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From Whence Cometh the Antichrist?

Cold Steel

By Cold Steel
in Miscellaneous

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Cold Steel Mentor

Cold Steel

Posted
Posted

Ezekiel calls him "Gog" and John warns that his army will cover the land as sand covers the seashore. He will appear in the last days and amass worldwide power. Then he'll move against Israel with what the scriptures declare will be "all nations."

But how will Gog (popularly called the "Antichrist") do this when the United States has pledged to support Israel with its vast nuclear arsenal? There are three possibilities: 1) the U.S. will be one of the nations controlled by the Antichrist; 2) the U.S. may no longer be in the position of defending Israel due to a change in the balance of power; or 3) the U.S. will no longer be in existence, and Zion will be the predominant power in North America.

Some have pointed out that Ezra T. Benson and others have repeatedly said that this country would endure, but prophecy seems to indicate that it may endure only in the hearts of the saints and others who have gathered to Zion.

Zechariah said, "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle" in that day. Is this just a figure of speech or is it to be taken literally? Some protestant websites have gone so far as to show Russian, Chinese and U.S. flags in flanking positions against Jerusalem, and I was surprised to see that some have identified Elijah and Moses as the two prophets who would stand against Jerusalem's enemies. Others have indicated that the two witnesses would be the Israel and the church (God's ancient and modern witnesses). Nephi, in quoting Isaiah, states: "Thy two sons are come unto thee, who shall be sorry for thee -- thy desolation and destruction, and the famine and the sword -- and by whom shall I comfort thee? Thy sons have fainted, save these two; they lie at the head of all the streets." (2 Nephi 8:19) Nephi makes the connection of the two "sons" (missing in the Isaiah text, chapter 51:18-21), but Nephi indicates that the two prophets will be Jews, and Bruce R. McConkie indicates they will be latter-day apostles. That Nephi would say "these two sons are come unto thee" indicates to me that they will not be residents of Jerusalem, but will come from somewhere else to fulfill their missions. "Thy sons have fainted," he tells Jerusalem, "save these two" shows that they'll have power to repel the enemy.

If the United States no longer is a world power, then the two prophets will have either had to be in the city for a long period of time or have found some means of transportation. The question is, where do you think the Beast will come from and, if you're not LDS, who do you think the two witnesses will be?

The world will have to change radically for these prophecies to be fulfilled. But then, we still have the sixth seal earthquake (which John says will have a profound effect on the nations) and that followed by the half hour of silence -- which works out to be a little over twenty years prophetically. According to prophecy, the U.S. will become the greatest of all nations, but it most likely will not remain so. Joseph Smith, Heber C. Kimball, the Pratts and other early prophets all state that our cities would be left desolate and great civil wars would take place. Out of this turmoil will come the Beast, or Antichrist. But where will he come from? And when will he appear?

Thoughts?

.

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Palerider Experienced

Palerider

Posted
Posted

Ezekiel calls him "Gog" and John warns that his army will cover the land as sand covers the seashore. He will appear in the last days and amass worldwide power. Then he'll move against Israel with what the scriptures declare will be "all nations."

But how will Gog (popularly called the "Antichrist") do this when the United States has pledged to support Israel with its vast nuclear arsenal? There are three possibilities: 1) the U.S. will be one of the nations controlled by the Antichrist; 2) the U.S. may no longer be in the position of defending Israel due to a change in the balance of power; or 3) the U.S. will no longer be in existence, and Zion will be the predominant power in North America.

Some have pointed out that Ezra T. Benson and others have repeatedly said that this country would endure, but prophecy seems to indicate that it may endure only in the hearts of the saints and others who have gathered to Zion.

Zechariah said, "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle" in that day. Is this just a figure of speech or is it to be taken literally? Some protestant websites have gone so far as to show Russian, Chinese and U.S. flags in flanking positions against Jerusalem, and I was surprised to see that some have identified Elijah and Moses as the two prophets who would stand against Jerusalem's enemies. Others have indicated that the two witnesses would be the Israel and the church (God's ancient and modern witnesses). Nephi, in quoting Isaiah, states: "Thy two sons are come unto thee, who shall be sorry for thee -- thy desolation and destruction, and the famine and the sword -- and by whom shall I comfort thee? Thy sons have fainted, save these two; they lie at the head of all the streets." (2 Nephi 8:19) Nephi makes the connection of the two "sons" (missing in the Isaiah text, chapter 51:18-21), but Nephi indicates that the two prophets will be Jews, and Bruce R. McConkie indicates they will be latter-day apostles. That Nephi would say "these two sons are come unto thee" indicates to me that they will not be residents of Jerusalem, but will come from somewhere else to fulfill their missions. "Thy sons have fainted," he tells Jerusalem, "save these two" shows that they'll have power to repel the enemy.

If the United States no longer is a world power, then the two prophets will have either had to be in the city for a long period of time or have found some means of transportation. The question is, where do you think the Beast will come from and, if you're not LDS, who do you think the two witnesses will be?

The world will have to change radically for these prophecies to be fulfilled. But then, we still have the sixth seal earthquake (which John says will have a profound effect on the nations) and that followed by the half hour of silence -- which works out to be a little over twenty years prophetically. According to prophecy, the U.S. will become the greatest of all nations, but it most likely will not remain so. Joseph Smith, Heber C. Kimball, the Pratts and other early prophets all state that our cities would be left desolate and great civil wars would take place. Out of this turmoil will come the Beast, or Antichrist. But where will he come from? And when will he appear?

Thoughts?

.

Guess I'll have to do a little research for proof text but I never equated Gog directly with the anti-christ. Figured Gog and Magog were just taking advantage of a situation created by the anti-christ.....who could actually be a political leader anywhere else in the world.....Like the U.N.....after he finishes his single term in Washington.

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BookofMormonLuvr Mentor

BookofMormonLuvr

Posted
Posted

Wouldn't that be difficult seeing those two prophets are to testify in Jerusalem?

Patience... that is why I am trying to find the specific article that speaks of it, so it can give their interpretation. It has been years since I studied it.

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ELF1024 Community Regular

ELF1024

Posted
Posted

I personally am pretty sure that the Anti-Christ will be from the Middle-East. At least one dictator in the Middle-East area has promised to wipe out Israel, and has been talking about a World without Zionism.

As far as I'm concerned, the Anti-Christ died June 8, 632 at 63 years of age.

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Bill Hamblin Mentor

Bill Hamblin

Posted
Posted

I personally am pretty sure that the Anti-Christ will be from the Middle-East. At least one dictator in the Middle-East area has promised to wipe out Israel, and has been talking about a World without Zionism.

As far as I'm concerned, the Anti-Christ died June 8, 632 at 63 years of age.

Funny how that fellow is viewed by the Church as an inspired man.

If you understand anti-Christ as mirror-image/false messiah, then he will be Jewish.

If you understand it as one who is opposed to the Messiah, then he could be anything.

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jadams_4242 Contributor

jadams_4242

Posted
Posted

Ezekiel calls him "Gog" and John warns that his army will cover the land as sand covers the seashore. He will appear in the last days and amass worldwide power. Then he'll move against Israel with what the scriptures declare will be "all nations."

But how will Gog (popularly called the "Antichrist") do this when the United States has pledged to support Israel with its vast nuclear arsenal? There are three possibilities: 1) the U.S. will be one of the nations controlled by the Antichrist; 2) the U.S. may no longer be in the position of defending Israel due to a change in the balance of power; or 3) the U.S. will no longer be in existence, and Zion will be the predominant power in North America.

Some have pointed out that Ezra T. Benson and others have repeatedly said that this country would endure, but prophecy seems to indicate that it may endure only in the hearts of the saints and others who have gathered to Zion.

Zechariah said, "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle" in that day. Is this just a figure of speech or is it to be taken literally? Some protestant websites have gone so far as to show Russian, Chinese and U.S. flags in flanking positions against Jerusalem, and I was surprised to see that some have identified Elijah and Moses as the two prophets who would stand against Jerusalem's enemies. Others have indicated that the two witnesses would be the Israel and the church (God's ancient and modern witnesses). Nephi, in quoting Isaiah, states: "Thy two sons are come unto thee, who shall be sorry for thee -- thy desolation and destruction, and the famine and the sword -- and by whom shall I comfort thee? Thy sons have fainted, save these two; they lie at the head of all the streets." (2 Nephi 8:19) Nephi makes the connection of the two "sons" (missing in the Isaiah text, chapter 51:18-21), but Nephi indicates that the two prophets will be Jews, and Bruce R. McConkie indicates they will be latter-day apostles. That Nephi would say "these two sons are come unto thee" indicates to me that they will not be residents of Jerusalem, but will come from somewhere else to fulfill their missions. "Thy sons have fainted," he tells Jerusalem, "save these two" shows that they'll have power to repel the enemy.

If the United States no longer is a world power, then the two prophets will have either had to be in the city for a long period of time or have found some means of transportation. The question is, where do you think the Beast will come from and, if you're not LDS, who do you think the two witnesses will be?

The world will have to change radically for these prophecies to be fulfilled. But then, we still have the sixth seal earthquake (which John says will have a profound effect on the nations) and that followed by the half hour of silence -- which works out to be a little over twenty years prophetically. According to prophecy, the U.S. will become the greatest of all nations, but it most likely will not remain so. Joseph Smith, Heber C. Kimball, the Pratts and other early prophets all state that our cities would be left desolate and great civil wars would take place. Out of this turmoil will come the Beast, or Antichrist. But where will he come from? And when will he appear?

Thoughts?

.

have we ever considered the beast or antiChrist to maybe be several of them rather than just one.. I;E a movement, a coalition, e;t;c... :P

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Nathair/|\ Mentor

Nathair/|\

Posted
Posted

have we ever considered the beast or antiChrist to maybe be several of them rather than just one.. I;E a movement, a coalition, e;t;c... :P

I've been thinking that it might be the principle of totalitarianism. In the late eighties, it seemed like it was defeated (I'm just old enough to remember when the Berlin wall fell.) Now it seems like it is making a resurgence.

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Bill Hamblin Mentor

Bill Hamblin

Posted
Posted

Ive read the Bible many times. I still havent seen anything that convinces me that there is an Anti-Christ that will rise in the last days. Seems up to interpretation.

The idea of the Anti-Christ is a conflation of several different passages that almost certainly shouldn't be conflated.

In the Bible, the word Anti-Christ/s appears only 4 times, all in the letters of John:

1 John 2:18
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SeattleGhostWriter Contributor

SeattleGhostWriter

Posted
Posted

Historically, the Anti-Christ that the Apostle Paul referred to, and that is recorded in the New Testament (Mark of the Beast) was none other than Emperor Caesar Nero. Matthew 23-25 became fulfilled in the Last Days of the Jewish Epoch. The current Age Christ referred to was the Age of the entire Jewish history.

There is substantial evidence to corroborate this. Josephus, Tacitus, and many Christians down through the ages (including early Church Fathers like Tertullian).

Some points that are reflective here:

Who was the Historical Anti-Christ? Nero because his name in Hebrew and Greek is 666 and 616. Nero is historically referred to as the Beast. Revelation (which the dating is heavily debated scholarly) is reported to have been written on the eve of the Destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, Roman Captain who came to conquer the city of Jerusalem. The historical event that culminated in the utter destruction (and thereby fulfilling the prophecy of Christ that no stone of Herod's temple would be left standing) of the Temple is in the context of the Roman-Jewish War that lasted from 66 AD to 73 AD (the last Jewish stronghold to have been conquered was none other famed Qurmran and the Essene community that become the discovery site for the Dead Sea Scrolls).

Who were the two witnesses? James Stuart Russell argues that St. James and St. Peter were the two witnesses preaching in Jerusalem and fulfilled the prophecy of the two witnesses that would be martyred.

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Avatar4321 Grand Master

Avatar4321

Posted
Posted

Who were the two witnesses? James Stuart Russell argues that St. James and St. Peter were the two witnesses preaching in Jerusalem and fulfilled the prophecy of the two witnesses that would be martyred.

Interesting interpretation, but clearly false by reading the passage in Revelation.

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