volgadon Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 In my research I remember reading that even your prophets have honored the Protestant reformers as being inspired of God. Their action against the Catholic church is further evidence of the apostasy which the prophet Mohammad first spoke of in the early part of the 7th century.We have also honoured Muhammad as being inspired of God, in fact we were pretty much the only ones to do so in the 1850s.
handys003 Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Isn't it enough to have spoken to a messenger of God?No. It is known that Lucifer can come in the form disguised as any angel. Lucifer can not disguise himself as the Son of God or God himself. I expected more from a student of the Koran.
Joseph Antley Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 As a Mormon, I am open to the idea that Muhammad received inspiration from God and that the Qur'an contains inspired writings.I do not, however, consider Muhammad a prophet of the same caliber as Adam, Enoch, Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, John the Baptist, Peter, John the Apostle, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or Thomas S. Monson. Muhammad did not have the keys of authority from God.
zerinus Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 So there are varying degrees of Christianity.I don't think you read my post very carefully. I suggest you go back and read it again. But to answer your question, No, there are not "varying degrees of Christianity;" but there are various degrees of commitment to Christ. I believe that by following the tenets of Mormonism fully, one can live a Christian life more completely than by following the tenets of any other Christian church or religion.Mormons are the truest.No, Mormonism is the only true and living Church of God in the world today. It is the only Church that has a valid priesthood. It is the only Church that has authority from God. It is the only Church that has true prophets and Apostles. It is the only Church that is led by revelation. That makes it unique, and the only true Church. There is none other like it.As another poster claimed, Mormon Christians are favored over other Christians.That is not how I would put it. I would say that Mormonism is the only true church of God in the world today. That is not to say that other Christian churches are not Christian. They are Christian churches, but they do not have the priesthood authority that the LDS Church has. That makes all the difference
CV75 Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 The questions in the title speak for themselves.Does the name "Cairbre" also have any bearing on how this discussion?
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 And both are vastly inferior to having God's own messenger and representative on the earth today.Trust me, if I had to choose between having a bishop and having a prophet, bye-bye bishop.Do you speak with your prophet directly?Didn't your prophet approve of your bishop?Do you ignore the messengers of the Bible just because they are died.Why ignore what God said by Mohammad?
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 How do you know?Because I have read the Bible and no where is the requirement of the priesthood placed on a prophet. Even the apostles of Jesus never mentioned that they were priests.
volgadon Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Do you speak with your prophet directly?I have.Didn't your prophet approve of your bishop?He did.Do you ignore the messengers of the Bible just because they are died.No. do you ignore modern day prophets because they are living? And doesn't what Muhammad says trump what prophets who lived before him said?Why ignore what God said by Mohammad?Probably for the same reasons that you ignore what God said through Joseph Smith.
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 No not at all, I didn't say that, in fact in Hebrews it speaks of Christs priesthood and why it is the only true priesthood is because He lives forever. Most Religions of the world teach that man has to do certain things to appease a God that is distant, Christianity and the Bible teaches that God came to us...in other words while you lay in submission to appease a distant God, I believe that God came to me, because He loved me that much (John 3:16) and did for me that I could never do on my own, and He saved me.Are you going to answer my question? if your not ready to, I understand. But, I can see you do not understand Christianity or what the Bible teaches. I'm not asking you to believe what I do, only to understand what I believe. I will admit I do not know a whole lot about your faith, but I'm all ears?Take careMarkYou make appeasing God through submission sound like a bad thing. But it is are form of obedience. Does your God require obedience?God loves me too. He loves all Islam because he sent us a prophet.What question are you speaking of? Please repeat it and I will try to answer it.
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 I have. (spoken to the prophet of the LDS church) He did. (approve/appoint my bishop) No. do you ignore modern day prophets because they are living? And doesn't what Muhammad says trump what prophets who lived before him said? Probably for the same reasons that you ignore what God said through Joseph Smith. If the prophet approved of your bishop then why disrespect them both by saying, "bye-bye to the bishop"? How can you say I am ignoring your prophets when I am here just now learning of the church? Mohammad took nothing away from the prophets of the bible.
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 We have also honoured Muhammad as being inspired of God, in fact we were pretty much the only ones to do so in the 1850s.That is good to know.
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 No. It is known that Lucifer can come in the form disguised as any angel. Lucifer can not disguise himself as the Son of God or God himself. I expected more from a student of the Koran.I have over estimated you as well...Lucifer's angels are not messengers from God.
consiglieri Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 First the administrators make me change my user name and now I have to tolerate you making fun of it.Tolerance is a virtue.
Calm Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 I do not know is someone has posted these yet, but if not perhaps they can help identify some differences for you if you are familiar enough with the doctrines of traditional Christianity: THE ARTICLES OF FAITHOF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTSHistory of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 As a Mormon, I am open to the idea that Muhammad received inspiration from God and that the Qur'an contains inspired writings.I do not, however, consider Muhammad a prophet of the same caliber as Adam, Enoch, Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, John the Baptist, Peter, John the Apostle, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or Thomas S. Monson. Muhammad did not have the keys of authority from God.I guess that depends on how you measure a prophet. In the case of Mohammad, God converted billions to the religion of Abraham. Has Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or Thomas S. Monson been so successful? Even if you make allowances for the difference in years between now and 632 AD and 1820 AD, respectively, I don't think the numbers will compare.So how do you put a value on a prophet? To me if one person is converted the reward is great.I only use this example to make a point, not to disparage any of your leaders."Keys of authority"?? An angelic messenger from heaven spoke to Mohammad. I suppose that messenger would be the one needing the "Keys of authority" from God.
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 Tolerance is a virtue.So is restraint. (But I'll say no more.)
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 I do not know is someone has posted these yet, but if not perhaps they can help identify some differences for you if you are familiar enough with the doctrines of traditional Christianity:Also the quickest way imo to get a firm understanding of at least the core doctrine of the LDS faith (and it will help you avoid making assumptions due to an incomplete understanding) is to read the Sunday School manual for the investigator and new convert classes. It is also going to be the adult Sunday School manual for the next year or two. You can find it here (though I don't know if it's the revised version that will be used next year or the old one that has been in use for a couple of decades): http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=ea697befabc20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=d7561b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRDTo read the whole Gospel Principles manual would likely take you a couple of hours at the most. Reading it online is very nice because of the links to the scriptures embedded in the text. I always suggest those who have little or no familiarity with our doctrine to read this as it will save them time and effort in understanding first off and second, can help them frame their questions best for LDS to understand what details they are wanting to explore or debate.Thank you. Others have also posted the articles of faith. They seem clear and distinct.Thank you for your other recommends in LDS literature. I do not arrive here without having done some research.
Calm Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Some differences between LDS Christians and most historical Christian sects (my response is in italics and bolded):1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. We believe that God the Father has a physical body as well as a spiritual body in the same way that Christ does; the Holy Ghost at this time still only possesses a spiritual body, but will in the future when his mission is complete receive a physical body as well.2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam
Calm Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Thank you for your other recommends in LDS literature. I do not arrive here without having done some research.No problem. What have you studied (still not caught up in the thread totally yet, if you have already discussed this, please ignore).
Calm Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 As another poster claimed, Mormon Christians are favored over other Christians.I would put it all are favoured by God by how they are obedient to the laws of God which they are aware of (their level of commitment to what they understand to be God's Will) as well as their faith in Christ.
Markk Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 You make appeasing God through submission sound like a bad thing. But it is are form of obedience. Does your God require obedience?God loves me too. He loves all Islam because he sent us a prophet.What question are you speaking of? Please repeat it and I will try to answer it.I'm not saying appeasing God is a bad thing, it's not really my point. What your missing is that appeasing God and obedience to Him is a heart thing, not a action thing. In other words as a Christian I believe that God saved me simply because in my heart (mind set) I asked Him too, and He saved me because He loves me, there is nothing I could do to appease a all knowing all powerful God who does not need anything. That said obedience is important, but I am obedient because I want to, not because I am required to as a means to an end. After all this, I still fall short and it is a Biblical teaching that as a sinner, one who falls short every minute of everyday, I am clothed not in my righteousness, but clothed in the righteousness of Christ. Paul says we are dung and filthy rags in our sinful state, but being clothed in the righteousness of Christ we are pure and sinless in God eyes because Christ is sinless. What MUST you do to be saved? Is there a list similar to Mormonism,s list.God loves me too. He loves all Islam because he sent us a prophet.What question are you speaking of? Please repeat it and I will try to answer it.Sure, God Loves you, we just have a different God which leads to my question. Muslims, Mormons, and Christians all have different Gods, so how as people do you know which is the true God, each respective "religions" are opposed to each other in our beliefs. Whats is the basis for your faith and what is the final court of arbitration in testing your faith...i.e feelings, scripture, the way we were raised and family pressures? Mark
Pilgrim Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 The Gospel of Jesus Christ is eternal. His priesthood power and authority are eternal. The same gospel and the same priesthood have been operational in every dispensation where the authorized servants of God (prophets) are on earth. Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, Isaiah (and all the greater and lesser prophets of the Old Testament), Jesus Christ, Peter, James, and John, and Joseph Smith - all taught the same Gospel; all had the same priesthood. So does Thomas Monson have the same priesthood and teach the same Gospel. Mohammed didn't have the priesthood and didn't teach the Gospel. That's the difference. That does not mean that he did not teach good things and do good things.
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 I don't think you read my post very carefully. I suggest you go back and read it again. But to answer your question, No, there are not "varying degrees of Christianity;" but there are various degrees of commitment to Christ. I believe that by following the tenets of Mormonism fully, one can live a Christian life more completely than by following the tenets of any other Christian church or religion.No, Mormonism is the only true and living Church of God in the world today. It is the only Church that has a valid priesthood. It is the only Church that has authority from God. It is the only Church that has true prophets and Apostles. It is the only Church that is led by revelation. That makes it unique, and the only true Church. There is none other like it.That is not how I would put it. I would say that Mormonism is the only true church of God in the world today. That is not to say that other Christian churches are not Christian. They are Christian churches, but they do not have the priesthood authority that the LDS Church has. That makes all the differenceI don't think I miss read your post. You said: ...being a Mormon means being a Christian in the truest sense of the term. The word you used was "truest". So there must be degrees of Christianity which are less true than the "truest". Would you not agree with the logic?I believe God values commitment less than he values obedience. And again there are varying degrees of obedience.If you want to believe that as a Mormon/Christian you are on top, that is up to you and between you and God, not between you and me. Go take your place in front of the line.I have confessed to understanding the claims which came through the restoration your church is based on. I am not arguing with them.You end by reasserting that the LDS church is unique because of the priesthood. So you are describing one degree of Christianity with the priesthood and another degree of Christianity without it.
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 Does the name "Cairbre" also have any bearing on how this discussion?When my first user name, "Hamas", was rejected by the administrators (I suppose it was too political), I thought to change it to "Republican" to see if their standards were equally applied. But instead I chose a Scottish name from the following website.http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/sco.phpAfter all I am just riding through.
Cairbre Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 No problem. What have you studied (still not caught up in the thread totally yet, if you have already discussed this, please ignore).Sociology, history, theology, mathematics, astronomy, geography, and I wish I could have learned more chemistry.
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