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Joseph Smith Today?


Ceeboo

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Good morning all,

Over the weekend, I had an interesting converstaion with a few neighbors/friends concerning our perspective beliefs/opinions/thoughts about those who have passed (Polycarp, Hitler and Luther are a few examples of the many people that came up during this conversation)

This got me thinking about what your opinions/thoughts/perspectives are concerning Mr. Smith.

If you would like to share your views with me/us:

Where is Mr. Smith now?

What is he doing now?

Anthing else I should have asked?

Thanks and peace,

Ceeboo

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Good morning all,

Over the weekend, I had an interesting converstaion with a few neighbors/friends concerning our perspective beliefs/opinions/thoughts about those who have passed (Polycarp, Hitler and Luther are a few examples of the many people that came up during this conversation)

This got me thinking about what your opinions/thoughts/perspectives are concerning Mr. Smith.

If you would like to share your views with me/us:

Where is Mr. Smith now?

What is he doing now?

Anthing else I should have asked?

Thanks and peace,

Ceeboo

I believe that Joseph Smith is in the spirit world still working for the the salvation and exaltation of the people here on earth. Former President Wilford Woodruff reported an experience he had when the post-mortal Joseph appeared to him in a vision. He was able to ask Joseph a question.

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Where is Mr. Smith now?

Joseph is in Paradise (Spirit World). To our knowledge, he has not yet been resurrected.

What is he doing now?

Joseph is preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to those who either had not heard it while on earth or who, having heard it, rejected it preliminarily, but who were good and honest in their lives.

Lehi

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...Anthing else I should have asked?

...

Hi C,

You should ask this:

If Joseph were to come back now would he agree with all the decisions and teachings of the present leadership of the church?

John Koyle died in 1949. Some LDS believe was a true prophet with an amazing gift of dreams. Koyle was told to NEVER write down anything, so all that we have is what other people recollect hearing him say. He predicted that Joseph would in fact come back-- probably just as a spirit.

Here are a few Koyle "all is not well in Zion" predictions that people recorded:

Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together.

In the end there will be a great apostasy in the Church. A rift in leadership will cause many members to leave. Something will happen to make members congregate in and around the churches, and at various other locations to discuss and ponder the great disturbing changes occurring. This will mark the commencement of the time of problems for the Church, as well as the time of apostasy.

The Bishop told of an interview [in a dream] with the Prophet Joseph in Salt Lake City. The two of them were seeking out the latter general authorities. The Bishop asked Joseph what he was going to do. Joseph's answer was, "I'm going to release them, every last man-jack one of them." (A man-jack is a mule that must be castrated or cut off to remove their unreconcilable stubbornness to Godly direction.) Joseph then stated, "They had their chance and failed!"

Richard

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If Joseph were to come back now would he agree with all the decisions and teachings of the present leadership of the church?

He would stand with and support the current prophet.

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John Koyle died in 1949. Some LDS believe was a true prophet with an amazing gift of dreams. Koyle was told to NEVER write down anything, so all that we have is what other people recollect hearing him say. He predicted that Joseph would in fact come back-- probably just as a spirit.

Here are a few Koyle "all is not well in Zion" predictions that people recorded:

Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together.

In the end there will be a great apostasy in the Church. A rift in leadership will cause many members to leave. Something will happen to make members congregate in and around the churches, and at various other locations to discuss and ponder the great disturbing changes occurring. This will mark the commencement of the time of problems for the Church, as well as the time of apostasy.

The Bishop told of an interview [in a dream] with the Prophet Joseph in Salt Lake City. The two of them were seeking out the latter general authorities. The Bishop asked Joseph what he was going to do. Joseph's answer was, "I'm going to release them, every last man-jack one of them." (A man-jack is a mule that must be castrated or cut off to remove their unreconcilable stubbornness to Godly direction.) Joseph then stated, "They had their chance and failed!"

How does one reconcile there "prophecies" that were never recorded or confirmed as revelation through the accepted means with the teachings that the Priesthood and the Church will never be lost to Great Apostasy again?

I taught a lesson on The Gifts of the Spirit today in our wards Gospel Essential class and we talked about prophesy and revelation, the important thing to remember is that Prophesy and Revelation will never conflict with the scriptures if it does, one must consider that this is an imitation from Satan instead of legitimate revelation from God.

This is the importance of scripture study and seeking confirmation of the things we are taught, they protect us from deceptions. I feel that this is a deception not a legitimate revelation, if it was it would come through the President of the Church not a Bishop. As the scriptures tell us only the Prophet (President of the Church) can receive such revelations, and no one can receive revelations for someone they do not preside over. So a Bishop cannot receive revelation for the whole Church only for himself, his family, and his ward.

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1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah.

Jesus' anointed, "that Prophet and Seer,"

Blessed to open the last dispensation;

Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

CHORUS.

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven,

Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain,

Mingling with God's he can plan for his brethren,

Death cannot conquer the hero again.

2. Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;

Honored and blest is his ever great name;

Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,

Stain Illinois[4], while the earth lauds his fame.

Hail to the Prophet, &c.

3. Great is his glory, and endless his priesthood,

Ever and ever the keys he will hold;

Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,

Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Hail to the Prophet, &c.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;

Earth must atone for the blood of that man!

Wake up the world for the conflict of justice,

Millions shall know "brother Joseph" again.

Hail to the Prophet, &c.

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1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah.

Jesus' anointed, "that Prophet and Seer,"

Blessed to open the last dispensation;

Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

CHORUS.

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven,

Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain,

Mingling with God's he can plan for his brethren,

Death cannot conquer the hero again.

2. Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;

Honored and blest is his ever great name;

Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,

Stain Illinois[4], while the earth lauds his fame.

Hail to the Prophet, &c.

3. Great is his glory, and endless his priesthood,

Ever and ever the keys he will hold;

Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,

Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Hail to the Prophet, &c.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;

Earth must atone for the blood of that man!

Wake up the world for the conflict of justice,

Millions shall know "brother Joseph" again.

Hail to the Prophet, &c.

Wow!

?????

Peace,

Ceeboo

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Wow!

?????

Peace,

Ceeboo

Unfortunately, I didn't write it. William W. Phelps, who was an apostle at the time did. The official version the Church uses replaces "stain Illinois" with "plead unto heaven."

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Hi C,

You should ask this:

If Joseph were to come back now would he agree with all the decisions and teachings of the present leadership of the church?

John Koyle died in 1949. Some LDS believe was a true prophet with an amazing gift of dreams. Koyle was told to NEVER write down anything, so all that we have is what other people recollect hearing him say. He predicted that Joseph would in fact come back-- probably just as a spirit.

Here are a few Koyle "all is not well in Zion" predictions that people recorded:

Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together.

In the end there will be a great apostasy in the Church. A rift in leadership will cause many members to leave. Something will happen to make members congregate in and around the churches, and at various other locations to discuss and ponder the great disturbing changes occurring. This will mark the commencement of the time of problems for the Church, as well as the time of apostasy.

The Bishop told of an interview [in a dream] with the Prophet Joseph in Salt Lake City. The two of them were seeking out the latter general authorities. The Bishop asked Joseph what he was going to do. Joseph's answer was, "I'm going to release them, every last man-jack one of them." (A man-jack is a mule that must be castrated or cut off to remove their unreconcilable stubbornness to Godly direction.) Joseph then stated, "They had their chance and failed!"

Richard

Might I ask, are you a believer in the Dream Mine in Payson? There are a few Koyle supporters who don't believe the prophets of today are legit. I don't know any personally, but there is a movement. Many of them are polygs.

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Ceeboo:

In the Spirit world.

Preparing for the Second Coming.

Why not? While Catholics and LDS have disagreements on the need for a Restoration of the Gospel. Nothing I know would preclude the Catholics and the LDS agreeing on that JS, or any other person whom has lived on this earth, from helping the Lord in whatever way the Lord wanted.

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Ceeboo:

In the Spirit world.

Preparing for the Second Coming.

Hey again Sometime

(Really wish you would use the quote function :P )

Are you saying that Mr. Smith and Jesus are in the same place now doing the same things now?

Both are in Spirit world waiting, preparing fot the Second Coming?

Are they coming together (Jesus and Joseph?)

Peace,

Ceeboo

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Hey again Sometime

(Really wish you would use the quote function :P )

Are you saying that Mr. Smith and Jesus are in the same place now doing the same things now?

Both are in Spirit world waiting, preparing fot the Second Coming?

Are they coming together (Jesus and Joseph?)

Peace,

Ceeboo

Yah, they both be in the same place, but we are not sure if Joseph has a ressurected body yet or not. Both are busy teaching those who are dead who didn't get their full opportunity in life and such. But nah, I am not sure if Joseph is waiting for the second coming... he might be there with all the other prophets and all, but the only truly important figure during the second coming is Jesus Christ.

Yah, we believe the dead are doing missionary work =).

Best Wishes,

TAO

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Brother Joseph is in the Spirit World, doing much the same thing I imagine St. Jerome, Martin Luther, and Mother Teresa doing: namely, teaching those who know less while learning from those who know more.

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Might I ask, are you a believer in the Dream Mine in Payson? There are a few Koyle supporters who don't believe the prophets of today are legit. I don't know any personally, but there is a movement. Many of them are polygs.

Hi Sevenbak,

Yes, I have stock in, and do believe in the "Dream Mine" just east of Salem, Utah. Its legal name is the "Relief Mining Company".

Virtually all of the board of directors of the Relief Mine are active LDS, and this has always been the case.

But as you say, many non LDS "Mormons" have stock in the mine.

It would not be fair for the Lord to give authority over His church to Gentiles, and then give a clear Word of the Lord revelation predicting that they would fail. Since Koyle was told not to record any of his dreams, one can honestly argue that the above quotes are not necessarily what Koyle really said. I accept that.

The purpose of the Mine is to bring forth Gold AFTER the United States government fails-- gold that will be used to build up Zion and its laws. The work of the Mine does not intersect with the work of the church, and has deliberately been a very quiet work.

We live in a society that is so full of hype, spin, deceptive advertizing, etc etc that how can anyone condemn someone else for being careful with the intense claims of guaranteed correctness of the LDS church leaders?

As one who has studied the scriptures a lot, I am certain myself that the scriptures do NOT support the doctrine that the leaders of the LORD's church will never be allowed to make serious errors.

And the Book of Mormon clearly speaks of a latter-day shift in which the Lord turns against the Gentiles. It is easy to believe this could happen even at the highest levels.

One should read about the many dreams that proved correct of John Koyle before automatically condemning him.

Richard

erichard: No proselyting on this board.

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Ceeboo:

"Are you saying that Mr. Smith and Jesus are in the same place now doing the same things now?

Both are in Spirit world waiting, preparing fot the Second Coming?

Are they coming together (Jesus and Joseph?)".

Better?

Yes I believe Brother Joseph is working with Christ in the Spirit world.

Unknown at this time. But I believe Joseph along with selected other dead will return with Christ.

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Interesting concept, the Spirit World! So what sources of information do they have in the Spirit World? I would assume there is much more information about the Atonement in the Spirit World than in our own world. And if that's the case wouldn't there be a better opportunity to convert, and baptize, in the Spirit World than in our own? I know there aren't baptisms going on in the Spirit World (that's our job!) but imagine all that information to learn about and grow from.

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Hi Sevenbak,

Yes, I have stock in, and do believe in the "Dream Mine" just east of Salem, Utah. Its legal name is the "Relief Mining Company".

Virtually all of the board of directors of the Relief Mine are active LDS, and this has always been the case.

But as you say, many non LDS "Mormons" have stock in the mine.

It would not be fair for the Lord to give authority over His church to Gentiles, and then give a clear Word of the Lord revelation predicting that they would fail. Since Koyle was told not to record any of his dreams, one can honestly argue that the above quotes are not necessarily what Koyle really said. I accept that.

The purpose of the Mine is to bring forth Gold AFTER the United States government fails-- gold that will be used to build up Zion and its laws. The work of the Mine does not intersect with the work of the church, and has deliberately been a very quiet work.

We live in a society that is so full of hype, spin, deceptive advertizing, etc etc that how can anyone condemn someone else for being careful with the intense claims of guaranteed correctness of the LDS church leaders?

As one who has studied the scriptures a lot, I am certain myself that the scriptures do NOT support the doctrine that the leaders of the LORD's church will never be allowed to make serious errors.

And the Book of Mormon clearly speaks of a latter-day shift in which the Lord turns against the Gentiles. It is easy to believe this could happen even at the highest levels.

One should read about the many dreams that proved correct of John Koyle before automatically condemning him.

Richard

Well, then you probably already know this, but I would be very wary. Koyle was a Bishop, and his "revelations" led many away from the Church. He was excommunicated under the direction of the First Presidency, and twice, the FP had to publish statements in the Deseret News to warn the members of his pull. Here's what they said.

"...when visions, dreams, tongues, prophecy, impressions or an extraordinary gift of inspiration conveys something out of harmony with the accepted revelations of the church . . . it is not of God, no matter how plausible it may appear. . . . It is our duty to warn against mining schemes which have no warrant for success."

Hiram Page claimed revelations for the church too, and he was reproved by Joseph Smith. He repented. Koyle did not, and continued advance his followers. My advice is to be careful and follow the living prophets.

Many stakeholders and leadership in the Relief Mine are Polygamists. Were it me, I'd run as fast as I could in the opposite direction.

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Interesting concept, the Spirit World! So what sources of information do they have in the Spirit World?

The same sources we have the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, if there was any additional resources then they couldn't convert. Conversion requires faith if the SW had any more evidence of the existence of Christ than morality then Baptisms for the Dead couldn't work properly.

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One should read about the many dreams that proved correct of John Koyle before automatically condemning him.

Knowing that he claimed as a Bishop to receive prophesy for the entire world, and that this teachings of his is against the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, is all I need to reject and rebuke his teachings.

The fact that he was excommunicated from the Church for his "revelations" is all the evidence one needs against Mr. Koyle IMO.

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