JLFuller Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I think that's quite a dangerous interpretation itself, actually. Willingness to accept alternative beliefs? Where would we be if Joseph Smith hadn't been willing to stretch? That attitude presupposes one already knows everything. I think that is folly, as would be accepting anything willy nilly.Not if they'd like to fully participate. For example, one who does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God are not baptized, nor are they supposed to participate in other ordinances. Plenty of other ways to contradict your assertion, but this one should suffice.LOAP you have been drinking the Kool Aid. Go talk to your bishop my friend. You have something to discuss.
saemo Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Not if they'd like to fully participate. For example, those who do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God are not baptized, nor are they supposed to participate in other ordinances. Plenty of other ways to contradict your assertion, but this one should suffice.Then how do you explain the very wide doctrinal beliefs that LDS have? For example, Jesus is the Son of God...what does that mean? BY taught it was very literal. Some LDS have this literal belief today, others vehemently deny it. There is no "right belief", even for Jesus is the Son of God.
LifeOnaPlate Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 LOAP you have been drinking the Kool Aid. Go talk to your bishop my friend. You have something to discuss.Then how do you explain the very wide doctrinal beliefs that LDS have? For example, Jesus is the Son of God...what does that mean? BY taught it was very literal. Some LDS have this literal belief today, others vehemently deny it. There is no "right belief", even for Jesus is the Son of God.There is some latitude, it's true, but at the heart of it a Mormon is asked whether they believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, etc. The New Testament gives no in-depth ontological descriptions.Sheez, looks like we got the angry Catholic and the zealous Mormon and neither of them like my ideas!
saemo Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Sheez, looks like we got the angry Catholic and the zealous Mormon and neither of them like my ideas!I'm not angry.There is some latitude, it's true, but at the heart of it a Mormon is asked whether they believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, etc. The New Testament gives no in-depth ontological descriptions.Your reply is an indication that orthodoxy does not exist in mormonism. All you did was state your belief. If there were an orthodox belief, it wouldn't be difficult to find a uniform belief on something so basic.
LifeOnaPlate Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I'm not angry.Your reply is an indication that orthodoxy does not exist in mormonism. All you did was state your belief. If there were an orthodox belief, it wouldn't be difficult to find a uniform belief on something so basic.Yeah, you just sounded a bit rude so I was trying to bug you a little.
LifeOnaPlate Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Your reply is an indication that orthodoxy does not exist in mormonism. All you did was state your belief. If there were an orthodox belief, it wouldn't be difficult to find a uniform belief on something so basic.Generally I think LDS put greater emphasis on the way people behave rather than the various contradictory opinions they may hold on various issues. At the core of it, though, there is a faith (and an expectation of agreeing) in certain key issues, like the existence of God, that life has a purpose, that Jesus is the Son of God, that the atonement is real, etc. That said, this selection from George MacDonald comes close to the sort of thing I believe as a Latter-day Saint:To put off obeying him till we find a credible theory concerning him, is to set aside the potion we know it our duty to drink, for the study of the various schools of therapy. You know what Christ requires of you is right--much of it at least you believe to be right, and your duty to do, whether he said it or not: do it. If you do not do what you know of the truth, I do not wonder that you seek it intellectually, for that kind of search may well be, as Milton represents it, a solace even to the fallen angels. But do not call anything that may be so gained, The Truth. How can you, not caring to be true, judge concerning him whose life was to do for very love the things you confess your duty, yet do them not? Obey the truth,I say, and let theory wait. Theory may spring from life, but never lifefrom theory. (MacDonald, "Justice," Unspoken Sermons.)
saemo Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Yeah, you just sounded a bit rude so I was trying to bug you a little. Just saying what I see.
LifeOnaPlate Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Just saying what I see.That's no excuse for being inaccurate!
saemo Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 That's no excuse for being inaccurate! I don't believe that I am.
LifeOnaPlate Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I don't believe that I am. You're being paged in another thread. http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php...60&start=60
Tsuzuki Posted May 1, 2009 Author Posted May 1, 2009 That is selective reasoning. We have prophets and apostles for that very reason.We also have the gift of the Holy Ghost for personal prophesy and discernment.
JLFuller Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 We also have the gift of the Holy Ghost for personal prophesy and discernment.Is this a Catholic thing?
mfbukowski Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 The reality is you can be excommuncated for apostasy. If you want to know where the line is, tell your bishop what you believe, and he will take care of it for you. If you think Mormons can believe anything they like, try the simple test above and see how far you get. End of story for this thread.
Tsuzuki Posted May 1, 2009 Author Posted May 1, 2009 The reality is you can be excommuncated for apostasy. If you want to know where the line is, tell your bishop what you believe, and he will take care of it for you. If you think Mormons can believe anything they like, try the simple test above and see how far you get. End of story for this thread.My bishop's a friend of mine, and we once were in an Institute class together.
mfbukowski Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 My bishop's a friend of mine, and we once were in an Institute class together.Good. Then if he knows what you believe and he's ok with it-- that's all you have to worry about. Does he know you consider yourself both Catholic and Mormon?
Tsuzuki Posted May 1, 2009 Author Posted May 1, 2009 Good. Then if he knows what you believe and he's ok with it-- that's all you have to worry about. Does he know you consider yourself both Catholic and Mormon?Yes. He himself was a convert from Catholicism.
mfbukowski Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Yes. He himself was a convert from Catholicism.Well as you know I guess, so was I. He is your bishop, and he is responsible for getting it right or wrong, so you are fine. He is your "judge" as long as he is your bishop.
talisyn Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Proof of Mormon Orthodoxy:THE ARTICLES OF FAITHOF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTSHistory of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535â??541 1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. 2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adamâ??s transgression. 3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. 4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. 6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth. 8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. 9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. 10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory. 11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. 12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. 13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paulâ??We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.Joseph Smith
Tsuzuki Posted May 1, 2009 Author Posted May 1, 2009 11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.13 ...We believe all things...
krose Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 The reality is you can be excommuncated for apostasy. If you want to know where the line is, tell your bishop what you believe, and he will take care of it for you.If you think Mormons can believe anything they like, try the simple test above and see how far you get. End of story for this thread.I've never heard of anyone being ex-ed for something they believe. It's always for actions, including attempting to spread unacceptable beliefs to other members, but not for holding such beliefs. Have you known of this happening?
katherine the great Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I've never heard of anyone being ex-ed for something they believe. It's always for actions, including attempting to spread unacceptable beliefs to other members, but not for holding such beliefs. Have you known of this happening?I agree completely. I have NEVER known of anyone who had been disciplined by the church in any way for a belief--only an action. Joseph Smith explained the following in general conference on April 8, 1843: "I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine. . . . I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be trammelled. It don't prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine."If Joseph Smith doesn't qualify as a "GA", I don't know who does.
JLFuller Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 There is some really weird stuff going on here. I mean this is REALLY weird. Apostasy type stuff.
Tsuzuki Posted May 1, 2009 Author Posted May 1, 2009 There is some really weird stuff going on here. I mean this is REALLY weird. Apostasy type stuff.Can someone be disciplined for being weird?
LifeOnaPlate Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Can someone be disciplined for being weird?Perhaps we can thank God JFuller ain't a Bishop. He'd be a very busy one, at that, weeding out all those evilthinkers!
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