TAO Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Obi, ya' gotta be more patient with them than that.
kolipoki09 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 The last time C*ncerned C*ristians tried this, the Anti-Defamation League went after them.http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ChJew_31/5013_31.htmWhich begs the question, do Mormons need their own Anti-Defamation League? http://www.mormontimes.com/article/1559/Do-Mormons-need-an-Anti-Defamation-LeagueMy "Bett" is that this whole anti-blitz won't amount to anything more productive than what this particular organization has done in the past. But what do I know? According to the office manager of said organization, I'm a deceiver and cannot be trusted, all because I believe Joseph Smith died as a martyr, and not as a gun-slinging, womanizing, hell-raising bard.
Vance Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I suspect the whole thing was a fund raising ploy.
CQUIRK Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Though its really stupid because if they wanted to have a better impact, they could've targeted Phoenix instead of Gilbert, where they're trying to get the Ok to build the other temple, but they're already mailing those DVD's to an area that's already going to have a temple, irregardless.-Another idiotic move by antis, and another black mark on their mental incompetency.
SeattleGhostWriter Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 After much contemplation and searching, I have come to the conclusion of two possibilities: 1) Greg Gifford is actually an Ex-Mormon who is portraying a Mormon on the new DVD production. I have found a possible match to who this person is, but the information does not provide whether or not he is LDS or mention he subscribes to any particular faith. One is a myspace profile and a Facebook page with the same pictures. There are no recent pictures of him on either social networking sites, but there seems to be some similarities between the Greg Gifford on the trailer of the DVD and the myspace and Facebook pictures. According to what I have been able to uncover is that he graduated from West Valley High School in Spokane, and is now residing in Florida. 2) In the Bible vs. Book of Mormon, there is a person named "Clifford Gregory". Unable to find much information or a photo of who Clifford Gregory is. However, it is interesting that the last name is Gregory (proper name for Greg) and the first name is Clifford. How easy would it be to transpose the names and drop the CL to add a G, making the name Greg Gifford. My best hypothesis is that it is actually Greg Gifford from Spokane, Washington and that he most likely was a member of the Church at one time and then became an Ex-Mormon. Carefully watching the trailer, he stumbles over his words, making it difficult to accept the fact that he is a Mormon. The way he talks, is not common among even lay members of the LDS Faith.The other question that I have is that if they (Sourceflix and Living Hope Ministries) utilizes Scholars and Academics to substantiate the Bible, why do they not do the same thing and interview leading Mormon Scholars?
rongo Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Bingo, GhostWriter! Giffords is very suspicious. He simply lays down and dies too easily and too quickly with Kramer's prodding. Even a naive, inexperienced Mormon who was confronted for the first time with things he'd never heard before and couldn't adequately answer would have attempted an answer of some sort (if only "just" to "bear testimony"), but notice just how Giffords plays the part of Elder Tanner in the classic Chick tract "The Visitors"-------"Elder Tanner, wouldn't you like to cut through all this unscriptural nonsense and get to know the real Jesus of the Bible?""Uh . . . yes.""No you don't --- c'mon, we're leaving.""How could you be so stupid, Elder?""I'm confused. I think she was right."http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0061/0061_01.asp--------Kramer has also been shifty about whether Giffords really was "open" or already "in the tank" when they filmed it. I think it's obvious that he was not a typical Mormon picked at random. Such a Mormon, no matter how naive, would have put up much more of a "fight." Think about it --- there's no way Kramer would have chanced using a truly random Mormon for this --- way too unpredictable how that's going to turn out and "play" on film.Kramer picked "homers" as far as Bible scholars, too. I think everybody knows that heavyweight Bible scholars, while certainly not "homers" for the Mormons, would not have been suitable for this DVD and its objectives. Did anyone notice how several of them "protested too much" about their objectivity:Dr. Gabriel Barkay: "Listen, I am very objective. First of all, I am an archaeologist and I am not a Christian." Dr. Shimon Gibson also went way over board in insisting that he was a non-believer, before insisting that the Tomb of the Sepulcher is Jesus' tomb. Would truly objective and non-believing archaeologists feel the need to preface remarks and observations with their bona fides as non-believers?What do people think about Kramer's "allegorization" of the death to the false prophet part of the Deuteronomy 18 "test" as applied to Joseph Smith? "Therefore, it is the people
rongo Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 The DVD, obviously and as a surprise to no one, focused heavily on the "Bible Test of a Prophet
urroner Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Then, go through the various Bible passages where stringent application of BToaP presents the same problems, and ask the evangelical critic to explain why BToaP doesn't apply here, but always must with Mormon prophecy. Evangelical critics are completely unable to handle this. Was Job a "true" prophet of God when God told him to go give an unconditional prediction of the downfall of Ninevah and it never happened? The evangelicals I have talked with about this said that God didn't destroy Ninevah because the people changed and so it was conditional, but I can't find those words anyway in the book of Job. I can't find anything like "God will destroy Ninevah unless..." All I can find is an unconditional prophecy that God would plainly and simply destroy Ninevah.
bluebell Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Was Job a "true" prophet of God when God told him to go give an unconditional prediction of the downfall of Ninevah and it never happened? The evangelicals I have talked with about this said that God didn't destroy Ninevah because the people changed and so it was conditional, but I can't find those words anyway in the book of Job. I can't find anything like "God will destroy Ninevah unless..." All I can find is an unconditional prophecy that God would plainly and simply destroy Ninevah.Pretty sure you mean Jonah.
thesometimesaint Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 The same criteria can successfully used against Jesus the Christ.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Isn't it a flat out lie if they are claiming that they have the original writings from the Apostles and prophets?Lying for the Lord.
SeattleGhostWriter Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Lying for the Lord. More like lying for the Profit in their coffers
Bernard Gui Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Some EV churches distributed these DVDs in a town near me. I was the high councilman who visited theirward. The DVDs were given out on Saturday, and on Sunday, there were dozens of DVDs on the churchgrounds, some with notes telling us not to put our propaganda on their doorsteps again!Bernard
Libs Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Some EV churches distributed these DVDs in a town near me. I was the high councilman who visited theirward. The DVDs were given out on Saturday, and on Sunday, there were dozens of DVDs on the churchgrounds, some with notes telling us not to put our propaganda on their doorsteps again!BernardLOL! Now, that's funny!
SeattleGhostWriter Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Some EV churches distributed these DVDs in a town near me. I was the high councilman who visited theirward. The DVDs were given out on Saturday, and on Sunday, there were dozens of DVDs on the churchgrounds, some with notes telling us not to put our propaganda on their doorsteps again!BernardShould box them up and send them back to Concerned Christians with the original Notes and see what Living Hope Ministries, Sourceflix, and Concerned Christians would actually say to that. Put in the letter stating "Evangelical Christians placed these on the door steps of our LDS Ward with love notes saying they do not want this kind of propaganda, so please, do not litter our community with these DVD's." I would love to see the face on those people when they open the box and see the notes and dvd's.
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