How is the concept of heresy viewed in Mormonism?

[Tsuzuki]

From reading the words of early Mormon leaders, such and Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, etc., it would seem to me that Mormonism tolerates, and in some cases even encourages heretical beliefs, as long as they don't interfere with the teaching authority of the church. As such, I think the mainstream concept of heresy is alien to Mormonism.

"I did not like the old man being called up for erring in doctrine. It looks too much like the Methodist, and not like the Latter-day Saints. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be asked out of their church. I want the liberty of thinking and believing as I please. It feels so good not to be trammelled. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine."

- Joseph Smith, "History of the Church"

"It was the occupation of Jesus Christ and his Apostles to propagate the Gospel of salvation and the principles of eternal life to the world, and it is our duty and calling, as ministers of the same salvation and Gospel, to gather every item of truth and reject every error. Whether a truth be found with professed infidels, or with the Universalists, or the Church of Rome, or the Methodists, the Church of England, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Shakers, or any other of the various and numerous different sects and parties, all of whom have more or less truth, it is the business of the Elders of this Church (Jesus, their elder brother, being at their head,) to gather up all the truths in the world pertaining to life and salvation, to the Gospel we preach, to mechanism of every kind, to the sciences, and to philosophy, wherever it may be found in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, and bring it to Zion.

The people upon this earth have a great many errors, and they have also a great many truths. This statement is not only true of the nations termed civilized-those who profess to worship the true God, but is equally applicable to pagans of all countries, for in their religious rights and ceremonies may be found a great many truths which we will also gather home to Zion. All truth is for the salvation of the children of men-for their benefit and learning-for their furtherance in the principles of divine knowledge; and divine knowledge is any matter of fact-truth; and all truth pertains to divinity."

- Brigham Young, "Intelligence, Etc." (Journal of Discourses 7:283-284)

"Although I was going to say I am not a Universalist, but I am, and I am also a Presbyterian, and a Roman Catholic, and a Methodist, in short, I believe in every true principle that is imbibed by any person or sect, and reject the false. If there is any truth in heaven, earth, or hell, I want to embrace it, I care not what shape it comes in to me, who brings it, or who believes in it, whether it is popular or unpopular. Truth, eternal truth, I wish to float in and enjoy."

- John Taylor, "Motives and Feelings of the Saints, etc." (JD 1:155)

[AngelPalmoni]

"I did not like the old man being called up for erring in doctrine. It looks too much like the Methodist, and not like the Latter-day Saints. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be asked out of their church. I want the liberty of thinking and believing as I please. It feels so good not to be trammelled. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine."

- Joseph Smith, "History of the Church"

I really love this quote thank you!!!

www.angelpalmoni.com

~AngelPalmoni~

[Sargon]

It seems difficult to codify what heresy is and is not, since we struggle amongst ourselves to define what is official doctrine and what is not.

Is heresy a departure from formally adopted, official doctrines?

Is heresy a departure from mainstream beliefs?

[LifeOnaPlate]

The difficulty is noting where these men drew the line. The ecumenical statements should also be placed in context with these more exclusionary statements these leaders made. This isnâ??t to say that Latter-day Saints preach an â??anything goesâ? type of universalism; there are certain boundaries. But it is difficult to negotiate between being â??true to the faithâ? and the possibility of refusing new truths because they run counter to tradition. Moreover, accepting truth from any source any time might create believers who never make a solid commitment. So Joseph had some limits, too. For instance, he declared he had received authority directly from God, one revelation declaring that â??no one shall be appointed to receive revelations and commandmentsâ? for the Church except Joseph, until God â??appoints another in his stead.â? Joseph also taught a definite path requiring baptism by proper authority. Granted these opportunities are granted for all, even after death, but still, there were exclusions. I think the resolution in Mormonism comes in placing orthopraxy over orthodoxy. Though trying to openly teach things hat run counter to "official" or mainstream LDS doctrine can land people in hot water.

[Lightbearer]

From reading the words of early Mormon leaders, such and Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, etc., it would seem to me that Mormonism tolerates, and in some cases even encourages heretical beliefs, as long as they don't interfere with the teaching authority of the church. As such, I think the mainstream concept of heresy is alien to Mormonism.

Actually these quotes do not mean that we accept all the doctrines and beliefs of other religions. Also erring in doctrine does not necessarily make one a heretic. I think especially from the following quote opposition to the revelations of the Lord is implied. The following quotes seem to indicate that the concept of a "heresy" is a true concept:

(2 Peter 2:1-22) "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb *** speaking with manâ??s voice forbad the madness of the prophet. These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

These are some strong words from the Apostle Peter which condemn those who would teach that which is at variance with what the Lord has revealed to His servants. Likewise the Apostle Paul said:

(1 Corinthians 11:18-19) "For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

This sounds like there is a definite concept as heresy. In our dispensation the Lord made it very clear that none to were receive revelations for this Church except the Prophet. In fact just this month the First Presidency message is on the topic of teaching true doctrine: Teaching True Doctrine Hope this helps.

[katherine the great]

I think the LDS concept of heresy is very firmly connected to a person's teachings and not simply their beliefs. We are absolutely free to believe whatever we want. We are not free to teach as doctrine, anything that is contrary to the revealed word through the proper channels. I think that we are also free to express our beliefs that are contrary to official doctrine as long as we are expressing it as our personal opinion and not doctrine.

[JLFuller]

The early signs of apostasy is the willingness to accept alternative beliefs or heresies. Paul warned in Acts 20 “For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Transubstantiation is one such heresy. Homosexuality is another. Wanton abortion is another. Trinitarianism is another. These are beliefs and practices rejected by the Church. LDS people who advocate or promote them are on the road to apostasy. It isn't rocket science. Ask your bishop for details.

[Tsuzuki]

The early signs of apostasy is the willingness to accept alternative beliefs or heresies. Paul warned in Acts 20 â??For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Transubstantiation is one such heresy. Homosexuality is another. Wanton abortion is another. Trinitarianism is another. These are beliefs and practices rejected by the Church. LDS people who advocate or promote them are on the road to apostasy. It isn't rocket science. Ask your bishop for details.

"I want to say to my friends that we believe in all good.

If you can find a truth in heaven, earth or hell, it belongs to our doctrine. We believe it; it is ours; we claim it.

Is that right?

If you find an error here, I ask you to leave it, pass it by, let it alone; do not embrace it in your faith, do not practice it in your lives.

I say to all, to my brethren and sisters and to strangers, if we teach anything that is good, receive it, I beseech you.

If we have any good in our doctrine, believe it and embrace it, it will do you good.

If we have errors, do not embrace them.

I have been trying, for almost forty years, to tell the people how to be saved. I have always made this proposition to every man I have conversed with on the subject of truth and error,

'If I have errors, I will give ten errors for a truth. Do you want to trade?'

"

- Brigham Young, "Truth and Error" (JD 13:335)

[JLFuller]

"I want to say to my friends that we believe in all good.

If you can find a truth in heaven, earth or hell, it belongs to our doctrine. We believe it; it is ours; we claim it.

Is that right?

If you find an error here, I ask you to leave it, pass it by, let it alone; do not embrace it in your faith, do not practice it in your lives.

I say to all, to my brethren and sisters and to strangers, if we teach anything that is good, receive it, I beseech you.

If we have any good in our doctrine, believe it and embrace it, it will do you good.

If we have errors, do not embrace them.

I have been trying, for almost forty years, to tell the people how to be saved. I have always made this proposition to every man I have conversed with on the subject of truth and error,

'If I have errors, I will give ten errors for a truth. Do you want to trade?'

"

- Brigham Young, "Truth and Error" (JD 13:335)

I am not sure what you read in BY quote Tsuzuki, but BY is saying just what I said, that is, we seek for truth and reject heresy. The items I listed have been identified by the church as heresies. Paul cautioned us to reject them and said they were part of apostasy.

[Tsuzuki]

I am not sure what you read in BY quote Tsuzuki, but BY is saying just what I said, that is, we seek for truth and reject heresy. The items I listed have been identified by the church as heresies. Paul cautioned us to reject them and said they were part of apostasy.

I would say that the above quote, and the others I've posted, show a willingness to accept, or at least consider, alternative beliefs.

[saemo]

There would have to be a defined orthodoxy before a heresy could exist. Orthodoxy is defined as "right belief". As has already been stated, Mormons can believe whatever they like.

[Ambrose]

As has already been stated, Mormons can believe whatever they like.

I do not find this entirely accurate. Would you be so kind as to demonstrate with citation from a General Authority that Mormons may believe whatever they like?

[saemo]

I do not find this entirely accurate. Would you be so kind as to demonstrate with citation from a General Authority that Mormons may believe whatever they like?

scroll up, read Katherine's post.

[Ambrose]

scroll up, read Katherine's post.

Do you have something from a General Authority?

Katherine's post certainly did not contain anything from a GA.

[saemo]

Do you have something from a General Authority?

Katherine's post certainly did not contain anything from a GA.

Ask Katherine for it, it is her claim. I read it here often. Obviously it is LDS belief, why don't you ask LDS people to show it.

[Ambrose]

Ask Katherine for it, it is her claim. I read it here often. Obviously it is LDS belief, why don't you ask LDS people to show it.

For the same reason that I would ask of anyone here misrepresenting a Catholic teaching to provide evidence of their claim. They are not Catholic, but I expect them to post an accurate portrayal of Our Faith.

Likewise, I do not think we ought to be making claims about their faith without being able to support those claims with citation from their teaching body: the General Authorities.

[mnn727]

Can you be in error and still be a member in good standing? Yes of course

But should you embrace something you know is heretical just cause you want to or you like the idea of it? -- No way!

[saemo]

For the same reason that I would ask of anyone here misrepresenting a Catholic teaching to provide evidence of their claim. They are not Catholic, but I expect them to post an accurate portrayal of Our Faith.

Likewise, I do not think we ought to be making claims about their faith without being able to support those claims with citation from their teaching body: the General Authorities.

I am not misrepresenting if I say, "as has already been stated", and it was a LDS person doing the stating. I am stating, this is what a LDS person says is their belief. If they have misrepresented their own belief, then who am I to correct them? Doing so I would only get, "stop telling us what we believe".

[Ambrose]

I am not misrepresenting if I say, "as has already been stated", and it was a LDS person doing the stating. I am stating, this is what a LDS person says is their belief. If they have misrepresented their own belief, then who am I to correct them? Doing so I would only get, "stop telling us what we believe".

I must see it quite differently than you.

Most recently, I overheard one of the sponsors of a candidate for confirmation bungle the idea of Purgatory, teaching something more like Limbo than purgation. Who knows where that poor fellow got his information, maybe from another Catholic. However he got his information, it was wrong, and it needed correcting.

Likewise, I would be inclined to think that you are wrong, unless you can show a citation from a GA. Even if you're going off the basis of what an LDS member said, it is still without proof, and you could be in error of teaching.

[saemo]

I must see it quite differently than you.

Most recently, I overheard one of the sponsors of a candidate for confirmation bungle the idea of Purgatory, teaching something more like Limbo than purgation. Who knows where that poor fellow got his information, maybe from another Catholic. However he got his information, it was wrong, and it needed correcting.

Likewise, I would be inclined to think that you are wrong, unless you can show a citation from a GA. Even if you're going off the basis of what an LDS member said, it is still without proof, and you could be in error of teaching.

If you are approaching from that direction it's easy.

Tsuzuki, Mormonism is the heresy, not transubstantiation.

Done.

[talisyn]

If you are approaching from that direction it's easy.

Tsuzuki, Mormonism is the heresy, not transubstantiation.

Done.

[JLFuller]

I would say that the above quote, and the others I've posted, show a willingness to accept, or at least consider, alternative beliefs.

That is selective reasoning. We have prophets and apostles for that very reason.

There would have to be a defined orthodoxy before a heresy could exist. Orthodoxy is defined as "right belief". As has already been stated, Mormons can believe whatever they like.

Not if they want to be in good standing.

[LifeOnaPlate]

The early signs of apostasy is the willingness to accept alternative beliefs or heresies. Paul warned in Acts 20 “For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Transubstantiation is one such heresy. Homosexuality is another. Wanton abortion is another. Trinitarianism is another. These are beliefs and practices rejected by the Church. LDS people who advocate or promote them are on the road to apostasy. It isn't rocket science. Ask your bishop for details.

I think that's quite a dangerous interpretation itself, actually. Willingness to accept alternative beliefs? Where would we be if Joseph Smith hadn't been willing to stretch? That attitude presupposes one already knows everything. I think that is folly, as would be accepting anything willy nilly.

There would have to be a defined orthodoxy before a heresy could exist. Orthodoxy is defined as "right belief". As has already been stated, Mormons can believe whatever they like.

Not if they'd like to fully participate. For example, those who do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God are not baptized, nor are they supposed to participate in other ordinances. Plenty of other ways to contradict your assertion, but this one should suffice.

[JLFuller]

Do you have something from a General Authority?

Katherine's post certainly did not contain anything from a GA.

That is an improper reading of what Brigham Young was saying. I would not mislead you on this folks. I might on political stuff but not on this. I have been a member for 50 years and I can tell you there is no latitude for you to believe this stuff, if you want to be a member in good standing. You have misread what Brigham Young was saying.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Ask Katherine for it, it is her claim. I read it here often. Obviously it is LDS belief, why don't you ask LDS people to show it.

Not the most ecumenical approach, saemo.