Anti-Evolutionism in "The New Era"?

[LDS Guy 1986]

Gotta love conspiracy theorists. The moon landing is a hoax. Evolutionary biology is a conspiracy to destroy religion. LOL.

Wow, you take something and make it into something it isn't!

I never stated evolution is a conspiracy theory this comment was completely separate and you decide to totally lie about it and make statements that have no factual basis.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Evolution changes absolutely nothing about the plan of salvation. Sin exists no matter what the "origin of species" and must be atoned for.

The ancient Hebrews had no idea the earth was round - they thought of the earth as flat, on pillars, and covered by a hard dome called the firmament - sort of like a biodome.

There is no serious doubt whatsoever that evolution in fact occurs. Evolution is a fact. How evolution works is subject to revision.

Nice picture, that picture isn't a verse from the Bible that says the Earth is flat though, if you don't seek to have discussion and just ingnore my questions you can, but then I cannot learn and grow.

So can you find that scripture for me from the bible that says the Earth if flat?

[kolipoki09]

Evolution desires to say we are the descendant of a primordial goo phantom, so yeah it is a huge attack on the fundamental position of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

You've valiantly pointed out purported caricatures of I.D./Creationism, yet you don't seem to have any problem using caricature as a tool to describe something you disagree with here. I didn't know evolution had an agenda. If so, the Church hasn't said much about it (except for Elder Shayne M. Bowen who essentially used this same caricature just an hour ago during a BYU-Idaho Devotional, much to my dismay).

Also as far as your flat/round Earth stuff, even if the Bible did say this (which as far as I know it doesn't) that doesn't fundamentally change the Plan of Salvation, evolution does fundamentally change our plan of salvation.

Does evolution deny that Christ is the Savior and Redeemer of the world? If it does, here are a few people you might want to notify:

http://mormonscholarstestify.org/1206/index-by-specialty

Of all the Church's we are the most pro-scientific Church I know of, we accept that the Bible is not inerrant, so we tend to be more accepting of science knowing that the scriptures are not perfect, they were written by mortal men who made mistakes.

As a whole, Latter-day Saints tend to be fairly conservative when it comes to science.

But that still doesn't mean we will toss overboard the core principals of our faith because some men say so.

We shouldn't dismiss science simply because we don't have the full picture about how mankind came into being either.

Evolution is not nearly as "inerrant" as the proponents try and make it appear to be, the likely hood of life appearing without intelligent design is astronomically tiny.

So with such lacking evidence I don't see why anyone would expect someone to abandon what they believe to follow another theology that has little to no evidence regarding there claims of how life began on this planet.

If you expect me to change my core theology you got to do better than make up an impossible story and tell me it is the truth. You sound more like some of the Church's I was taken too a a child, those "believe because I say so" attitudes is what lead me to the eternal truths of the Restored Gospel, I would not leave because someone told me to (much to my fathers displeasure)

The likelihood of life forming out of base elements of hydrogen and helium (a byproduct of the big bang), then combining to form other elements through a series of cataclysmic events over a period of roughly 13.4 billion years is actually quite likely. The elements necessary to sustain life are all over the universe.

Evolutionary biologists aren't claiming that the explanation of evolution is fool-proof. However, it is the best explanation for the origin of life currently available. The only way we better understand the world (and the universe around us) is to continue making observations and explanations. Evolution as a whole is not the final word (since we can't ever completely see the whole picture), but it is demonstrably evident that large-scale organic evolution has happened and will likely continue to happen.

I'm not asking you to change your theology, but I am encouraging you to reconsider your views on science in relation to the Restored Gospel.

[semlogo]

Wow, you take something and make it into something it isn't!

I never stated evolution is a conspiracy theory this comment was completely separate and you decide to totally lie about it and make statements that have no factual basis.

You said evolutionary science was all about killing religion! And then you linked to a conspiracy theory movie about the same! How is that not a conspiracy theory, according to what you said?

con

[kolipoki09]

There "source" for this statement you mention is some back water blog by some nobody with no expertise. Once again just because it is what most people want the facts to be doesn't make it so.

It is also a blog about how you cannot use theory as a reason to not follow evolution so the author is far from unbiased about the state of a theory.

Added by Edit:

2008 was my last science class, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China, unless the scientific method has changed in the last 500 years give or take.

What on earth are you talking about? What "back water blog" have I cited from someone with no expertise? The definition of a scientific theory is VERY well established in the academic community.

Science changes all the time, based on observations and explanations (i.e. laws and theories). Laws, like theories, are not permanent, but do provide is with a better understanding of the world around us.

[semlogo]

Nice picture, that picture isn't a verse from the Bible that says the Earth is flat though, if you don't seek to have discussion and just ingnore my questions you can, but then I cannot learn and grow.

So can you find that scripture for me from the bible that says the Earth if flat?

Easy enough:

Isaiah 40:

22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Two concepts here - the earth is flat and circular (a circle is flat), and covered by a tent - otherwise known as the firmament, which was supposed to be a quite physical, solid dome set on top of the flat earth.

Job 37:18 (New King James Version)

18 With Him, have you spread out the skies,

Strong as a cast metal mirror?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament

Where do you think this concept came from? I didn't just make it up. It comes from the Bible. That's what the Hebrews believed.

[Walden]

Get used to disappointment.

Maybe I can get an idea about it from all the religionists who have been claiming the last days for, oh, about the last 2000 years.

[Walden]

Look there is a trailer above about an excellent documentary called Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed.

IF you actually were here to discuss instead of troll, you would of watched the 7 mins trailer and seen how the academic and scientific community refuses to consider any data or evidence collected scientifically in support of Intelligent Design from accredited scholars, how these "scientists" openly admit that they will not listen to any arguments for Intelligent Design because they are right about this and everyone else is wrong no matter how much data and evidence they got.

Now I am not a scientist, I am a furniture delivery guy who took 1 year of college classes in 2007-2008, so I am not privy to all the data and evidence these scientist have. What I do know is that it is relevant data collected through the scientific method, published in respectable academic journals and the authors are punished for presenting scientific data to the world.

Science is no less flawed and hypocritic than religion, this is because men are hypocrites by nature, some believe in God some believe in science. Both are equally ignorant and foolish.

Please don't tell me that you are getting your information on intelligent design from the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. That's like getting your facts about the Iraq war from the movie Fahrenheit 9/11.

[zelder]

He's just trolling as usual.

I'm not trolling. The prophet was correct. Nobody has ever set foot on the moon. The moon landing hoax/scam is one of many massive hoaxes/scams. Its really not much different than the global warming scam/hoax, the Gulf of Tonkin scam/hoax or Operation Northwoods etc etc etc.

[Jason]

Maybe I can get an idea about it from all the religionists who have been claiming the last days for, oh, about the last 2000 years.

Well we Mormons have only been claiming it for the last 180 years or so. On a scale of 1000 years = one day, 180 years is around four hours.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Please don't tell me that you are getting your information on intelligent design from the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. That's like getting your facts about the Iraq war from the movie Fahrenheit 9/11.

No I am gettting information about academia giving the boot to professors over ID

[LDS Guy 1986]

Please don't tell me that you are getting your information on intelligent design from the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. That's like getting your facts about the Iraq war from the movie Fahrenheit 9/11.

I have to disagree though about you comapring getting ID facts from Expelled, is the same as getting Iraq War facts from Fahrenheit 9/11.

Expelled is pro ID and Fahrenheit 9/11 is anti Iraq, so it is inconsistent to compare these two.

Also my facts on the Iraq War are rock solid and gained from kicking in doors in Baghdad during 2 of the wildest months of 2006 during my 10 month tour in Iraq with the US Army Reserves in 2005-2006.

[LDS Guy 1986]

duplicate post

[LDS Guy 1986]

Maybe I can get an idea about it from all the religionists who have been claiming the last days for, oh, about the last 2000 years.

Or the secular scholars who thought the earth was flat for almost 5000 years

[44Foxtrot]

I really try to NOT comment on your posts because they are so simple-minded.

Suppose one were to believe that God works through evolution.

There goes that argument.

If one were to believe that God worked through evolution, then one would have no evidence whatsoever for their claims. Such claims are not supported by scriptural evidence and not supported by scientific evidence. They are just someone's unfounded belief based on another's imagination.

[Walden]

I have to disagree though about you comapring getting ID facts from Expelled, is the same as getting Iraq War facts from Fahrenheit 9/11.

Expelled is pro ID and Fahrenheit 9/11 is anti Iraq, so it is inconsistent to compare these two.

Also my facts on the Iraq War are rock solid and gained from kicking in doors in Baghdad during 2 of the wildest months of 2006 during my 10 month tour in Iraq with the US Army Reserves in 2005-2006.

My comparison has nothing to do with the content of the movies, but with their method in presenting "facts".......they start with an angle, collect some information through interviews and document reviews, throw out all the stuff that does not support their specific angle, distort the connections between what they are left with after removing the stuff that they don't agree with (or that doesn't promote their angle) and then wrap it up in a nice, neat package and promote the final product as "truth."

This is the antithesis of the scientific method, and one should not be looking to "shockumentaries" to support their scientific arguments.

Oh yes, and regarding your tour in Iraq, thank you for your service to our country

[blackstrap]

Evolution is scientific because it is falsifiable. And yet evolution is so malleable that it resists falsification.Creatures can change quickly because of outside pressures or they can remain virtually unchanged for millions of years while undergoing the same outside pressures. Evolution is so powerful that it can make the same organ appear in several radically different creatures with vastly different positions on the evolutionary tree of life( or bush or grass ) . It can turn dinosaurs into birds given a few million years to exchange scales for feathers.

Of course not all dinos became birds,just the ones that wanted to,that is ,that evolution wanted to.

In the beginning was a primordial bog,but not just one bog,but at least three bogs.And each one produced many different kinds of simple molecules that in turn produced many different kinds of simple life forms,each one of which went its own merry way producing organisms that would become plants and animals and ultimately man.Some bacteria were happy being bacteria and decided not to change. Same with some worms,fish,amphibians and reptiles.And insects,especially the fruit fly which remained that same except when MAN played around with it.(We will disregard the studies that showed no change in 600 generations )

No, evolution does not kill God.It is God.It is ,however a god that makes a million mistakes in order to get one improvement. Not very efficient.Kind of like the law,it grinds very slowly but also very finely. No matter,time is on its side.

[44Foxtrot]

Also my facts on the Iraq War are rock solid and gained from kicking in doors in Baghdad during 2 of the wildest months of 2006 during my 10 month tour in Iraq with the US Army Reserves in 2005-2006.

LDS Guy 1986,

While I can agree with very little, if anything, of what you write on this board, I would like to thank you for your service to our country. Having served in the USMC during the Viet Nam War, I understand what a life changing experience a unit activation can be.

[sunstoned]

I'm not trolling. The prophet was correct. Nobody has ever set foot on the moon. The moon landing hoax/scam is one of many massive hoaxes/scams. Its really not much different than the global warming scam/hoax, the Gulf of Tonkin scam/hoax or Operation Northwoods etc etc etc.

I believe that the Soviet Union was following our space program very closely. They would also be highly motivated to discredit us if possible. If the Moon landing was a hoax (and they would have the technology to know this), the Soviets have most certainly discovered it and made it public.

[sunstoned]

I believe that the Soviet Union was following our space program very closely. They would also be highly motivated to discredit us if possible. If the Moon landing was a hoax (and they would have the technology to know this), the Soviets would have most certainly discovered it and made it public.

[facie ad faciem]

Que the Twilight Zone music.

BTW. Outside the field of mathamatics theory is the highest explanation of a given event or process. IE It is the Law of Gravity(Gravity exists) AND Theory of Gravity(Why it exists).

http://www.theonion.com/articles/evangelical-scientists-refute-gravity-with-new-int,1778/

I know I'm a little behind on this, but YOU LINKED TO THE ONION!!!

Much respect!

[mfbukowski]

If one were to believe that God worked through evolution, then one would have no evidence whatsoever for their claims. Such claims are not supported by scriptural evidence and not supported by scientific evidence. They are just someone's unfounded belief based on another's imagination.

So beliefs should not be based on imagination? How does one then make a scientific hypothesis or design experiments?

Do you make every single decision in your life based on evidence? How do you decide between a hamburger or a taco?

What about your belief that beliefs should be based on evidence? What is your evidence for that belief?

[mfbukowski]

I believe that the Soviet Union was following our space program very closely. They would also be highly motivated to discredit us if possible. If the Moon landing was a hoax (and they would have the technology to know this), the Soviets have most certainly discovered it and made it public.

Nah, they actually invented the story and orchestrated the whole thing. In fact, it was all filmed in Vladivostok. The did that so that they could say that we had nukes on the moon to force their own leaders into increasing their nuclear arms program.

Gosh, everybody knows that!

[44Foxtrot]

So beliefs should not be based on imagination? How does one then make a scientific hypothesis or design experiments?

Do you make every single decision in your life based on evidence? How do you decide between a hamburger or a taco?

What about your belief that beliefs should be based on evidence? What is your evidence for that belief?

Unfounded beliefs can be dangerous to an individual and to society at large. When beliefs are based on imagination only, with no objective evidence and therefore no connection to reality, and then built upon with more unfounded beliefs, one result turns out to be cults such as the Branch Dividians, Scientology, Heavens Gate, etc. The core beliefs of these groups of people are strongly held in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and the individuals involved often suffer because their beliefs do not allow full participation in society at large.

In some cases these unfounded beliefs result in increased morbidity and mortality among members of the cult or religious organization. Such was the case with Heaven's Gate, Jim Jones People's Temple (both near 100% mortality) and the David Koresh Branch Dividians. Increased risk of death and disease continues today within Christian Science (unfounded belief in healing by prayer only) and certain sub-populations in both the Mormon Church (unfounded and severe religious discrimination against homosexuals) and Catholic Church (poor men and women in Africa from AIDS because of unfounded belief that God does not condone the use of condoms).

[thesometimesaint]

facie ad faciem:

I thought it very apropos to "Intelligent Design".