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Shawn McCraney on Mormon Stories


neworder

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I thought this video interview may be of interest to some of you since Shawn McCraney's name comes up every now and then here on the boards.

http://mormonstories.org/?p=857

Thanks for the link, neworder.

I never knew McCraney was a trichotimist inclusivist, but he makes those points very clearly in his presentation here. Weird. I was with him about eschewing the standard "anti-Mormon" responses to his ministry until he ponied up to his own inclusivism. That doesn't make the countercult rejection of him legitimate in and of itself, but, goodness, I'm not at all an inclusivist. And he clearly is. Eye-opening.

cks

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For Blair Hodges's extended evaluation of McCraney's book I Was a Born-Again Mormon: Moving Toward Christian Authenticity, see

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=21&num=2&id=774.

I hate these confessional "I now know the answers" kinds of things.

I don't even like reading reviews of 'em.

Could I please have the last 15 minutes back?

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Never heard of him. Is this something I want to spend my time viewing or is it a waste?

At the very least, I believe you'll find it interesting. (Of course, that might be code for infuriating.) It was quite interesting to me, and probably for some of the same reasons you might find it to be as well (from different perspectives, of course).

McCraney is a Calvary Chapel guy, if that means anything. I'm not sure how much should be laid at their door. I like the guy, frankly. (But, assuming USU78 didn't phonetically misspell :P, I have to register the fact that I find the man anything but "priggish.") That said, I never imagined how utterly divergent our belief systems were until I watched Dehlin's interview with him.

cks

EDIT: "much"

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At the very least, I believe you'll find it interesting. (Of course, that might be code for infuriating.) It was quite interesting to me, and probably for some of the same reasons you might find it to be as well (from different perspectives, of course).

McCraney is a Calvary Chapel guy, if that means anything. I'm not sure how much should be laid at their door. I like the guy, frankly. (But, assuming USU78 didn't phonetically misspell :P, I have to register the fact that I find the man anything but "priggish.") That said, I never imagined how utterly divergent our belief systems were until I watched Dehlin's interview with him.

cks

EDIT: "much"

You haven't heard his "Shame on you Mormons" imitation of the Church Lady bits he does from time to time?

Reminds me of Reagan's Presbyterian Minister.

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Never heard of him. Is this something I want to spend my time viewing or is it a waste?

Not been impressed by his criticisms myself, doubt if he will ever be more than a blip on the critic map. If you are looking for someone who makes you think with their criticisms, I suspect watching it wouldn't be worth your time. Those who might run into his radio show from time to time might find it worth it.

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I find it interesting to watch how those who didn't know the power of the Atonement of Christ as members find Christ in the low point of their life and then immediately presume it must be external from the LDS Faith. Equally interesting is watching Shawn's blending of LDS gospel principles with that of main stream Christian when it comes to being born again. The way he talked about his wife's "born again" experience was very LDS.

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I thought it was disappointing that Shawn attempted to paint my review as an attack piece. I expected such, but still, John Dehlin missed an opportunity there. And I thought Shawn's persona was interesting in the interview compared to his television show persona.

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I thought it was disappointing that Shawn attempted to paint my review as an attack piece. I expected such, but still, John Dehlin missed an opportunity there. And I thought Shawn's persona was interesting in the interview compared to his television show persona.

Blair,

I think it's disappointing that you don't publicly acknowledge what I DID do to accommodate your concerns....especially after all the effort it took to re-compress all the video and audio to try to make it right. I didn't have to do that, Blair...but I listened to you, and cared about your position...and took action. No class at all there, pal.

Also, it's disappointing to me that you insist on making this interview all about you. Your review was like 1 minute of this total almost 3 hour interview (and not even a direct point...it was totally tangential)...and yet that seems to be all you see.

But I'm not surprised. I rarely have positive experiences w/ apologists...but I'll keep trying.

Someday, I'm hoping and praying that you all will learn to NOT become your own worst enemies.

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Thanks for the link, neworder.

I never knew McCraney was a trichotimist inclusivist, but he makes those points very clearly in his presentation here. Weird. I was with him about eschewing the standard "anti-Mormon" responses to his ministry until he ponied up to his own inclusivism. That doesn't make the countercult rejection of him legitimate in and of itself, but, goodness, I'm not at all an inclusivist. And he clearly is. Eye-opening.

cks

Can we try that once without jargon for us dummies in the peanut gallery?

I think the bottom line is that the guy never had a testimony. How's that for basic?

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Hi mfb--

You asked:

Can we try that once without jargon for us dummies in the peanut gallery?

Trichotomism is the (biblically possible) belief that the human is made up of three "parts": body, soul, and spirit. Irenaeus is an early example. It's not my position, but I don't have a problem with it. One just don't come across such folks too much, so I found it interesting.

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Blair,

I think it's disappointing that you don't publicly acknowledge what I DID do to accommodate your concerns....especially after all the effort it took to re-compress all the video and audio to try to make it right. I didn't have to do that, Blair...but I listened to you, and cared about your position...and took action. No class at all there, pal.

Also, it's disappointing to me that you insist on making this interview all about you. Your review was like 1 minute of this total almost 3 hour interview (and not even a direct point...it was totally tangential)...and yet that seems to be all you see.

But I'm not surprised. I rarely have positive experiences w/ apologists...but I'll keep trying.

Someday, I'm hoping and praying that you all will learn to NOT become your own worst enemies.

John, I didn't say anything here that I didn't tell you in personal emails. How is my opinion that you missed an opportunity in the interview to engage Shawn regarding the review offensive? I recognize the extra work you put in to correct the video, but that time could have been saved if you came more prepared from the outset. If you'd like, feel free to post the entire unedited segment. The only real difference is that you cut out the part where you ask if the review was written by "Blair Hodges" and where you were under the impression I dug up dirt on Shawn's past, or rather that "FARMS" did. As I told you before, I think your interview suffered largely because it seems you didn't do much research beforehand. I'm not trying to make things all about me by any stretch of the imagination, though. When you make snide comments about "apologists" you seem to perpetrate the sort of attack you accuse "apologists" of perpetrating. Your use of "apologist" reminds me of careless use of "anti-Mormon," which can be used to stereotype rather than delineate. Further, you provided a forum for Shawn to attack me, however brief it was. That's ironic given that you accuse FARMS of attacking; motes and beams, etc. Doesn't it strike you as odd that Shawn wanted to bring that up in the way he did?

I'm also confused about why you want to air this dirty laundry on a public forum. I didn't make a big deal about your re-editing the segment for your benefit, not mine. I thought you goofed in the interview and didn't want to make a big deal about it. Instead, I simply posted a corrective note responding to Shawn on my blog. My not mentioning it wasn't a slight towards you. My earlier comments in this thread mirror exactly what I've already told you in our prior exchanges.

BTW, I'm a person, not a "you all." I'm confused about who "you all" is supposed to be.

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John, I didn't say anything here that I didn't tell you in personal emails. How is my opinion that you missed an opportunity in the interview to engage Shawn regarding the review offensive? I recognize the extra work you put in to correct the video, but that time could have been saved if you came more prepared from the outset. If you'd like, feel free to post the entire unedited segment. The only real difference is that you cut out the part where you ask if the review was written by "Blair Hodges" and where you were under the impression I dug up dirt on Shawn's past, or rather that "FARMS" did. As I told you before, I think your interview suffered largely because it seems you didn't do much research beforehand. I'm not trying to make things all about me by any stretch of the imagination, though. When you make snide comments about "apologists" you seem to perpetrate the sort of attack you accuse "apologists" of perpetrating. Your use of "apologist" reminds me of careless use of "anti-Mormon," which can be used to stereotype rather than delineate. Further, you provided a forum for Shawn to attack me, however brief it was. That's ironic given that you accuse FARMS of attacking; motes and beams, etc. Doesn't it strike you as odd that Shawn wanted to bring that up in the way he did?

I'm also confused about why you want to air this dirty laundry on a public forum. I didn't make a big deal about your re-editing the segment for your benefit, not mine. I thought you goofed in the interview and didn't want to make a big deal about it. Instead, I simply posted a corrective note responding to Shawn on my blog. My not mentioning it wasn't a slight towards you. My earlier comments in this thread mirror exactly what I've already told you in our prior exchanges.

BTW, I'm a person, not a "you all." I'm confused about who "you all" is supposed to be.

Blair,

As I told you before -- I didn't read your review for 2 reasons:

1) I was limited on time, and

2) In general, I don't find FAIR or FARMS reviews to be fair or credible, so with limited time, I chose to prepare in other ways with my time...which I did.

For the record, I'm proud of the interview -- just as you're clearly proud of your review. Here's what's funny to me. I don't recall asking you to watch my interview. I don't feel like it is yours, or anyone else's obligation to watch my stuff. You, on the other hand, seem to feel like your review deserves my (and all of our) attention: as if we're obgligated or something. As if a quality interview w/ Shawn McCraney simply can't exist without first consulting Blair Hodges and/or FARMS.

This is funny for many reasons...but mostly because I believe that attention is earned through good work, and through credibility. And to date -- neither you, nor FAIR/FARMS have instilled within me the desire to read your reviews: quite the opposite. I hope that doesn't offend folks here. I certainly don't expect any of you to tune in to my podcast, if that's any consolation.

The world doesn't owe your review a read, Blair....as hard as that might be to realize. You earn readers, Blair. And today, you certainly didn't earn me as one.

I didn't start this thread. But you should really look inside yourself to figure out why you feel like the world owes your article a read on face value.

Take care, Blair. Good luck w/ your approach. No need to reply. I won't respond again here to you.

John Dehlin

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And to date -- neither you, nor FAIR/FARMS have instilled within me the desire to read your reviews: quite the opposite. I hope that doesn't offend folks here. I certainly don't expect any of you to tune in to my podcast, if that's any consolation.

This was the first Mormon Story I watched and it will be the last.

My two cents.

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Blair,

As I told you before -- I didn't read your review for 2 reasons:

1) I was limited on time, and

Not having enough time is understandable, but not an excuse for not being prepared for an interview. Maybe you were more prepared than you seemed, though. What preparation did you make for the interview?

2) In general, I don't find FAIR or FARMS reviews to be fair or credible, so with limited time, I chose to prepare in other ways with my time...which I did.

But you appeared to not be even familiar with McCraney's own book, which incidentally is available for free.

For the record, I'm proud of the interview -- just as you're clearly proud of your review. Here's what's funny to me. I don't recall asking you to watch my interview. I don't feel like it is yours, or anyone else's obligation to watch my stuff. You, on the other hand, seem to feel like your review deserves my (and all of our) attention: as if we're obgligated or something. As if a quality interview w/ Shawn McCraney simply can't exist without first consulting Blair Hodges and/or FARMS.

Actually, Shawn brought it up (as you know).

This is funny for many reasons...but mostly because I believe that attention is earned through good work, and through credibility. And to date -- neither you, nor FAIR/FARMS have instilled within me the desire to read your reviews: quite the opposite. I hope that doesn't offend folks here. I certainly don't expect any of you to tune in to my podcast, if that's any consolation.

You told me you have read my review, are you saying you haven't read it?

The world doesn't owe your review a read, Blair....as hard as that might be to realize. You earn readers, Blair. And today, you certainly didn't earn me as one.

Again, you said you read it, was that not true?

I didn't start this thread. But you should really look inside yourself to figure out why you feel like the world owes your article a read on face value.

You should really look inside yourself to figure out why you feel like it's ok to bash FARMS when your complaint is that FARMS bashes others.

Take care, Blair. Good luck w/ your approach. No need to reply. I won't respond again here to you.

John Dehlin

But even this response wasn't an actual response to anything I've said here. You want people to believe you are all about dialog and letting people tell their stories. What about my story? I'm interested in talking to you reasonably about things. Here are my key points which you chose not to acknowledge, I hope you'll change your mind and actually engage me in open discussion:

How is my opinion that you missed an opportunity in the interview to engage Shawn regarding the review offensive?

When you make snide comments about "apologists" you seem to perpetrate the sort of attack you accuse "apologists" of perpetrating.

Your use of "apologist" reminds me of careless use of "anti-Mormon," which can be used to stereotype rather than delineate.

Further, you provided a forum for Shawn to attack me, however brief it was. That's ironic given that you accuse FARMS of attacking; motes and beams, etc. Doesn't it strike you as odd that Shawn wanted to bring that up in the way he did?

I'm also confused about why you want to air this dirty laundry on a public forum. I didn't make a big deal about your re-editing the segment for your benefit, not mine. I thought you goofed in the interview and didn't want to make a big deal about it. Instead, I simply posted a corrective note responding to Shawn on my blog. My not mentioning it wasn't a slight towards you. My earlier comments in this thread mirror exactly what I've already told you in our prior exchanges.

Last, I'm confused about who "you all" is supposed to be.

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Dehlin has issues, clearly. Just a tad passive aggressive, no?

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