volgadon Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 volgadon:Not from what I've seen. But really only time will tell.It is from what I've seen. Egyptians feel like they've been under the West's thumb too long. Sharia law is a source of national pride for them. Does Israel now allow for the active proselytizing by the LDS?Israel technically allows it, the church has chosen not to do so for the time being. Legally, the only proselyting forbidden is to minors without parentl consent, or conversions for material gain.
thesometimesaint Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 volgadon:I think they are more tired of living under authoritarian/autocratic rulers. From Nasser to Mubarak. For nearly 60 years Egypt has been ruled by one party. Mubarak ruled by emergency decree for 30 years. Sadat was better in some ways, but his country experienced massive turmoil and extra judicial jailing towards the end of his life. Nasser ruled as an autocrat. I just don't see women and particularly young women as wanting Sharia Law. Will Egypt become a western style democracy? I don't know, but I wouldn't entirely rule out a Egyptian style democracy either. Maybe like Turkey. We will see.It sounds to me more than the LDS simply choosing not to proselytize.http://www.religiousfreedom.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=247&Itemid=56Missionaries are allowed to evangelize in Israel, but their activities are limited. Mormons are specifically prohibited from converting Israelis to their religion by mutual agreement between the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints and the Government.
volgadon Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 volgadon:I just don't see women and particularly young women as wanting Sharia Law. Many do. You are thinking as a westerner.It sounds to me more than the LDS simply choosing not to proselytize.http://www.religiousfreedom.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=247&Itemid=56Missionaries are allowed to evangelize in Israel, but their activities are limited. Mormons are specifically prohibited from converting Israelis to their religion by mutual agreement between the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints and the Government.I've actually looked the laws up, and have also followed some court cases where the ruling was in favour of missionary activities. This flew in the face of the religious parties.
thesometimesaint Posted February 18, 2011 Posted February 18, 2011 volgadon:Good morning. Sorry about not responding earlier. My Mother-in-Law is in the hospital so spent a good part of the night with her. Tough night. Anywho. I probably do think like a westerner. Hazards of being born, raised, and living here for all of my 60 years. But I was referring to comments made by Egyptian women themselves. The Revolution in Egypt was directed largely by one woman talking to other women who talked to their husbands and sons. I do hope, and this is where my western ideals come in, is that the Revolution will take hold, and Egypt will finally join the 21st Century. But I don't have a "Crystal Ball", so just have to WAFO. I can't keep informed on all the Israeli court cases. I have a hard enough time with just keeping up with a few in my own country. But from what I have read I don't expect to see LDS Missionaries bicycling any time soon in Jerusalem. However much I might like to see it.
volgadon Posted February 19, 2011 Posted February 19, 2011 volgadon:Good morning. Sorry about not responding earlier. My Mother-in-Law is in the hospital so spent a good part of the night with her. Tough night.Oh dear, is she doing any better? I probably do think like a westerner. Hazards of being born, raised, and living here for all of my 60 years. But I was referring to comments made by Egyptian women themselves. The Revolution in Egypt was directed largely by one woman talking to other women who talked to their husbands and sons. I do hope, and this is where my western ideals come in, is that the Revolution will take hold, and Egypt will finally join the 21st Century. But I don't have a "Crystal Ball", so just have to WAFO.None of that means however that they are opposed to sharia. I can't keep informed on all the Israeli court cases. I have a hard enough time with just keeping up with a few in my own country. But from what I have read I don't expect to see LDS Missionaries bicycling any time soon in Jerusalem. However much I might like to see it.Naturally, they had better walk or take the bus. =)Seriously though, the situation for proselyting is not as dire as it might seems. The only ones facing serious opposition are the JW's (unfortunately they circumvent the laws a lot), and some of the Messianic Jews.
thesometimesaint Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 volgadon:She is in physical rehab right now. But it doesn't look good. She'll probably spend the rest of her life in a convalescent hospital. I may be that it works out that Sharia Law takes in hold Egypt. Keeping up with the NEWS the people so far don't seemed to be all that inclined for it. IE; Turkey is a modern democracy with a mast majority of its citizen Muslim.
volgadon Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 volgadon:She is in physical rehab right now. But it doesn't look good. She'll probably spend the rest of her life in a convalescent hospital. Horrid. I hope things work out for the best. I may be that it works out that Sharia Law takes in hold Egypt. Keeping up with the NEWS the people so far don't seemed to be all that inclined for it. IE; Turkey is a modern democracy with a mast majority of its citizen Muslim.Turkey isn't really a western-style democracy, but at any rate, it has been moving more and more towards Islamic fundamentalism.
TAO Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Turkey isn't really a western-style democracy, but at any rate, it has been moving more and more towards Islamic fundamentalism.Erm... isn't Turkey the one that's moving in the opposite direction... weren't they trying to join the EU and such?
USU78 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Erm... isn't Turkey the one that's moving in the opposite direction... weren't they trying to join the EU and such?Attaturk's Turkey has definitely made a right turn towards the Mullahs. A shame, really. A friend of mine did a year as an AFS exchange student in the early '70s. "Just like home," was how she described her year in Ankara. Can you imagine that now?
Jeff K. Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Democracy in the Middle East has not been kind to the Coptic Christians and similar minorities.Turkey's present leadership, while more religious seems also to be more authoritarian now. I am not sure how it will play out. And I do not see Europe making any effort to bring Turkey into the fold of the EU. The French will speak against it as will other Eastern Europeans who seem to have a stronger memory of Seljuk incursions into their nations. We may see some strong religious reactions to any close attempts by Turkey, and perhaps a strong counter reaction by Turkish religious leaders.
BCSpace Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Turkey is considered to be in alignment with only a few of the chapters of the acquis. So ostensibly they have a really long way to go. I don't think the EU will last as long as it will take for Turkey to abandon an Islamist or the alternative military form of government before they can join.
Jeff K. Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 As to the EU, it depends if it can weather the present economic crisis or not.
CQUIRK Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Now its getting really nasty in Libya; the rioting is so bad that the anti-government forces have reportedly seized several military basis &, weapons and even some divisions of the Army have defected over to the protesters.Basically, Libya is going to be facing a civil-war very soon.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110221/ap_on_re_af/af_libya_protests;_ylt=AkA8JVjODe4haQxDAxLXa9Ss0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNoYTlrMjI3BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwMjIxL2FmX2xpYnlhX3Byb3Rlc3RzBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDMQRwb3MDMgRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDZ2FkaGFmaXNzb253Yep, it sure is getting more lovely in the Middle East every day
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Any thoughts on what happened in Egypt?Are Jorden and Saudi Arabia next?How long till Iran gets the bomb?What happens to Israel (and could the demise of Israel be part of the NWO agenda?)Also, what (if any) role do Mormons see the EU playing in end time events?It is going on in 3 countries now
thesometimesaint Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 From Iran to Tunisia that whole area is starting to boil with political unrest. The next few months are going to be interesting.
USU78 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Now its getting really nasty in Libya; the rioting is so bad that the anti-government forces have reportedly seized several military basis &, weapons and even some divisions of the Army have defected over to the protesters.Basically, Libya is going to be facing a civil-war very soon.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110221/ap_on_re_af/af_libya_protests;_ylt=AkA8JVjODe4haQxDAxLXa9Ss0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNoYTlrMjI3BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwMjIxL2FmX2xpYnlhX3Byb3Rlc3RzBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDMQRwb3MDMgRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDZ2FkaGFmaXNzb253Yep, it sure is getting more lovely in the Middle East every day The Brits (including BP) have pulled their people out of Tripoli.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 The Brits (including BP) have pulled their people out of Tripoli.Sadly this will result in extremist taking control of the Middle East, and
CQUIRK Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 The times sure are a changin'. More so for the Middle East.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 The times sure are a changin'. More so for the Middle East.Thanks to the Scriptures we know how it will end
thesometimesaint Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 Pa Pa:True enough, but there is only one person who knows when that is going to be, and we ain't Him.
LDS Guy 1986 Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 You obviously haven't heard of Novocherkassk 1962. Workers stood up to tanks. The workers lost.Was this an entire nation or just a small group of workers?Added in edit:Also this took place 16 years before I was born and I have never heard about it in any history class so no I haven't heard of this event. It still doesn't take away from the fact that if an entire nation rise up there is no amount of tanks and bullets that a nation can stockpile that will stop the people. It worked in China, it worked in Tunisia, it worked in Egypt, it's working in Libya, and it going to work in the rest of the Middle East in my opinion.
volgadon Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Was this an entire nation or just a small group of workers?The rioting in Egypt wasn't the entire nation either. What happened in Novocherkassk in 1962 did not involve the entire Russian nation obviously, but it did involve a substantial proportion of a moderate sized city.Added in edit:Also this took place 16 years before I was born and I have never heard about it in any history class so no I haven't heard of this event. It still doesn't take away from the fact that if an entire nation rise up there is no amount of tanks and bullets that a nation can stockpile that will stop the people. It worked in China, it worked in Tunisia, it worked in Egypt, it's working in Libya, and it going to work in the rest of the Middle East in my opinion.Once again, not the entire nation was involved in any of these events. Here is something else to consider, Hama 1982.
volgadon Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 And what worked in Egypt was the lack of US support for Mubarak, leading to the army's decision to take power for itself.
USU78 Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 And what worked in Egypt was the lack of US support for Mubarak, leading to the army's decision to take power for itself.A shameful thing to do to an ally and friend. Rates right up there with Jimmy throwing the Shah under the bus. Let's hope the Hashemites keep hold of their fief.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 Pa Pa:True enough, but there is only one person who knows when that is going to be, and we ain't Him. I am not picking a day...but in Matthew 24, Christ himself told us how we would know the time in near.
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