Jason Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 not the same. One we know is from God. The other we only know is from a business that is owned by Gods Church.I didn't say it was the same. I asked what purpose it serves. Link to comment
Jaybear Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Why am I not surprised that you are looking at the quote in the most negative way possible? Is that the creak of shifting goalposts I hear? You said - show you a BYU student who was kicked off the team for having sex and you would concede that its not about BYU's reputation.You've been shown. Concession? You haven't disclosed why Koz was kicked off. In any event, I was referring to the priorities of the current BYU administration. What happened to Mac was ancient history. Link to comment
WalkerW Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 If you don't want to attend a school with a "draconian" code/standard, then feel free to apply elsewhere, there are plenty of choices. If you thought that you could live under this code, and then decided otherwise after attending BYU for awhile, then transfer to another school....students do it all the time.I'm not sure what all the hoopla is about....he knew the rules, he knew the consequences, he violated the rules and has accepted the consequences.I'm with you on this. Link to comment
ERayR Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Utter nonsense.I think the punishment is excessive. I also think the punishment was meted out more to preserve the reputation of BYU, than for the spiritual heath and well being of Mr. Davies. Period.If you can't express and articulate your disagreement without engaging in personal attacks, don't bother.Obviously you do not think it is important to keep ones word once it is given. How sad. Link to comment
ERayR Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 From the depictions of Christ that I have seen, it appears that he would be in violation of the BYU honor code as well for his long hair and beard. Wow, to think that an LDS school would classify Christ as being in violation of an honor codeFor the record, I am an ex LDS member who has no problem with BYU's honor code....then again I didn't attend BYU and thus was never subject to it. If you don't want to attend a school with a "draconian" code/standard, then feel free to apply elsewhere, there are plenty of choices. If you thought that you could live under this code, and then decided otherwise after attending BYU for awhile, then transfer to another school....students do it all the time.I'm not sure what all the hoopla is about....he knew the rules, he knew the consequences, he violated the rules and has accepted the consequences.Those depictions are not necessarily acurate. Link to comment
ERayR Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I don't have a problem with dress and grooming codes. But since you profess to be a rational person, what rational purpose is served by not allowing beards and staches.I see one can be immoral as long as they are dressed and groomed well. OK. Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (In response to Jaybear, who said that he, in contrast to BYU, has "the 19-year-old athlete's interest at heart") Surely teaching Mr. Davies that there are consequences for breaking your word, and that being a star athlete doesn't mitigate them, is in his best interest.Ding, ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding! Tell him what he's won, Bob! Link to comment
Jaybear Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Ding, ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding! Tell him what he's won, Bob! Wrong. Stoning or castration would also be a highly effective means of communication a lesson to Mr. Davies, but that does not necessarily mean that such a lesson is in his best interest. Link to comment
ERayR Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Wrong. Stoning or castration would also be a highly effective means of communication a lesson to Mr. Davies, but that does not necessarily mean that such a lesson is in his best interest.Again those were not penalties prescribed in the honor code. Why do you have such difficulty in recognizing that? Link to comment
Amulek Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 You haven't disclosed why Koz was kicked off. Like I said, that Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Wrong. Stoning or castration would also be a highly effective means of communication a lesson to Mr. Davies, but that does not necessarily mean that such a lesson is in his best interest.Oh, please! I thought the Honor Code was fairly simple and straightforward ... now you're telling me that stoning and castration are actually in the fine print, huh? (I will say this, though: now that I know what's really in the Honor Code, I am rather glad BYU didn't let me in! ) Link to comment
Mudcat Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I haven't read the last 6 pages. I heard about this topic on national news a few times. I applaud BYU for sticking to their guns. Link to comment
Walden Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Those depictions are not necessarily acurate.Yes, agreed. I realize that the white, blue-eyed, blond portrait of christ as depicted in the vast majority of western christian religious art is not indicative of the actual population of that area at that time.Actuality, he more likely resembled this portrait of christ Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Walden:Maybe, maybe not. It is interesting that Jesus is represented differently in pretty much how the differing cultures are. Black cultures view him as Black, Oriental cultures view him as Oriental, Hispanic Cultures view him as Hispanic, etc., etc..Me, I don't care what he looked like as long as he is the Christ. Link to comment
Mordecai Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 ...Stoning or castration would also be a highly effective means of communication a lesson to Mr. Davies...True! Why didn't I think of that!? Clearly, taking away a privilege no one is ever entitled to is the same as murder or removing someone's family jewels! What a brilliantly non-false analogy. Link to comment
Jeff K. Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I think that people are insincere when they say that the punishment is unreasonable. They would have complained regardless of what BYU did. They produce no rational thought process as to what is severe, they overlook the issue of fairness, acknowledgement that all were aware of the penalties or issues, they even overlook the acceptance of those who did transgress. The only parrotlike repetitiveness is "its too severe". Let us at least be honest and know that these people would have whined, complained, and sought to attack the decisions regardless of what the decision was. It is such dishonest attacks that make the more important issues sound hollow coming from their posts, we know they aren't honest in their dealings on any issue regarding the church. Their only goal is its utter destruction. Link to comment
Jaybear Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 It is such dishonest attacks that make the more important issues sound hollow coming from their posts, we know they aren't honest in their dealings on any issue regarding the church. Their only goal is its utter destruction. Once again you prove to be incapable of having a civil disagreement without resorting to personal attacks.Good luck with that. Link to comment
Jeff K. Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Nothing personal towards you Jaybear. I noted the lack of rational argument beyond "I don't like the Church". The trend was somewhat obvious, which I feel is a dishonest argument since one does not speak to the facts involved.I think that people are insincere when they say that the punishment is unreasonable. They would have complained regardless of what BYU did. They produce no rational thought process as to what is severe, they overlook the issue of fairness, acknowledgement that all were aware of the penalties or issues, they even overlook the acceptance of those who did transgress. The only parrotlike repetitiveness is "its too severe". Let us at least be honest and know that these people would have whined, complained, and sought to attack the decisions regardless of what the decision was. Link to comment
Jaybear Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Nothing personal towards you Jaybear. When you are prepared to have a discussion without resorting to personal attacks, let me know. Link to comment
Jeff K. Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 JaybearAre you saying the positions I have outlined are your positions specificallly? Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 What better time when keeping him on the team shows your true morality. Link to comment
krose Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Premarital sex with your girlfriend is a sin of passion. I asked for an example of an athlete being kicked of the team for amounts to a moment of weakness that did not lead to pregnancy. The latter, of course, becomes a PR issue for PR conscience university. That is an excellent point. Those who have been kicked off the various teams for the "sin next to murder" have a pregnancy involved, which makes their actions obvious to everyone.I have heard accounts of others being placed on probation instead of released, or being allowed to quietly clear up the matter with the player's bishop, without the HC office getting involved. We are left to assume that the bottom-line difference is the effect on the institution's image. Link to comment
krose Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 ... 1959-60... This So Cal surfer girl was well aware of the Code before even setting foot on campus...OMG, you're Gidget! Link to comment
Jason Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I think that people are insincere when they say that the punishment is unreasonable. They would have complained regardless of what BYU did.Quoted for truth. It's easy to believe that if no action had been taken against Davies they would be excoriating BYU for having no integrity and not holding him to the honor code. Link to comment
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