revelation Posted March 21, 2009 Posted March 21, 2009 Are they then pro-Mormons?! Isn't it accurate to say that if you speak *against* something, you are, well.......for lack of better words, *against* that thing?If a person speaks against teachings they believe are false, they are: "ANTI false teachings" but at the same time, they are all-in-favor of the people who believe in the false teachings!If a person speaks against the LDS people themselves, they are ANTI LDSSomtimes is difficult to make this distinction because names do come up. Words like "you" or "he" are used. But that still doesn't mean someone is Anti mormon. Basically, God wants us to take the words of others in the kindest possible way. Sometimes names or words like "you" or "he" are used to reference what a particular person believed. But even when they are used, motives should never be judged nor disrespectful comments against that person be made.You wish to surrender? Very well, I accept in the name of our coalition against Satan.We ought to be in the Word together, examining scriptures to see what is true with the willingness to follow the truth no matter what the cost.
Zakuska Posted March 21, 2009 Posted March 21, 2009 We ought to be in the Word together, examining scriptures to see what is true with the willingness to follow the truth no matter what the cost.Ooo... Lets examine some scripture... Heres one of my Favorite Scriptures...Hel. 5: 12 12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.
Garden Girl Posted March 21, 2009 Posted March 21, 2009 When a person is concerned about another and does truly care about them, they will be concerned with the false teachings people believe in, especially if believing in those teachings is harmful or fatal.Hello revelation...I have seen many "anti-Mormon" writings describing our views and teachings in a way that is not correct, misinterprets, or misrepresents... i.e., "false teachings" from the other direction, but spewed out as if they were actually correct, thereby misleading readers -- LDS and non -- this type of concern I can do without. Oh, and BTW, I believe it was you that kept refering to "LDS and Christians." I AM LDS and we ARE Christian... Garden Girl
Daniel Peterson Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Either Mormonism's teachings or Christianity's teachings are a cancer fatal to the soul.Nonsense. Mormonism is a form of Christianity.Your comment is like saying "Either squirrels or mammals are hiding all the acorns in the forest."You think my faith is a cancer, but I don't return the insult. I think there's a huge amount of good in Catholic, Orthodox, and, yes, even Protestant forms of Christianity.
PacMan Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Either Mormonism's teachings or Christianity's teachings are a cancer fatal to the soul. The soul of LDS and Christians alike. Shouldn't we all then be on the same side, working together to rid us all of false teaching so that we can be united just as God wants? Aren't we all in the battle against Satan together? Isn't truth of utmost and vital importance for all of us rather than clinging to false teachings that could destroy our souls for all eternity?Your provocative approach of being philosophical for the simple purpose of seeming philosophical is rather unsubstantive. But I invite you to drop your false teachings, and thus join the brigade against Satan.
revelation Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Hello revelation...I have seen many "anti-Mormon" writings describing our views and teachings in a way that is not correct, misinterprets, or misrepresents... i.e., "false teachings" from the other direction, but spewed out as if they were actually correct, thereby misleading readers -- LDS and non -- this type of concern I can do without. Garden GirlLike I said earlier, certainly it's possible that there are "false teachings about the LDS Church and it's History" out there. But that doesn't mean that everything out there that incorrectly portrays LDS teachings is done with Malicious intent. Don't judge motives. It also doesn' t mean that everything out there that you feel are "lie's" about LDS teachings are in reality lie's. Maybe God has revealed something to them about false LDS teachings and you have believed the lie that they are lying. Don't judge motives.Oh, and BTW, I believe it was you that kept refering to "LDS and Christians." I AM LDS and we ARE Christian... You believe you are a Christian, we believe the LDS are not Christian. But we aren't judging motives.
revelation Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Nonsense. Mormonism is a form of Christianity.Your comment is like saying "Either squirrels or mammals are hiding all the acorns in the forest."You think my faith is a cancer, but I don't return the insult. I think there's a huge amount of good in Catholic, Orthodox, and, yes, even Protestant forms of Christianity.If you believed my faith was a cancer and didn't tell me, you wouldn't be a follower of Christ/God. It's never an insult to the humble. Jesus told the pharisees that their teachings were false.
RubyHunter Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I think the fact we don't tell you that your beliefs are cancer is just a way of being nice.If we wanted to express how you are doing it all wrong... we could. But THAT wouldn't be christlike.Also, people calling themselves humble.... usually aren't.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 If you believed my faith was a cancer and didn't tell me, you wouldn't be a follower of Christ/God. It's never an insult to the humble. Jesus told the pharisees that their teachings were false.Acutally this just shows the weakness of your position. If your's was the true and correct way, why not just resort to teaching things the way you see them instead of trying to tear down some one elses beleif in something? I mean if it is true then it shouldn't matter what I believe.Now Im not accusing you of anything. I am speaking in general terms here.
Daniel Peterson Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 You believe you are a Christian, we believe the LDS are not Christian. But we aren't judging motives.You -- whoever "you" are -- are welcome to believe that stars are God's daisy chain, that we're not Christian, and that leprechauns live under your kitchen sink, but you would have a very difficult time mounting a coherent case to demonstrate these claims.I wrote a book, some years back, entitled Offenders for a Word: How Anti-Mormons Play Word Games to Attack the Latter-day Saints. With extensive documentation, I demonstrated that no coherent argument can be formulated to expel Mormons from Christendom that doesn't also expel other groups (e.g., Martin Luther, the Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, all Christians prior to the Council of Nicaea) from Christendom at the same time.I challenge you to rebut the argument of Offenders for a Word. To this day, nobody's made so much as a serious attempt to do that.
Daniel Peterson Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 If you believed my faith was a cancer and didn't tell me, you wouldn't be a follower of Christ/God. It's never an insult to the humble. Jesus told the pharisees that their teachings were false.Your beliefs are partially false, of course, but I don't tell you that your faith is a cancer because I don't believe that your faith is a cancer. My faith is not only more accurate but more open and generous than yours is.Life is good.
MatthewG Posted March 22, 2009 Author Posted March 22, 2009 I have an idea. Why doesn't someone with a bit more tact and civility, than me, invite her back, start another thread, and we shut this pile of poop down.
Hoops22 Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I have an idea. Why doesn't someone with a bit more tact and civility, than me, invite her back,Cause he/she hasn't joined the board yet.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Cause he/she hasn't joined the board yet. She posted 2 times then left.
mpschmitt Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I've run across her before. She wrote for the BYU student newspaper when I was first an undergraduate at BYU.I have her book The Mormon Mirage. It's not very good, but it's several cuts above the average evangelical anti-Mormon diatribe.I've always wondered why anti-Mormon books tend to have titles like that?("Maze of Mormonism", "The Mormon Facade", "Smoke and Mirrors", "Shadow or Reality?")I've always felt that the Church is fairly transparent about what it teaches. It just happens to disagree with Nicene Christianity, but we've always been fairly up front about that.They make it sound like we're some con man out on the street corner playing some elaborately orchestrated shell game.It's not like someone is going to join the Church and then, only after years of painstakingly making their way into the deep inner circle of those really (really really) in the know, suddenly discover that the Church really, (really, really) worships Boltar from the Planet Fong. I mean seriously, what is the Mirage here?
revelation Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I think the fact we don't tell you that your beliefs are cancer is just a way of being nice. Would it be nice if your doctor never told you that you had cancer and you died even though there was a 100% cure for your cancer?If we wanted to express how you are doing it all wrong... we could. But THAT wouldn't be christlike. It is very much Christlike:Mark 12:38 "As he taught, Jesus said, "Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted in the marketplaces,"Mathew 11:21 "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes"Mathew 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."Mathew 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.Mathew 23:16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'"Mathew 23:23 ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spicesâ??mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the lawâ??justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."Mathew 23:25 ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence."Mathew 23:27 ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean." Etc.Also, people calling themselves humble.... usually aren't. Yes and I was refering to the Pharisees when I made that comment and was trying to point out that the pharisees, if they were truly humble, would have listened to Jesus when he told them their beliefs were wrong, instead they were so filled with pride they instead were insulted by what Jesus said.
revelation Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Acutally this just shows the weakness of your position. If your's was the true and correct way, why not just resort to teaching things the way you see them instead of trying to tear down some one elses beleif in something? I mean if it is true then it shouldn't matter what I believe.Now Im not accusing you of anything. I am speaking in general terms here. But I do teach things the way I see them, you should know that. I never speak disrespectfully towards any LDS person. I try to treat every LDS person as if they are better than myself. If I accidentally mess up, I apologize. But a false teaching doesn't have feelings because it isn't a person. And every bible believer hates false teaching because it harms people who believe in it.
revelation Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 You -- whoever "you" are -- are welcome to believe that stars are God's daisy chain, that we're not Christian, and that leprechauns live under your kitchen sink, but you would have a very difficult time mounting a coherent case to demonstrate these claims.I wrote a book, some years back, entitled Offenders for a Word: How Anti-Mormons Play Word Games to Attack the Latter-day Saints. With extensive documentation, I demonstrated that no coherent argument can be formulated to expel Mormons from Christendom that doesn't also expel other groups (e.g., Martin Luther, the Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, all Christians prior to the Council of Nicaea) from Christendom at the same time.I challenge you to rebut the argument of Offenders for a Word. To this day, nobody's made so much as a serious attempt to do that.I havn't read the book but if you would like to pass a complimentary copy my way, I would be sure to read it. If you want to continue this discussion, perhaps start another thread. There is one thing that excludes people from Christendom. That is unbelief. That said, we would classify Mormons as unbelievers. Mormons have faith, but not a saving faith.
Daniel Peterson Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Would it be nice if your doctor never told you that you had cancer and you died even though there was a 100% cure for your cancer?Would it be nice if your doctor told you that you had cancer when you didn't, and put you through a rigorous program of quack treatments to cure a non-existent disease, and if that regimen of treatment ruined your life and ultimately killed you?
revelation Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Your beliefs are partially false, of course, but I don't tell you that your faith is a cancer because I don't believe that your faith is a cancer. That's fair. But I do believe that LDS teachings are a cancer fatal to the souls of valuable and precious LDS souls. Wouldnt it then be wise to see if I am right just incase I am right?My faith is not only more accurate but more open and generous than yours is.Life is good. I beg to differ. Respectfully of course.
revelation Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Would it be nice if your doctor told you that you had cancer when you didn't, and put you through a rigorous program of quack treatments to cure a non-existent disease, and if that regimen of treatment ruined your life and ultimately killed you?All you need to do is listen and examine what we believe. Nothing painful about that, it's not a quack treatment. In order to protect yourself from being killed by the treatment, trust God's word above all else. He won't harm you and you know that!
Daniel Peterson Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I know what fundamentalist Protestants believe.
revelation Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 I know what fundamentalist Protestants believe.Start a thread and tell me
Daniel Peterson Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 Start a thread and tell meIf you yourself don't know, read a book and learn.
Eguzkitanedan Posted March 22, 2009 Posted March 22, 2009 If you yourself don't know, read a book and learn.FYI Revelation is a WELS Lutheran-- and they believe that they're the true Lutherans and they're forbidden to pray with those who aren't members of their denomination. I've never met a fundamentalist Protestant who wasn't willing to pray any time, with any one, as long as it was in Jesus' name. I give them the cred they deserve on that score.
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