Catherine Aurelia Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 On another discussion site, a Mormon has stated that Genesis 4 teaches that Yahweh and Eve had the child, Cain, through procreation. If Mormonism's contention that Jehovah (Yahweh) is Jesus, this would mean that Jesus engaged in sexual procreation with his spirit sister, Eve. This Mormon contends that the Hebrew word "qanah" in the verse denotes sexual procreation, and that the translators know this but have chosen to translate the word another way to avoid what the verse actually says (Yahweh is the biological father of the murderer, Cain).I would like to know which Mormons here agree with this view and is it an official view of Mormonism? If so, why is it kept secret?
Zakuska Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 Im stealing a quote from another thread...According to Proverbs 8, Wisdom as a personified woman existed prior to God
Vance Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 On another discussion site, a Mormon has stated that Genesis 4 teaches that Yahweh and Eve had the child, Cain, through procreation. If Mormonism's contention that Jehovah (Yahweh) is Jesus, this would mean that Jesus engaged in sexual procreation with his spirit sister, Eve. This Mormon contends that the Hebrew word "qanah" in the verse denotes sexual procreation, and that the translators know this but have chosen to translate the word another way to avoid what the verse actually says (Yahweh is the biological father of the murderer, Cain).I would like to know which Mormons here agree with this view and is it an official view of Mormonism? If so, why is it kept secret?On another discussion site, someone who CLAIMED to be a Mormon has stated that Genesis 4 teaches that Yahweh and Eve had the child, Cain, through procreation. If Mormonism's contention that Jehovah (Yahweh) is Jesus, this would mean that Jesus engaged in sexual procreation with his spirit sister, Eve. This supposed Mormon contends that the Hebrew word "qanah" in the verse denotes sexual procreation, and that the translators know this but have chosen to translate the word another way to avoid what the verse actually says (Yahweh is the biological father of the murderer, Cain).I would like to know which Mormons here agree with this view and is it an official view of Mormonism? If so, why is it kept secret?
Catherine Aurelia Posted November 12, 2009 Author Posted November 12, 2009 Im stealing a quote from another thread...Excuse the giberish... I think those are supposed to be Hebrew letters. http://www.mormonapo...al-progression/Wisdom is said to have been procreated by God before the earth was created. Does not Eve Proclaim... I have procreadted with the Lord?Gen. 4: 1 1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.So, could you be a little more concise. I'm dealing with Genesis 4. Is or is not Yahweh the biological father of Cain, the murderer. Yes or No? In other words, even though Eve "knew" Adam and had another man child, Cain - are we to understand that it was really Yahweh who sexually fathered the child, and is this a Mormon teaching? Does Thomas Monson agree with this view. Does Dr. Peterson agree with t his view?
Catherine Aurelia Posted November 12, 2009 Author Posted November 12, 2009 On another discussion site, someone who CLAIMED to be a Mormon has stated that Genesis 4 teaches that Yahweh and Eve had the child, Cain, through procreation. If Mormonism's contention that Jehovah (Yahweh) is Jesus, this would mean that Jesus engaged in sexual procreation with his spirit sister, Eve. This supposed Mormon contends that the Hebrew word "qanah" in the verse denotes sexual procreation, and that the translators know this but have chosen to translate the word another way to avoid what the verse actually says (Yahweh is the biological father of the murderer, Cain).I would like to know which Mormons here agree with this view and is it an official view of Mormonism? If so, why is it kept secret?(fixed it for you).Your supposed "Mormon" is a nut job.Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain. . . Cain's biological father was Adam, end of story.
Zakuska Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 So, could you be a little more concise. I'm dealing with Genesis 4. Is or is not Yahweh the biological father of Cain, the murderer. Yes or No?With no DNA evidence your guess is as good as mine. In other words, even though Eve "knew" Adam and had another man child, Cain - are we to understand that it was really Yahweh who sexually fathered the child, and is this a Mormon teaching? Does Thomas Monson agree with this view. Does Dr. Peterson agree with t his view? The church has no "official" teaching on the subject that Im aware of.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 response:I agree with you. Actually, this person is a well known Mormon and also posts here and elsewhere, and claims to be educated in biblical languages. And, I know for a fact he is a Mormon - not a "claimed" Mormon.This mormon that you speak of might hold that position but it is in no way offical. THis is the 1st time I have ever heard of this postion. I suppose you will have to take it up with him/her.
bluebell Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 This mormon that you speak of might hold that position but it is in no way offical. THis is the 1st time I have ever heard of this postion. I suppose you will have to take it up with him/her.Mola is right.This mormon might believe such, but it's not taught by the church and would be rejected by almost all mormons.This is the first time i've heard of it, and like you said, the bible verse seems obvious that cain was the son of eve AND adam.Whoever the mormon is, unless he pipes up here to explain himself, it's hard to take the claim seriously.
Lightbearer Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 On another discussion site, a Mormon has stated that Genesis 4 teaches that Yahweh and Eve had the child, Cain, through procreation. If Mormonism's contention that Jehovah (Yahweh) is Jesus, this would mean that Jesus engaged in sexual procreation with his spirit sister, Eve. This Mormon contends that the Hebrew word "qanah" in the verse denotes sexual procreation, and that the translators know this but have chosen to translate the word another way to avoid what the verse actually says (Yahweh is the biological father of the murderer, Cain).I would like to know which Mormons here agree with this view and is it an official view of Mormonism? If so, why is it kept secret?NO. It is not official and nobody I know in the church teaches or believes such a thing. Adam was Cain's physical father. It does not amount to a hill of beans who may have said it, or how educated they may be, it is simply false.. CFR on who this so-called Mormon who is claimed to have said this. All of us, Cain included, are the spirit children of God the Father, that is the only sense in which God could be Cain's father. All of us are also physical children of Adam, who is a son of God.
BCSpace Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 I would like to know which Mormons here agree with this view and is it an official view of Mormonism? If so, why is it kept secret?No, this has never been the doctrine of the LDS Church. Yahweh is not the biological father of Cain nor is he the literal father of his spirit. Genesis 4:1 simply has Eve stating from whence the blessing of a child came, just as we all thank the Lord for our children. In other words, even though Eve "knew" Adam and had another man child, Cain - are we to understand that it was really Yahweh who sexually fathered the child, and is this a Mormon teaching? Does Thomas Monson agree with this view. Does Dr. Peterson agree with t his view?I'm quite certain they don't. You might want to ask the person who's telling you this for a reference.
Catherine Aurelia Posted November 12, 2009 Author Posted November 12, 2009 This mormon that you speak of might hold that position but it is in no way offical. THis is the 1st time I have ever heard of this postion. I suppose you will have to take it up with him/her.Well, when individuals represent themselves as Mormon scholars and post such statements, you can understand what would motivate people to come here and ask other Mormons if that is their belief.
Catherine Aurelia Posted November 12, 2009 Author Posted November 12, 2009 No, this has never been the doctrine of the LDS Church. Yahweh is not the biological father of Cain nor is he the literal father of his spirit. Genesis 4:1 simply has Eve stating from whence the blessing of a child came, just as we all thank the Lord for our children. I'm quite certain they don't. You might want to ask the person who's telling you this for a reference.Thank you.
Doctor Steuss Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 response:I agree with you. Actually, this person is a well known Mormon and also posts here and elsewhere, and claims to be educated in biblical languages. And, I know for a fact he is a Mormon - not a "claimed" Mormon.Well, don't keep us in suspense. Who is it?
The_Monk Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 Well, don't keep us in suspense. Who is it?Yeah, big CFR. Who is this well-known Mormon who holds himself out as a scholar?
jkfrost Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 On another discussion site, a Mormon has stated that Genesis 4 teaches that Yahweh and Eve had the child, Cain, through procreation. If Mormonism's contention that Jehovah (Yahweh) is Jesus, this would mean that Jesus engaged in sexual procreation with his spirit sister, Eve. This Mormon contends that the Hebrew word "qanah" in the verse denotes sexual procreation, and that the translators know this but have chosen to translate the word another way to avoid what the verse actually says (Yahweh is the biological father of the murderer, Cain).I would like to know which Mormons here agree with this view and is it an official view of Mormonism? If so, why is it kept secret?No - It was Adam and Eve who bore and raised Cain together. The LDS scriptures teach us this:Moses 5:16 And Adam and Eve, his wife, ceased not to call upon God. And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bare Cain, and said: I have gotten a man from the Lord; wherefore he may not reject his words. But behold, Cain hearkened not, saying: Who is the Lord that I should know him?17 And she again conceived and bare his brother Abel. And Abel hearkened unto the voice of the Lord. And Abel was a keeper or sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.This person may have misunderstood what Brigham Young taught about the name Adam and who he was and who we are a species in relationship to God our Father in Heaven.
SearchDog Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 On another discussion site, a Mormon has stated that Genesis 4 teaches that Yahweh and Eve had the child, Cain, through procreation. If Mormonism's contention that Jehovah (Yahweh) is Jesus, this would mean that Jesus engaged in sexual procreation with his spirit sister, Eve. This Mormon contends that the Hebrew word "qanah" in the verse denotes sexual procreation, and that the translators know this but have chosen to translate the word another way to avoid what the verse actually says (Yahweh is the biological father of the murderer, Cain).I would like to know which Mormons here agree with this view and is it an official view of Mormonism? If so, why is it kept secret?Wrong, wrong, wrong! The bible teaches that Jesus was the "Only begotten Son of God", the first born and the only that would be born in this manner of direct intervention; none before Him and none after Him.And this is not to say that God had sex with Mary, only that He intervened and Jesus was conceived.If a doctrine is not supported in LDS church scripture or literature, it should carry no weight in the mind of the listener or reader.
WalkerW Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 I want the link to the discussion. It sounds like something maklelan would say, but mainly to make a point. I doubt it was pushing a theological agenda if so.
WalkerW Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 The problem with CARMites is that they have no concept of textual criticism or cultural context. Maklelan is an academic who is pursuing his education at Oxford. He has a degree in Hebrew. He reads the text for what it says. The premise of your original post is flawed.On another discussion site, a Mormon has stated that Genesis 4 teaches that Yahweh and Eve had the child, Cain, through procreation.This is all he said. That is it. He didn't mention Mormonism at all. He merely stated what the original language of the text says.If Mormonism's contention that Jehovah (Yahweh) is Jesus, this would mean that Jesus engaged in sexual procreation with his spirit sister, Eve. Too bad he didn't say a thing about Mormonism. This Mormon contends that the Hebrew word "qanah" in the verse denotes sexual procreation, and that the translators know this but have chosen to translate the word another way to avoid what the verse actually says (Yahweh is the biological father of the murderer, Cain).This is what he said as well. He never mentions Mormonism.I would like to know which Mormons here agree with this view and is it an official view of Mormonism? If so, why is it kept secret?It has nothing to do with Mormon teaching. He is approaching the text as an academic, not as a Mormon trying to make everything fit Mormonism. If CARMites were pursuing actual scholarship and intellectual honesty, they would follow this pattern. Unfortunately for them, they are more worried with trying to make the Bible fit every aspect of their religious biases and not fit Mormonism. Maklelan was not teaching Mormon doctrine in his assessment of Gen. 4. Maklelan was reading the text for what it says. All his opponent could say is "This sounds funny" and quote Bill McKeever (who we all know is real scholarly...).I suggest reading these:http://maklelan.blog...r-qoneh-as.htmlhttp://maklelan.blog...an-creator.html
WalkerW Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 As maklelan said in a related conversation, Don't really care. I'm not here to defend Joseph Smith. I'm here to correct an abominable misapprehension.You must understand this if you are going to attempt discussion with maklelan.
The_Monk Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 Ah, I know what passage he's talking about. The phrase "I have gotten a man from the LORD" in Gen 4:1 has some odd Hebrew to it, namely that LORD is marked with what appears to be the definite direct object marker. Since it can't be that, it must be the preposition "with" which is why most recent translations interpolate something like "I have gotten a man with the help of the Lord.""Gotten" is Hebrew qnh. Most lexical scholarship holds that qnh means something like "to acquire/purchase" and perhaps "to create" though that's debated. Currently under debate as well is whether it can also mean something like "produce, beget, bear" which is probably where he's drawing this from. I assume Mak is tweaking noses... and the Carmelites are hungry to have more stuff to accuse us of, so of course whatever he says (or can be made to say) is Mormon Doctrine.
Vance Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 All his opponent could say is "This sounds funny" and quote Bill McKeever (who we all know is real scholarly...).
David Bokovoy Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 Wow. This is my dissertation topic! But I don't remember discussing the issue on a website. It must be Mac, he's a lunatic.
katherine the great Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 On another discussion site, a Mormon has stated that Genesis 4 teaches that Yahweh and Eve had the child, Cain, through procreation. If Mormonism's contention that Jehovah (Yahweh) is Jesus, this would mean that Jesus engaged in sexual procreation with his spirit sister, Eve. This Mormon contends that the Hebrew word "qanah" in the verse denotes sexual procreation, and that the translators know this but have chosen to translate the word another way to avoid what the verse actually says (Yahweh is the biological father of the murderer, Cain).I would like to know which Mormons here agree with this view and is it an official view of Mormonism? If so, why is it kept secret?That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. NO. I've never met any one (Mormon or otherwise) who believes such nonsense.
Catherine Aurelia Posted November 12, 2009 Author Posted November 12, 2009 That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. NO. I've never met any one (Mormon or otherwise) who believes such nonsense.Actually you have in a roundabout way - he's a Mormon poster on this board.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.