"Pitched his tent toward ..."

[William Schryver]

Preparing this morning to teach Lesson 8, I found myself pondering the significance of the phrase, used in Genesis 13, that Lot, after choosing the plain of Jordan for his inheritance, "pitched his tent toward Sodom."

I'm wondering if any of our resident OT Hebrew students/scholars can speak to the significance of the phrase within the context of Biblical Hebrew?

Obviously, there are immediate impressions that come to one when considering the act of "pitching one's tent toward" something. It seems to connote the act of establishing affinity or community with the thing towards which the tent is pitched.

In any case, I find the entire concept a fascinating one. It makes me wonder if we are conscious ourselves of exactly what constitutes the thing towards which we "pitch our tent." If we had to pick a city in the world that we felt the most affinity towards, which one would it be, and why? And what would that say about us?

[Ron Beron]

Preparing this morning to teach Lesson 8, I found myself pondering the significance of the phrase, used in Genesis 13, that Lot, after choosing the plain of Jordan for his inheritance, "pitched his tent toward Sodom."

I'm wondering if any of our resident OT Hebrew students/scholars can speak to the significance of the phrase within the context of Biblical Hebrew?

Obviously, there are immediate impressions that come to one when considering the act of "pitching one's tent toward" something. It seems to connote the act of establishing affinity or community with the thing towards which the tent is pitched.

In any case, I find the entire concept a fascinating one. It makes me wonder if we are conscious ourselves of exactly what constitutes the thing towards which we "pitch our tent." If we had to pick a city in the world that we felt the most affinity towards, which one would it be, and why? And what would that say about us?

I am certainly no expert, but I think it speaks of the English of the King James court. My translations show that it means "up until" or "next to", Hebrew 'ad.

[William Schryver]

I am certainly no expert, but I think it speaks of the English of the King James court. My translations show that it means "up until" or "next to", Hebrew 'ad.

Yes, that covers the word "toward," but I'm interested in the cultural origins and meaning of the entire idiomatic phrase: "pitched his tent towards." I'm persuaded that this phrase is used in Gen. 13 not because Lot literally pitched his tent outside the gates of Sodom, or with the door pointed towards Sodom, but that, rather, the phrase constitutes an idiom signifying that Lot established a cultural/economic alliance, maybe even a philosophical affinity, as it were, with Sodom. In any case, I think it is an idiom that seeks to denote affinity. Where's the young jedi Bokovoy this morning?

[Flyonthewall]

This type of thing occured in the BoM:

6 And they pitched their tents round about the temple, every man having his tent with the door thereof towards the temple, that thereby they might remain in their tents and hear the words which king Benjamin should speak unto them;

[MorningStar]

That's interesting. I attended this Native American event when I was little where I slept in a tipi. We learned that they set their tipis up so the opening at the top faces the East, allowing the sun to shine in in the morning. I wonder what the tents were like in the BOM.

It was during that same weekend my aunt gave me a Native American name - Morning Star. The term was also used in my Patriarchal blessing. That's how I chose my name here.

[Ron Beron]

Yes, that covers the word "toward," but I'm interested in the cultural origins and meaning of the entire idiomatic phrase: "pitched his tent towards." I'm persuaded that this phrase is used in Gen. 13 not because Lot literally pitched his tent outside the gates of Sodom, or with the door pointed towards Sodom, but that, rather, the phrase constitutes an idiom signifying that Lot established a cultural/economic alliance, maybe even a philosophical affinity, as it were, with Sodom. In any case, I think it is an idiom that seeks to denote affinity. Where's the young jedi Bokovoy this morning?

Ahhh....I understand. The answer is not then in Hebrew etymology but in 17th century English. G. E. W. (1981; 2003). Biblical Archaeologist: Volume 44. American Schools of Oriental Research indicates somethng of interest.

This is not an easy conclusion in light of Gen 13:12 which says Lot pitched his tent toward Sodom. Almost everyone takes that to mean

[volgadon]

Will, the phrase translated as 'towards' is )ad, in this case meaning pitched his tent as far as the boundaries of Sodom.

I agree with Ron's source that this meant that at the time he was still semi-nomadic.

[William Schryver]

Will, the phrase translated as 'towards' is )ad, in this case meaning pitched his tent as far as the boundaries of Sodom.

I agree with Ron's source that this meant that at the time he was still semi-nomadic.

I "get" that. My ... well, let's call it a "pondering" ... is whether or not the phrase "pitched his tent towards" might not have had an idiomatic meaning along the lines of "establish affinity with."

That's my only thought on the matter. There's probably no way to ever confirm it.

[Glenn101]

I "get" that. My ... well, let's call it a "pondering" ... is whether or not the phrase "pitched his tent towards" might not have had an idiomatic meaning along the lines of "establish affinity with."

That's my only thought on the matter. There's probably no way to ever confirm it.

While not implicit in the text, I also feel that there is more than one level of meaning in that phrase. In our Gosprel Doctrine class, this was contrasted with the Nephites who came to listen to King Benjamin's address who pitched their tents toward the temple. I think there is a spiritual significance to the physical act of pitching ones tent with the opening in a particular direction.

Glenn

[volgadon]

But that level of meaning simply isn't there in the Hebrew. if anything, it means he stopped short of Sodom.

What the Nephites were doing by pitching their tents towards the temple, it seems from the context, is rather different.

[kantgomo]

I think this would be a very good study, William. An excellent post.

We had a visiting pastor preach today and I wish now that I had written down what he said about the greek in John 1:1 and how it applied to "the word was with God." It didn't have what one would usually think about that passage of Scripture. When I read your post about the tent pitched toward sodom, it made me wonder if this would be the same context of which he spoke this morning. Sorry, I know this doesn't make a bit of sense without my being able to tell you what he said about the greek. Maybe I can find out.

[volgadon]

At the risk of repeating myself, the construct 'pitched his tent toward' does not appear in the Hebrew of Gen 13:12. Ad here states a boundary.

[mfbukowski]

I think this would be a very good study, William. An excellent post.

We had a visiting pastor preach today and I wish now that I had written down what he said about the greek in John 1:1 and how it applied to "the word was with God." It didn't have what one would usually think about that passage of Scripture. When I read your post about the tent pitched toward sodom, it made me wonder if this would be the same context of which he spoke this morning. Sorry, I know this doesn't make a bit of sense without my being able to tell you what he said about the greek. Maybe I can find out.

It was probably something about the passage "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us"-- the word "dwell" there if I remember correctly can actually be translated "tented"- also implying "putting on" flesh- a temporary abode or tabernacle in which he dwelt temporarily.

But that is greek and I don't think it probably has anything to do with the hebrew. But all that is a guess anyway.

[kantgomo]

It was probably something about the passage "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us"-- the word "dwell" there if I remember correctly can actually be translated "tented"- also implying "putting on" flesh- a temporary abode or tabernacle in which he dwelt temporarily.

But that is greek and I don't think it probably has anything to do with the hebrew. But all that is a guess anyway.

If I'm not mistaken, the pastor's comment had to do with the meaning of the word toward in John 1:1. I could have misheard him too. I do agree with what you've said above though.

IMO, I suspect there is probably rich symbolism here, old and new testament. There is certainly a contrast between Lot's pitching his tent toward Sodom and Abraham pitching this tent in the plain of Mamre. I think Lot did tabernacle or dwell among the Sodomites by pitching his tent toward Sodom and then later dwelling in a more permanent structure. He lost influence over his own family and escaped as one who narrowly escapes the fire of God's judgement.

[volgadon]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but a sukkah and a tent are very different things.

[Facsimile 3]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but a sukkah and a tent are very different things.

Ah man, do you have to take the fun out of everything. What's next? no Easter Bunny?

[volgadon]

Everyone knows it is really a beagle.

[kantgomo]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but a sukkah and a tent are very different things.

Sorry, I must have been editing my post when you posted this. I don't recall saying they were the same. I was thinking more along the lines of Lot being in bondage to sin and then delivered by the hand of God.

[Ron Beron]

At the risk of repeating myself, the construct 'pitched his tent toward' does not appear in the Hebrew of Gen 13:12. Ad here states a boundary.

I'm hearin' ya, but we are mixing King James vernacular with Hebrew idioms where there aren't any. A good study on this is H.L. Ginsberg's article in A Preposition of Interest to Historical Geographers Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, No. 122 (Apr., 1951), pp. 12-14 where is states simply that the preposition 'ad is equivalent to at, near, or up to NOT toward which is a usage found only in the KJV.

[mfbukowski]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but a sukkah and a tent are very different things.

Hey, what do I know, it's all Greek to me. That was John 1:14 I was talking about.

Argue it out with this guy: (one of many)

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john1.htm#foot9

9 [14] Flesh: the whole person, used probably against docetic tendencies (cf 1 John 4:2; 1:7). Made his dwelling: literally, "pitched his tent/tabernacle." Cf the tabernacle or tent of meeting that was the place of God's presence among his people (Exodus 25:8-9). The incarnate Word is the new mode of God's presence among his people. The Greek verb has the same consonants as the Aramaic word for God's presence (Shekinah). Glory: God's visible manifestation of majesty in power, which once filled the tabernacle (Exodus 40:34) and the temple (1 Kings 8:10-11, 27), is now centered in Jesus. Only Son: Greek, monogenes, but see the note on John 1:18. Grace and truth: these words may represent two Old Testament terms describing Yahweh in covenant relationship with Israel (cf Exodus 34:6), thus God's "love" and "fidelity." The Word shares Yahweh's covenant qualities.

[volgadon]

The Tabernacle with a capital t is not a sukkah but a mishkan, which stems from the root 'to dwell'. That was why I used the term sukkah rather than tabernacle.

[mfbukowski]

Everyone knows it is really a beagle.

Ah yes, a Journey. A Voyage to be precise right? As in Beagle, Voyage of?

Yes, meanings do evolve don't they?

[volgadon]

Yes, meanings do evolve don't they?

Apparently not in this case, at least none have showed it to be so.

[mfbukowski]

Apparently not in this case, at least none have showed it to be so.

I wasn't arguing because I am totally ignorant about this stuff. I know when my gun ain't loaded and this is definitely one of those times.

Like I said, it's all (Hebrew) to me.

Peace, brother!

[Benjamin McGuire]

What you might find interesting Will, is this article: