,307,880

Christian Science

The church went through a period of rapid growth during the first half of the 20th century. Membership leveled out by 1950 and has since gradually declined. "...the closing of hundreds of branch churches over the past two decades suggests that attrition is the biggest threat the Church faces." 19 Current membership data is unknown; the Church does not publish statistics. One source estimates about 400,000 people follow Christian Science teachings, although many are not affiliated with a congregation.

Scientologist (founded 1953):

In 2005, the Church of Scientology stated its worldwide membership to be eight million, although that number included people who took only the introductory course and did not continue on.[82] In 2007 a Church official claimed 3.5 million members in the United States...

[cinepro]

Many Anti-LDS give an impression that the Church is imploding..... Is that really the case?<

JMS

Just so I'm clear, can you reference some of these anti-Mormon claims? Who, exactly, is predicting this, and what are they saying?

[maupayman]

Jehovah's Witnesses (founded 1872):

Seventh Day Adventist (founded ~1844)

Christian Science

Scientologist (founded 1953):

Thanks

[Calm]

The number of convert baptisms is increasing, but both missionary productivity and the total number of baptisms remain well below the levels of the early 1990s. Even more cause for concern is the fact that little of the growth that occurs is real: while nearly 80 percent of LDS convert baptisms occur outside of the United States, barely one in four international converts becomes an active or participating member of the Church. Natural LDS growth has also fallen as the LDS birth rate has progressively declined. LDS church membership has continued to increase, but the rate of growth has slowed considerably. "Sociologist Armand Mauss estimates that 50 percent of LDS converts within the United States stop attending within a year of conversion, and 75 percent of foreign converts fail to attend after a year."

We need to do a much better job with retention or I can foresee a time when we will be a Church with 20 million members, but only 5 million active members.

Are you the writer of Cumorah.com? Otherwise you are cut and pasting without giving credit, something you've done before.

[Tapir Whisperer]

Are you the writer of Cumorah.com? Otherwise you are cut and pasting without giving credit, something you've done before.

Never been to Cumorah.com. Sorry to disappoint.

[Calm]

Never been to Cumorah.com. Sorry to disappoint.

That is too bad then, because that means you are likely plagiarizing, whether from that spot or another:

The number of convert baptisms increased to 272,845 in 2006, but both missionary productivity and the total number of baptisms remained well below the levels of the early 1990s. Even more concerning is that only a fraction of baptized members remain active. Sociologist Armand Mauss stated that "75 percent of foreign [LDS] converts are not attending church within a year of conversion. In the United States, 50 percent of the converts fail to attend after a year".^[9] As 80 percent of LDS convert baptisms occur outside of the United States, this means that only 30% of LDS converts worldwide become active or participating members of the Church. Natural LDS growth has also fallen as the LDS birth rate has progressively declined. LDS church membership has continued to increase, but the rate of growth has slowed considerably.

http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?target=church_growth_articles&story_id=8

[Tapir Whisperer]

That is too bad then, because that means you are likely plagiarizing, whether from that spot or another: http://www.cumorah.c...cles&story_id=8

My info came from http://www.mormonwiki.org/Population_and_growth_rate, but I'm glad to see the results and findings were mirrored at cumorah.com. This just adds credence to the fact that we need to do a better job at retention, or, as I previously stated, we will shortly be a Church with 20 million members and only 5 million active.

[ELF1024]

My info came from http://www.mormonwik...and_growth_rate, but I'm glad to see the results and findings were mirrored at cumorah.com. This just adds credence to the fact that we need to do a better job at retention, or, as I previously stated, we will shortly be a Church with 20 million members and only 5 million active.

That's assuming that the information is correct.

The activity rate in our ward is higher than that.

[Calm]

My info came from http://www.mormonwik...and_growth_rate, but I'm glad to see the results and findings were mirrored at cumorah.com. This just adds credence to the fact that we need to do a better job at retention, or, as I previously stated, we will shortly be a Church with 20 million members and only 5 million active.

The "results and findings" were David Stewart's original work which then the Evangelical owner of mormonwiki borrowed (and gave attribution properly, unlike yourself). I am curious as to why an LDS chooses to rely on an anti-mormon site rather than attempting to find the source, something easily done. Not your first time either with your first post being an unattributed cut and pasted list of quotes from the mrm website.

[Skylla]

The number of convert baptisms is increasing, but both missionary productivity and the total number of baptisms remain well below the levels of the early 1990s. Even more cause for concern is the fact that little of the growth that occurs is real: while nearly 80 percent of LDS convert baptisms occur outside of the United States, barely one in four international converts becomes an active or participating member of the Church. Natural LDS growth has also fallen as the LDS birth rate has progressively declined. LDS church membership has continued to increase, but the rate of growth has slowed considerably. "Sociologist Armand Mauss estimates that 50 percent of LDS converts within the United States stop attending within a year of conversion, and 75 percent of foreign converts fail to attend after a year."

We need to do a much better job with retention or I can foresee a time when we will be a Church with 20 million members, but only 5 million active members.

You are still posting material from someone else without giving them credit. If you keep it up, you will be suspended.

Skylla

[Tapir Whisperer]

The "results and findings" were David Stewart's original work which then the Evangelical owner of mormonwiki borrowed (and gave attribution properly, unlike yourself). I am curious as to why an LDS chooses to rely on an anti-mormon site rather than attempting to find the source, something easily done.

I think you answered the question yourself. As you previously stated and conceeded, the info is exactly the same on both sites. Also, a quick google also pulls up the exact same info on a number of LDS sites. I think you will readily admit that accuracy is the most important thing when it comes to posting info, regardless of the source. I've always found it useful and informative to not limit yourself to one side when you are looking for knowledge.

Not to distract from the topic, what are some of your suggestions to increase the retention rate? I think you will agree with me that this is an area for huge improvement.

[Calm]

I think you answered the question yourself. As you previously stated and conceeded, the info is exactly the same on both sites.

It is not the same, one is original work, the other is cherry picked quotes placed in a greater context of an anti-mormon website for a completely different purpose.

I've always found it useful and informative to not limit yourself to one side when you are looking for knowledge.

And yet you never visited cumorah.com, which is where the original work by the man who actually did the research is posted. Not really impressed by your incomplete research methods.

[Tapir Whisperer]

And yet you never visited cumorah.com, which is where the original work by the man who actually did the research is posted. Not really impressed by your incomplete research methods.

[Calm]

Let's try to keep it professional, okay?

Then no more quoting without attribution, right? Because that is very unprofessional.

As for ceding accuracy, that is one man's work....it may or may not be accurate. The professional thing to do is to compare it with other studies available as well as checking out methodology, not to assume its accuracy automatically.

[Tapir Whisperer]

Then no more quoting without attribution, right? Because that is very unprofessional.

As for ceding accuracy, that is one man's work....it may or may not be accurate. The professional thing to do is to compare it with other studies available as well as checking out methodology, not to assume its accuracy automatically.

Agreed. I accept your apology.

[Calm]

Agreed. I accept your apology.

And where was an apology given? You were the one in error, not me.

As far as "pot shots", I am equal opportunity anti-plagiarism, no matter what the "quest" may be. It is not a matter of "offense" but proper attribution.

[Tapir Whisperer]

And where was an apology given? You were the one in error, not me.

Please try and be a little nicer when responding. You will find in life and in your profession that people will be much more responsive with a little kindness. I have already acknowledged that I should have give a citation and I will not make the same mistake again.

Time to move on and not get off track. What say you?

[SilverKnight]

Let's try to keep it professional, okay?

Professional as, say, cutting and pasting from anti-sites and creating sock puppets with snarky nicknames?

[Tapir Whisperer]

....... and creating sock puppets with snarky nicknames?

Sock puppet as in "SilverKnight"??

[SilverKnight]

Sock puppet as in "SilverKnight"??

A 5 year old, 2700 post, sock puppet.

[Tapir Whisperer]

A 5 year old, 2700 post, sock puppet.

Funny, you don't look a day older than 4.

Seriously, I've only been on these boards a couple of days and I have made some rookie mistakes as many people have pointed out (thank you). However, I didn't expect so many of the posters to be so angry, hostile, bitter and very defensive. Let's all lighten up a bit. Just remember, "Men are that they might have joy".

[todd520]

What other corporate style faiths are imploding as part of the general de-churching of America?

The below 2011 growth stats were published by the National Council of Churches.

You'll notice that several EV churches are reporting drops in membership

1. The Catholic Church, 68,503,456 members, up .57 percent.

2. Southern Baptist Convention,16,160,088 members, down .42 percent.

3. The United Methodist Church, 7,774,931 members, down 1.01 percent.

4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6,058,907 members, up 1.42 percent.

5. The Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members, no membership updates reported.

6. National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc, 5,000,000 members, no membership updates reported.

7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 4,542,868 members, down 1.96 percent.

8. National Baptist Convention of America, Inc., 3,500,000 members, no membership updates reported.

9. Assemblies of God, 2,914,669 members, up .52 percent.

10. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), 2,770,730 members, down 2.61 percent.

11. African Methodist Episcopal Church, 2,500,000 members, no membership updates reported.

11. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America, 2,500,000 members, no membership updates reported.

13. The Lutheran Church-- Missouri Synod (LCMS), 2,312,111 members, down 1.08 percent.

14. The Episcopal Church, 2,006,343 members, down 2.48 percent.

15. Churches of Christ, 1,639,495 members, no membership updates reported.

16. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, 1,500,000 members, no membership updates reported.

17. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc., 1,500,000 members, no membership updates reported.

18. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church, 1,400,000 members, members, no membership updates reported.

19. American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A., 1,310,505 members, down 1.55 percent.

20. Jehovah

[Tapir Whisperer]

The below 2011 growth stats were published by the National Council of Churches.

You'll notice that several EV churches are reporting drops in membership

1. The Catholic Church, 68,503,456 members, up .57 percent.

2. Southern Baptist Convention,16,160,088 members, down .42 percent.

3. The United Methodist Church, 7,774,931 members, down 1.01 percent.

4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6,058,907 members, up 1.42 percent.

Interesting statistic. Do you know how the Church calculated that 1.42% growth rate? Does this take into account people that have been excommunicated and/or requested to be removed from the rolls? It seems to me that with only the birth rate taken into consideration the growth of the Church should be higher than 1.42%.